[News] Key workers (?) and their rate of pay.

[Blue3]

Every country that follows Marx's principles ends up with gulags, liquidations, and huge economic gulfs between the ruling elite and the terrorised masses.

For one thing, who decides what an individual's needs are? Is it my need to have a Brighton season ticket? Is it my need to have that yummy packet of chocolate digestives?

And when the shelves were stripped bare by panic-buyers at the start of the pandemic, it was the private companies (Sainsbury's, Tesco etc) who rose to the challenge and made sure that goods were distributed and everyone had access.

I am not advocating Marxisum however in its defence it's never been carried through

With regards to free choice it should be available to all however currently it isn't as 90% own 10%

Reference the panic buying and the role of private companies remember it was some of those who are the lowest paid who picked the produce, drove it to the shops, put it on the shelves, cleaned the whooping trolleys and sat at the checkouts

 

[portslade seagull]

Yes, good point.

The problem the public sector has is marrying supply and demand with the knowledge that the money for it comes from taxing other workers.

With the NHS, my advice would be to pay the doctors, nurses, porters etc more by using the money saved by cutting non-jobs such as these...

View attachment 134708

Have said this b4, my wife's brother took a job within the NHS as a procurement manager for the south east which paid him £500 a day. He found numerous ways of saving money but when put to the heads of departments were always rejected because they preferred their own suppliers. He found that one dept was paying £7.50 for a pair of surgical gloves whilst another were buying them from another supplier for £2.50. He identified 11m pounds of realistic savings and less than 10% were accepted. The waste in the NHS is enormous

 

[Blue3]

Which one was he again...?

Karl Marx had a sister who invented the starting pistol so often forgotten is Onya Marx

 

[RossyG]

I am not advocating Marxisum however in its defence it's never been carried through

With regards to free choice it should be available to all however currently it isn't as 90% own 10%

Reference the panic buying and the role of private companies remember it was some of those who are the lowest paid who picked the produce, drove it to the shops, put it on the shelves, cleaned the whooping trolleys and sat at the checkouts

I used to be a shop steward at USDAW when I worked at Tesco. They’re probably not as badly paid as you might think, but obviously every little helps (see what I did there?).

I wish they’d got more recognition from those clapping the NHS, but I imagine a lot were personally thanked and praised by customers. It’s hard to reach those people anyway. Tax them too much and they’ll just jet off elsewhere.

Companies like Amazon should pay their tax, though. They really do take the piss.

10% own 90% but I think on this country at least most people aren’t denied much. They won’t have Ferraris but they’ll have cars. They won’t have mansions in St George’s Hills but they’ll have a house or flat.

I think to an extend, worrying about the very top can be a blind alley. As long as the people at the bottom are comfortable then it doesn’t matter if the Kardashians and Hilton’s have billions. That’s where the focus should be.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Yes, good point.

The problem the public sector has is marrying supply and demand with the knowledge that the money for it comes from taxing other workers.

With the NHS, my advice would be to pay the doctors, nurses, porters etc more by using the money saved by cutting non-jobs such as these...

View attachment 134708

They aren't non-jobs. The NHS has a responsibility under the Equality Act 2010 to:

eliminate discrimination, harassment and victimisation
promote equality of opportunity
foster good relations between people from different groups

In a small firm or single office that can be done with an HR policy. In a huge NHS Trust? Not so much. Unless you think it should be absorbed into an HR function who should really be hiring, evaluating and paying doctors, nurses, porters etc.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

They aren't non-jobs. The NHS has a responsibility under the Equality Act 2010 to:

eliminate discrimination, harassment and victimisation
promote equality of opportunity
foster good relations between people from different groups

In a small firm or single office that can be done with an HR policy. In a huge NHS Trust? Not so much. Unless you think it should be absorbed into an HR function who should really be hiring, evaluating and paying doctors, nurses, porters etc.

I worked for companies of 20000+ employees. There were HR policies but none of the jobs mentioned. Out of interest why can private sector companies work in this way but the NHS can’t ?

 

[KZNSeagull]

I used to be a shop steward at USDAW when I worked at Tesco. They’re probably not as badly paid as you might think, but obviously every little helps (see what I did there?).

