[News] Key workers (?) and their rate of pay.

[drew]

Pretty much...



....this.

Additionally:

1) Do you know the difference in pay and competence between HR Managers in your company and the NHS?
2) Being legally compliant means at the minimum making policy, keeping information up to date and dealing with complaints and incidents. so
3) How many doctors and nurses do you think you can additionally take on by removing one Grade 4 position when 2) above still needs to be done by someone?

This. The popular media frequently used to bemoan the amount of managers in the NHS and the mud stuck.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/health-and-social-care-bill/mythbusters/nhs-managers

 

[Lindfield by the Pond]

This.

There are ways to rig the game, of course, but you alluded to that.

Regarding supply and demand, I agree with your point about why nurses are paid less than footballers, but we do still have a nurse shortage, and one way to address this would be to pay them more.

The issue is that the tax payer pays the nurses, and governments don't want to increase taxes. I'd be happy to pay 1p income tax, if it all went into the NHS...almost like National Insurance.....or road tax.....

 

[Diablo]

Train Drivers on average £50k and Bus Drivers less than £30k doesn`t make sense surely it is easier to drive train ,no traffic to deal with and on tracks !!

 

[Papak]

In an attempt to open this thread out into a proper debate:

My wife and I now work broadly similar jobs. I'm in the private sector, my wife is in the NHS. I'm a Product Manager for a software product, she's a "Project Coordinator" managing public health research projects (at the moment, that means Covid research).

I know which job I consider to be more important to society ... and it's not mine. And yet my salary is of the order of 40% more than hers. Part of that is experience, part of it is private vs public, but I suspect a big whack of it is quite simply that the NHS benchmarking doesn't pay (pun unintended) enough attention to what the private sector pays for roughly equivalent jobs - it instead focuses heavily on trying to hit equivalence targets within the NHS, and that sometimes misses the point because of the criteria they use for setting the bands (things like whether or not it's a line management role)

Apologies, I'm grunching but those 2 jobs do not sound similar in terms of title to me.

Also, it is not necessarily about take home pay there are other factors such as pension contribution, private healthcare etc. that combine to make a total benefits package.

 

[beorhthelm]

The issue is that the tax payer pays the nurses, and governments don't want to increase taxes. I'd be happy to pay 1p income tax, if it all went into the NHS...almost like National Insurance.....or road tax.....

the real issue is we take this at face value and dont ask enough about where spending goes. 7% rise in health budget, 1% rise in nurse pay. where is the money being spent then?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Train Drivers on average £50k and Bus Drivers less than £30k doesn`t make sense surely it is easier to drive train ,no traffic to deal with and on tracks !!

If [MENTION=35289]Baker lite[/MENTION] can drive a train then surely any idiot can?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

the real issue is we take this at face value and dont ask enough about where spending goes.

To be fair some MPs are indeed asking the government where the money is going; they seem quite reluctant to say though.

 

[Questions]

The biggest problem is that as soon as the shit hits the fan budgets for social services are the first things cut there is literally zero wiggle room within a young person’s budget to pay for someone’s wages let alone an acceptable one

There needs to be reset on those lower wages for nurses and carers etc. I feel powerless nowadays to know what I can do to see a decent minimum wage in these areas.

 

[drew]

Apologies, I'm grunching but those 2 jobs do not sound similar in terms of title to me.

Also, it is not necessarily about take home pay there are other factors such as pension contribution, private healthcare etc. that combine to make a total benefits package.

Pensions are important but NHS pension scheme has been changed several times and as I'm sure you can guess, each change is to the detriment of the members. Retirement dates extended and employee contributions increased.

In terms of wages, my wife is a band 8 matron in charge of 3 wards, including the speciality of ICU, her primary responsibility. She has about 120 staff. She earns just slightly more than I did when I left the private sector (insurance in London) about 14 years ago. I was an account and claims handler with no staff under me. The jobs are chalk and cheese but the responsibility my wife has is infinitely more than what I had.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The issue is that the tax payer pays the nurses, and governments don't want to increase taxes. I'd be happy to pay 1p income tax, if it all went into the NHS...almost like National Insurance.....or road tax.....

In Germany your healthcare is a separate ring-fenced tax (as an aside it’s 14% of your salary with 7% from you and 7% your employer, If you earn above a certain amount you can opt out and get private insurance as it’s cheaper) Where this gets spent is also reasonably transparent. I feel this would be a good idea in the U.K. if you want to start adding 1p or whatever. At the moment most people would worry it would end up somewhere else other than the NHS.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I worked for companies of 20000+ employees. There were HR policies but none of the jobs mentioned. Out of interest why can private sector companies work in this way but the NHS can’t ?

Really? Can you name a couple of such companies?

 

[portslade seagull]

To be fair some MPs are indeed asking the government where the money is going; they seem quite reluctant to say though.

You need to ask the individual NHS trusts

 

[albionfan37]

There needs to be reset on those lower wages for nurses and carers etc. I feel powerless nowadays to know what I can do to see a decent minimum wage in these areas.

It’s not your responsibility mate just those with the hollow promises and the “I’m alright jack” brigade

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Really? Can you name a couple of such companies?

If I had wanted to do that I would have done so

 

[Doonhamer7]

I also work for a company with 25,000+ employees and no equality and diversity people at all its part of the HR role. Central and local govt and quangos all have to many of these unneeded roles

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I also work for a company with 25,000+ employees and no equality and diversity people at all its part of the HR role. Central and local govt and quangos all have to many of these unneeded roles

If I had wanted to do that I would have done so

Just curious. My experience is quite different. My last client which has 100000 global employees has 4 separate councils, each for a different diversity. These are each chaired by a member of the executive board. I’m not as familiar with my current client (75000) but a quick Google shows there’s a Head of Inclusion and Diversity. What I can say is both embed inclusion and diversity in their values, and commit significant resource i.e. it seems to be more than “an HR policy.” Both are hugely successful private companies.....if it’s needed and valuable for them, I’d say the same for the NHS?

 

[RossyG]

Needed or they just have it?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The issue is that the tax payer pays the nurses, and governments don't want to increase taxes. I'd be happy to pay 1p income tax, if it all went into the NHS...almost like National Insurance.....or road tax.....

I'm very much against that. It gives scope for people with private health care to say 'I'm not paying that 1p because I don't use the NHS'. Call me a socialist

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Needed or they just have it?

Take my first example, 4 separate councils...I don’t think the executive board members chair these for fun. But, I wasn’t party to the setting up of the councils and roles so I don’t know; maybe it’s just for shits and giggles? Or more likely they see the value and benefit in being a diverse, inclusive and equal employer and sincerely commit resources accordingly?

 

[Yoda]

I worked for companies of 20000+ employees. There were HR policies but none of the jobs mentioned. Out of interest why can private sector companies work in this way but the NHS can’t ?

I also work for a company with 25,000+ employees and no equality and diversity people at all its part of the HR role. Central and local govt and quangos all have to many of these unneeded roles

Really? How come your companies with over 20,000 & 25,000 get away with not having to have one, yet my local athletics club (which I am still involved with behind the scenes) with only over 400 members max, HAS to have at least one person dedicated to such a role by law?