[Football] Keep winning or look for the easier knockout games?

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

Call me mentally delusional if you like, but I genuinely believe if we finish second in the group tonight, we can reach the semi-final. We are then a one off game away from the World Cup Final.

Switzerland are a decent side, Sweden have seen off Holland, Italy and Germany.

I'd back us to beat Brazil who look shaky.

 

[Geestar]

Easier matches.

Sent from my TA-1020 using Tapatalk

 

[bluenitsuj]

Keep winning. It's arrogant to think we are superior to any other team in the knock outs.
If we get knocked out playing Brazil or whoever then so be it.

 

[sydney]

play our best side ...try and win every game ....it's our way

 

[Bold Seagull]

Well, we finished second. Lets hope those watching from the bench actually gained in confidence that they are genuinely the ones to be leading this team and no doubt or worry about their place, as frankly no one last night that I saw really staked a claim to being in our first choice XI.

I wouldn't want Dyer anywhere near our full strength team as he sits far too deep and our weakness is already getting on the front foot. He would only compound that, and he and Stirling together could just slow us down beyond strolling pace. Thought Rose did okay, but not a lot between him and Young, might fancy Young for his experience. Vardy showed real energy if we do need a goal, so that was probably the only positive I really took. Quite how Jones has fashioned a career at MU and continues to be selected as an international I have absolutely no idea – I'm now convinced that his look of perpetual surprise is that he doesn't know either, biased most likely, but I cannot see how he is even up to Dunk's standard let alone better.

As for the keeper, well, let's just hope we keep shots on target to a minimum.

Other than that, I'm still really positive we can win it!

 

[A1X]

Zero problem with finishing second. Momentum is a rubbish concept built entirely in hindsight. Argentina had no momentum coming into their game this week, they won and went through. Germany went into their game with momentum, lost and went home. It's only vaguely relevant if you're playing the same team repeatedly (e.g. England vs Australia in the recent ODI series), but even then it's tenuous.

 

[GT49er]

play our best side ...try and win every game ....it's our way

.....or maybe not!

 

[sydney]

.....or maybe not!

seemingly.....worked out for the best though ....it's as good as in the bag...!!

 

[seagulls4ever]

 

[pasty]

Mental World Cup. And I'm loving it.

One of these seven are guaranteed to be in the final! Russia, Croatia, Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland, Colombia or England

 

[Bold Seagull]

Zero problem with finishing second. Momentum is a rubbish concept built entirely in hindsight. Argentina had no momentum coming into their game this week, they won and went through. Germany went into their game with momentum, lost and went home. It's only vaguely relevant if you're playing the same team repeatedly (e.g. England vs Australia in the recent ODI series), but even then it's tenuous.

Maybe belief is a better word than momentum.

Germany didn't have any momentum by the way, they played poorly, and won a single game with a last minute goal. That isn't what is meant by 'momentum' which is building belief through confidence and feeling unbeatable. Argentina didn't have momentum either really.

Teams with momentum at present are the likes of Croatia who won all 3 group games playing well, and got through yesterday because of that belief from their start. Same with Russia, they have built on a great start to give them belief that they could compete against Spain, going a goal down would have likely defeated them without that.

Not sure it is a rubbish concept. Winning is a habit. Feeling unbeatable is a state of mind.

 

[Triggaaar]

Germany didn't have any momentum by the way, they played poorly, and won a single game with a last minute goal. That isn't what is meant by 'momentum' which is building belief through confidence and feeling unbeatable. Argentina didn't have momentum either really.

Neither did France. They got lucky with a questionable ref decision to beat the Aussies, managed to beat Peru 1-0, and then played the worst game in the World Cup for decades, drawing 0-0 with Denmark.

Now they look great.

Teams with momentum at present are the likes of Croatia who won all 3 group games playing well, and got through yesterday because of that belief from their start.

Croatia are a better team than Denmark, and only got through on penalties.

Same with Russia

Russia got stuffed in their previous game by Uruguay. Did that give them loads of belief?

Not sure it is a rubbish concept. Winning is a habit. Feeling unbeatable is a state of mind.

Are you actually watching this world cup?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Neither did France. They got lucky with a questionable ref decision to beat the Aussies, managed to beat Peru 1-0, and then played the worst game in the World Cup for decades, drawing 0-0 with Denmark.