I wish they’d got more recognition from those clapping the NHS, but I imagine a lot were personally thanked and praised by customers. It’s hard to reach those people anyway. Tax them too much and they’ll just jet off elsewhere.

Companies like Amazon should pay their tax, though. They really do take the piss.

10% own 90% but I think on this country at least most people aren’t denied much. They won’t have Ferraris but they’ll have cars. They won’t have mansions in St George’s Hills but they’ll have a house or flat.

I think to an extend, worrying about the very top can be a blind alley. As long as the people at the bottom are comfortable then it doesn’t matter if the Kardashians and Hilton’s have billions. That’s where the focus should be.

£9.30 an hour at Tesco. Time and a quarter on Sundays and bank holidays. No annual profit sharing bonus anymore.

 

[Questions]

I work with young people with autism and other learning disabilities and it’s safe to say that you don’t do it to get rich!

No you don’t but what you earn should be fair. It rarely is.

 

[drew]

I worked for companies of 20000+ employees. There were HR policies but none of the jobs mentioned. Out of interest why can private sector companies work in this way but the NHS can’t ?

Are you saying that those companies ignored those areas or that they were just absorbed into HR?

As someone else said, they aren't non jobs, failure to comply with the law can result in a host of lawsuits and that can cost the various trusts money. Also, in those firms that you worked for with 20,000 + employees did they have as many diverse roles and disciplines that the average NHS trust has to deal with.

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

A mate of mine is a key worker as a self employed locksmith he earns a decent wage.

 

[dazzer6666]

Are you saying that those companies ignored those areas or that they were just absorbed into HR?

As someone else said, they aren't non jobs, failure to comply with the law can result in a host of lawsuits and that can cost the various trusts money. Also, in those firms that you worked for with 20,000 + employees did they have as many diverse roles and disciplines that the average NHS trust has to deal with.

Not usually absorbed HR, more the day to day responsibility of anyone in the organisation in a leadership capacity in my experience. Part and parcel of the job, aligned to clear policies (owned by HR) and often with targets.

 

[Audax]

I worked for companies of 20000+ employees. There were HR policies but none of the jobs mentioned. Out of interest why can private sector companies work in this way but the NHS can’t ?

Where I work, we've got roughly 250 employees. We have a diversity manager. And there is value in having someone like that - there's increasing evidence out there that companies who get this stuff right will, in the long run, outperform those who don't.

Edit: having said that, those salaries are a perfect example of what I was saying in an earlier post (#3) about the NHS pay bands being structured all wrong-headed. The ones quoting salaries £38k+ will all be Band 7 roles. They'll be Band 7 because they're team management roles, not because the responsibilities and skills required justify it. My Mrs, in her highly important Covid research project coordination role is Band 6.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Are you saying that those companies ignored those areas or that they were just absorbed into HR?

As someone else said, they aren't non jobs, failure to comply with the law can result in a host of lawsuits and that can cost the various trusts money. Also, in those firms that you worked for with 20,000 + employees did they have as many diverse roles and disciplines that the average NHS trust has to deal with.

There were none of the jobs mentioned in the link so presumably monitoring was an HR function. Difficult to compare diversity of disciplines but it is fair to say the workforce was as diverse at some of my employers and a lot less so at others. I’m just genuinely interested to know the reason the NHS needs these full time jobs in order to comply with the law when in many other industries it is not necessary. I’m not expressing an opinion on these jobs, just curious.

Edit; see my reply to Audax (below) as well

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Where I work, we've got roughly 250 employees. We have a diversity manager. And there is value in having someone like that - there's increasing evidence out there that companies who get this stuff right will, in the long run, outperform those who don't.

Edit: having said that, those salaries are a perfect example of what I was saying in an earlier post (#3) about the NHS pay bands being structured all wrong-headed. The ones quoting salaries £38k+ will all be Band 7 roles. They'll be Band 7 because they're team management roles, not because the responsibilities and skills required justify it. My Mrs, in her highly important Covid research project coordination role is Band 6.

Interesting. It’s quite possible that I’m just a bit out of date on this. I haven’t worked for a large company in the U.K. for around 10 years.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I worked for companies of 20000+ employees. There were HR policies but none of the jobs mentioned. Out of interest why can private sector companies work in this way but the NHS can’t ?

