[News] Just Stop Oil

[The Clamp]

“Two hours earlier, Deborah Wilde, a retired teacher from London, and Simon Milner-Edwards, a retired musician from Manchester, disrupted a match between Bulgaria’s Grigor Dimitrov and Japan’s Sho Shimabukuro with the same puzzle stunt”.

 

[pb21]

People have been talking about for decades though. That ship sailed. What was needed (deliberate past tense) was some drastic action. Believe me, people will simply fly over the burning earth etc than think “I’ve caused that”

I actually think that even if the worst of what is predicted to happen does happen, and you could show people a glimpse of the future such that they saw it with their own eyes, people would still carry on as normal.

People would come up with some way/method of not wanting to belive it, think science will change, believing its all a communist woke hoax including the glimpse of the future. Mental defence mechanisms would set in.

People have enough on their plates worrying about tommorow let along 10/30 years in the future that they, on an individual basis, have no control over.

 

[Goldstone Guy]

It’s not a question on support though now is it? Nobody in their right mind doesn’t support. But that’s not enough is it? You need to wake up, stop hoping and understand you cannot prevent. It’s already happening, look outside!

We've discussed this before and agree it's looking pretty grim over the next 50-100 years and protesting now may well be too late, whilst disagreeing about the protests themselves. Do you seriously expect someone who is now 18-20 years old to think "oh well, the planet could be uninhabitable in 40-50 years and I might die with all my friends and family due to starvation or flooding or something else related to climate change. I might as well just enjoy myself whilst I can and not worry about it" ?

Protests might not achieve anything, but I'd much rather people try than we sit on our arses and do nothing.

 

[Wardy's twin]

It’s not a question on support though now is it? Nobody in their right mind doesn’t support. But that’s not enough is it? You need to wake up, stop hoping and understand you cannot prevent. It’s already happening, look outside!

Yes it's happening now but you can hope we can moderate it in the same way I would try to talk someone off a ledge who was trying to commit suicide. There is time to reduce the impact so IMO to give up now is wrong.

 

[portlock seagull]

I actually think that even if the worst of what is predicted to happen does happen, and you could show people a glimpse of the future such that they saw it with their own eyes, people would still carry on as normal.

People would come up with some way/method of not wanting to belive it, think science will change, believing its all a communist woke hoax including the glimpse of the future. Mental defence mechanisms would set in.

People have enough on their plates worrying about tommorow let along 10/30 years in the future that they, on an individual basis, have no control over.

I agree entirely. That’s why I believe there’s no use worrying. Worrying is caused hope, a mistaken belief we can prevent, reverse etc.

The brutal truth is we can’t. It’s not in the future, it’s happening now and will continue to worsen. Better to therefore accept, and prepare for the catastrophe to come.

 

[Wardy's twin]

I actually think that even if the worst of what is predicted to happen does happen, and you could show people a glimpse of the future such that they saw it with their own eyes, people would still carry on as normal.

People would come up with some way/method of not wanting to belive it, think science will change, believing its all a communist woke hoax including the glimpse of the future. Mental defence mechanisms would set in.

People have enough on their plates worrying about tommorow let along 10/30 years in the future that they, on an individual basis, have no control over.

The issue is that the majority of people in the west are too worried about materialistic gain and that is driving the Chinese economy. As was said previously, economic growth is not necessarily a good thing if behind that growth we trade a stable world for trivia. Sort out our thinking then we can sort out the planet and these protestors are at least keeping it in the public eye. I for one are not tired of their actions.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

We've discussed this before and agree it's looking pretty grim over the next 50-100 years and protesting now may well be too late, whilst disagreeing about the protests themselves. Do you seriously expect someone who is now 18-20 years old to think "oh well, the planet could be uninhabitable in 40-50 years and I might die with all my friends and family due to starvation or flooding or something else related to climate change. I might as well just enjoy myself whilst I can and not worry about it" ?

Protests might not achieve anything, but I'd much rather people try than we sit on our arses and do nothing.

Disclaimer -- sorry, I've not read this thread so I'm probably saying nothing original here.