Now they look great.

Croatia are a better team than Denmark, and only got through on penalties.

Russia got stuffed in their previous game by Uruguay. Did that give them loads of belief?

Are you actually watching this world cup?

And someone can beat someone else against all predictions. Clearly not what I am saying. We're talking about a sporting concept, not binary reasoning. Of course you will get shock results – it is still sport in all its glory of unpredictability. Doesn't mean to say belief, momentum and confidence don't count for something - which is clearly what I was saying, just as a refereeing decision, a worldy goal, a moment of genius or stupidity can equally decide things too.

 

[Triggaaar]

And someone can beat someone else against all predictions. Clearly not what I am saying. We're talking about a sporting concept, not binary reasoning. Of course you will get shock results – it is still sport in all its glory of unpredictability. Doesn't mean to say belief, momentum and confidence don't count for something - which is clearly what I was saying

But you were trying to argue that Germany and Argentina weren't doing well in previous games, so they didn't have belief, and then they lost, and you were picking Croatia and Russia as teams that were doing well and had belief and have therefore gone through.

The discussion is about our game against Beligium and either building momentum or increasing belief. It sounds like you're claiming that this momentum or belief is working for teams, but looking at the evidence, that's not true.

 

[Bold Seagull]

But you were trying to argue that Germany and Argentina weren't doing well in previous games, so they didn't have belief, and then they lost, and you were picking Croatia and Russia as teams that were doing well and had belief and have therefore gone through.

The discussion is about our game against Beligium and either building momentum or increasing belief. It sounds like you're claiming that this momentum or belief is working for teams, but looking at the evidence, that's not true.

No, I replied to a post that said there was no such thing as momentum and they used Germany and Argentina as examples that I counted their point with.

Momentum and belief clearly cannot be considered as single reason for progressing or not, but neither can it be dismissed as not existing at all.

Sounds like you've jumped in without reading what I was replying to (not without precedent...).

 

[Triggaaar]

No, I replied to a post that said there was no such thing as momentum and they used Germany and Argentina as examples that I counted their point with.

Fair enough.

You did then mention Russia as an example of a team with momentum and belief, and I don't agree, given they just got stuffed by Uruguay.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Fair enough.

You did then mention Russia as an example of a team with momentum and belief, and I don't agree, given they just got stuffed by Uruguay.

Again, you are trying to make out it is a hard and fast rule or something, either you believe sportspersons or teams can have belief and momentum or you don't, there isn't really any way of proving it.

As it happens, so far in the knockout games the side with the fewest wins in the tie has gone out; Argentina, Portugal and Spain all go home having won only 1 game - not that I've been watching of course.

 

[Triggaaar]

Again, you are trying to make out it is a hard and fast rule or something

No I'm not. Not once, let alone again. This is about whether is was worth England trying hard to beat Belgium or not. One argument was for wanting the easier side of the draw, the other argument was for maintaining momentum/keeping belief. Everyone knows we're on the easier side now, the only question is whether the momentum/belief is worth more than that. So far in this particular tournament I don't think there's good evidence that momentum/belief has helped much.

 

[Bold Seagull]

No I'm not. Not once, let alone again. This is about whether is was worth England trying hard to beat Belgium or not. One argument was for wanting the easier side of the draw, the other argument was for maintaining momentum/keeping belief. Everyone knows we're on the easier side now, the only question is whether the momentum/belief is worth more than that. So far in this particular tournament I don't think there's good evidence that momentum/belief has helped much.

You already know I was answering a post about whether momentum / belief exists in sport and not specifically about England or anyone else.

We'll obviously never know the answer, and in resting most of the team, the momentum and belief those players that played in the 2 victories is most likely still intact given they didn't feature in the defeat. We'll see how much belief they have soon enough.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

This World Cup's come four years too early for most of these young players, most of whom are still trying to establish themselves in their club sides. Southgate talks a good game, but he has no idea of the feeling back home, he's just bluffing it. Even so, if Southgate keeps faith in this group of players, and the FA keeps faith in Southgate, you might just about have something a bit special going on in four years time.

Speaking as a neutral, I'd say the very worst outcome this time around would be muppet redtop media or thick-eared social media crucifying Southgate or one of his young players for some kind of easy-to-see-in-hindsight error. Because none of them deserve that.