Keeper HOOFING it

[Aadam]

I don't think it's england fans wanting the passing style. I think large portions of them prefer the more industrial English style. I think it's brighton, arsenal, swansea fans on the whole, with sprinklings from each club wanting the more advanced, spanish/german/etc passing style.

I also think the excuse of not enough time to train them isn't going to go away. National coaches don't have that time that club coaches have. Roy had from the end of the season, he had the full pre-tournament time to dill the players in the passing style we want. That's all he ever would have had. With friendlies and qualifiers so few and far between, players will come to england for a couple of training sessions, a match, then it's back to club level, back to doing exactly what they do with their clubs, forgetting everything they did with england, then it's starting again when they go back for the next international a couple of months later. The most prolonged time an England manager will have with his squad is from the end of the season until they are eliminated from that summer's tournament. Roy had that.

The problem is that the players that need to don't generally play that passing/comfort in possession style at club levels that needs to change. We need more swanseas, more arsenals, more brightons at all levels (and I don't mean to suggest brighton are as good at it as arsenal or swansea, but as an example of a team trying to play it and improve at it).

You are aware that Man City, Chelsea and even Spurs had a better passing accuracy than Arsenal, right? Yet their play is more direct that Arsenal or Swansea. There is a big difference between being able to pass to feet, and playing attractive, attacking, penetrative football.

All too often last season Swansea and Arsenal were just that. They could pass and look pretty, but when it came to cutting edge, they didn't have enough. The same could be said for Brighton in many ways. It's one thing being able to pass between defence and midfield and look pretty, but it's quite another being able to tear teams apart, score goals and WIN games.

I agree with most, we need more onus to be put on technical ability for our younger players. However, I don't think we need to start slowing games down by passing to death. English leagues are renowned for their fast, attacking football. I think this needs to continue into the national team, personally.

 

[Acker79]

You are aware that Man City, Chelsea and even Spurs had a better passing accuracy than Arsenal, right? Yet their play is more direct that Arsenal or Swansea. There is a big difference between being able to pass to feet, and playing attractive, attacking, penetrative football.

If I attempt one pass, and manage to find a team mate, that is 100% passing accuracy. That Man City, Chelsea and Spurs have a greater pass accuracy isn't important in itself.

Yes, all three were above Swansea, but all three are established premier league teams with champions league experience, as opposed to swansea who were in their first season in the premier league with a lot of championship players stepping up a league. Comparing like to like, Arsenal won more games than two of the three teams you list, scoring more goals than both of them, which suggests the more direct play of spurs and chelsea is less effective than the more patient build up of arsenal.


Please note, I didn't say to slow it down (in fact, part of our problem was slow lumbering counter attacks that gave our opponents time to get back and defend, conversely another problem was Gerrard constantly playing the long ball).

What we need is to be comfortable in possession and passing the ball around. This doesn't preclude penetrative football, it doesn't preclude fast paced attacks. We weren't comfortable on the ball so we easily lost possession, which put us under pressure. Teams can't attack every minute of every game so we need to be comfortable and patient at times, as well as aggressive and speedy at other times. All of this comes from comfort on the ball, and an ability to pass the ball around.

Yes other teams can be listed, but I didn't think it would make an interesting post if half of it is a list of teams that play passing football whether all the time or in significant patches in games, because you can probably find moments in most teams matches where they've had some good passing moments with some penetration.

 

[Aadam]

If I attempt one pass, and manage to find a team mate, that is 100% passing accuracy. That Man City, Chelsea and Spurs have a greater pass accuracy isn't important in itself.

Yes, all three were above Swansea, but all three are established premier league teams with champions league experience, as opposed to swansea who were in their first season in the premier league with a lot of championship players stepping up a league. Comparing like to like, Arsenal won more games than two of the three teams you list, scoring more goals than both of them, which suggests the more direct play of spurs and chelsea is less effective than the more patient build up of arsenal.


Please note, I didn't say to slow it down (in fact, part of our problem was slow lumbering counter attacks that gave our opponents time to get back and defend, conversely another problem was Gerrard constantly playing the long ball).

What we need is to be comfortable in possession and passing the ball around. This doesn't preclude penetrative football, it doesn't preclude fast paced attacks. We weren't comfortable on the ball so we easily lost possession, which put us under pressure. Teams can't attack every minute of every game so we need to be comfortable and patient at times, as well as aggressive and speedy at other times. All of this comes from comfort on the ball, and an ability to pass the ball around.

Yes other teams can be listed, but I didn't think it would make an interesting post if half of it is a list of teams that play passing football whether all the time or in significant patches in games, because you can probably find moments in most teams matches where they've had some good passing moments with some penetration.

Good post. I see what you mean. And for the record, Swansea were more accurate than Spurs and Arsenal

I agree with everything you have said. Trouble is, how do you implement this? I don't think the manager has the correct mentality. Look what happened when he was at Liverpool. Congratulating a 0-0 draw and referencing them to being in a relegation battle. We need to change our approach to games, and I don't think Capello or Hodgson were/are capable of this.