Pretty much...

Are you saying that those companies ignored those areas or that they were just absorbed into HR?

As someone else said, they aren't non jobs, failure to comply with the law can result in a host of lawsuits and that can cost the various trusts money. Also, in those firms that you worked for with 20,000 + employees did they have as many diverse roles and disciplines that the average NHS trust has to deal with.

....this.

Additionally:

1) Do you know the difference in pay and competence between HR Managers in your company and the NHS?
2) Being legally compliant means at the minimum making policy, keeping information up to date and dealing with complaints and incidents. so
3) How many doctors and nurses do you think you can additionally take on by removing one Grade 4 position when 2) above still needs to be done by someone?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Pretty much...



....this.

Additionally:

1) Do you know the difference in pay and competence between HR Managers in your company and the NHS?
2) Being legally compliant means at the minimum making policy, keeping information up to date and dealing with complaints and incidents. so
3) How many doctors and nurses do you think you can additionally take on by removing one Grade 4 position when 2) above still needs to be done by someone?

I wasn’t questioning the need to be legally compliant just the need to be specialist in these particular areas. Answered elsewhere anyway

 

[dazzer6666]

Pretty much...



....this.

Additionally:

1) Do you know the difference in pay and competence between HR Managers in your company and the NHS?
2) Being legally compliant means at the minimum making policy, keeping information up to date and dealing with complaints and incidents. so
3) How many doctors and nurses do you think you can additionally take on by removing one Grade 4 position when 2) above still needs to be done by someone?

Re 1), not much even in FS........HR management knowledge, skills and experience is transferable between industries and public/private sector so there is less disparity in pay in comparable roles. It’s an extension of the ‘overpaid management’ or administrators noise you hear about the NHS all the time........

Re 2), in my industry most complaints and grievances are heard by (independent) management outside of HR - again, part of the job.

In my last job, one member of the functional Executive Committee was the designated D&I head for the function (not his day job), and he was supported by a wider committee. HR owned the final policies and provided relevant data but management and implementation of the staff to policy was our job.

 

[albionfan37]

No you don’t but what you earn should be fair. It rarely is.

The biggest problem is that as soon as the shit hits the fan budgets for social services are the first things cut there is literally zero wiggle room within a young person’s budget to pay for someone’s wages let alone an acceptable one

 

[Guinness Boy]

Re 1), not much even in FS........HR management knowledge, skills and experience is transferable between industries and public/private sector so there is less disparity in pay in comparable roles. It’s an extension of the ‘overpaid management’ or administrators noise you hear about the NHS all the time........

Re 2), in my industry most complaints and grievances are heard by (independent) management outside of HR - again, part of the job.

In my last job, one member of the functional Executive Committee was the designated D&I head for the function (not his day job), and he was supported by a wider committee. HR owned the final policies and provided relevant data but management and implementation of the staff to policy was our job.

My guess would be that there is probably more of a diverse workforce in NHS Trusts than Financial Services (I work as a supplier in the latter) at least in trusts in big cities. And, whatever we old dinosaurs think, the issues are getting bigger. Ten years ago a toilet was a toilet. Now it's a potential gender identification issue (yes, I know).

But even if you do spread the love (and, again, FS doesn't have a fantastic record in managing people's workloads) rather than employ a permanent position you're not saving anywhere near enough to hire one doctor, let alone a squadron of doctors, nurses and porters so [MENTION=30583]RossyG[/MENTION] 's original point is still nonsense.

 

[dazzer6666]

My guess would be that there is probably more of a diverse workforce in NHS Trusts than Financial Services (I work as a supplier in the latter) at least in trusts in big cities. And, whatever we old dinosaurs think, the issues are getting bigger. Ten years ago a toilet was a toilet. Now it's a potential gender identification issue (yes, I know).

But even if you do spread the love (and, again, FS doesn't have a fantastic record in managing people's workloads) rather than employ a permanent position you're not saving anywhere near enough to hire one doctor, let alone a squadron of doctors, nurses and porters so [MENTION=30583]RossyG[/MENTION] 's original point is still nonsense.

You’d probably be surprised at the data and targets we had.........and the almost-threatening push to make sure those (informal, obviously) quotas were filled.......