The danger is that their methods are so crass that they're actually alienating the people they need to win over. I'm as green as (I suspect) most people on here but I find these protests pretty exasperating on a strategic level. I tend not to raise my head above the parapet when having a pint in my backstreet local, but I've overheard this campaign being mentioned dozens of times in the past few months. The problem is that I've not heard a single person talk about the environmental issue at the heart of the campaign. The only thing people want to talk about is how appalling it is that 'these idiots' are stopping people getting to work, to hospital appointments, to funerals, to airports to catch a plane, blah blah blah. That's why I think it's a tragically flawed campaign that's encouraging politicians (Tories in particular) to disengage from the issue because of pressure from their constituents, and to actually reduce their commitment to taking meaningful measures..

A very reasonable question is: so what should campaigners do then? And it's a tough one to answer. But a campaign that actually reduces support for beneficial environmental change can't be right. All I can offer is that people should stick to fighting for a change of government as it appears that Labour are more committed to the cause than their mainstream opponents. Concentrating on winning the election is probably the best thing to do. Just pissing people off and increasing the chances of the 'culture war' becoming an election issue isn't helping to achieve that.

 

[willalbion]

Climate activists are not the enemy or the problem. They are brave people, who believe the science. What are they supposed to do? Write another letter? Sign another petition? Two of them got banged up for a few years for daring to climb a bridge.

 

[Easy 10]

If someone tries this at Headingly then there's a decent chance they'll be in for a good kicking, especially if England are on top.

 

[The Clamp]

This sums it up for me. And yes, it’s real.

 

[mile oak]

To everyone in support of these fools how would you feel if an oily person distrupted an Amex match, with us about to score and goal dissallowed/stopped by these idiots?

 

[portlock seagull]

Yes it's happening now but you can hope we can moderate it in the same way I would try to talk someone off a ledge who was trying to commit suicide. There is time to reduce the impact so IMO to give up now is wrong.

Hope is optimism, pretending in this context.
Have you heard of the Stockdale Paradox? Google if not. Anyway, I’m always persuaded by acknowledging reality, the facts, however brutal, to resolve problems. Generally the facts are we’re facing the worst crisis humanity has ever known. It’s beyond comprehension to a great many of us. We have missed, hopelessly, every target to date. And are projected to continue doing so. Moreover, the consequences of climate change aren’t in the future anymore: they’re here and now, happened and happening. Those are the brutal facts.

Why give up on hoping (optimism, pretending) things can change? Well, the additional anecdotal evidence is we are too busy, too selfish, too deluded, too divided, too numerous etc etc etc etc.

Over the years, in a same threads, I said martial law should be declared. It never will be. But that’s the sort of emergency / seismic shock required some time ago to even begin to tackle this problem. Imposed discipline. However… ‘You want “moi” to give up my classic polluting car?’, ‘Stop flying? I’ve worked hard all year for my holiday…’, ‘Insulate my house, who’s going to pay me for that…?’ ‘Stop procreating? I’m entitled to a large family if I want one!’ And a million other myopic arguments would continue on an endless loop even as the waves crash and the fires engulf us. In every country. And everyone.

Unless you’re a Totalitarian state, you cannot even begin to affect the necessary change in one country alone. Never mind 270+

That’s why I think we should stop pretending we can do anything about. It’s why past generations failed. We have. And future ones would also I dare hesitate to add.

 

[Horses Arse]

I actually think that even if the worst of what is predicted to happen does happen, and you could show people a glimpse of the future such that they saw it with their own eyes, people would still carry on as normal.

People would come up with some way/method of not wanting to belive it, think science will change, believing its all a communist woke hoax including the glimpse of the future. Mental defence mechanisms would set in.

People have enough on their plates worrying about tommorow let along 10/30 years in the future that they, on an individual basis, have no control over.

Don't look up!!

 

[Mr Bridger]

To everyone in support of these fools how would you feel if an oily person distrupted an Amex match, with us about to score and goal dissallowed/stopped by these idiots?

Wouldn’t mind if we were playing Villa and they were just about to score.

Just stop Oily Watkins.

 

[Horses Arse]

Disclaimer -- sorry, I've not read this thread so I'm probably saying nothing original here.

The danger is that their methods are so crass that they're actually alienating the people they need to win over. I'm as green as (I suspect) most people on here but I find these protests pretty exasperating on a strategic level. I tend not to raise my head above the parapet when having a pint in my backstreet local, but I've overheard this campaign being mentioned dozens of times in the past few months. The problem is that I've not heard a single person talk about the environmental issue at the heart of the campaign. The only thing people want to talk about is how appalling it is that 'these idiots' are stopping people getting to work, to hospital appointments, to funerals, to airports to catch a plane, blah blah blah. That's why I think it's a tragically flawed campaign that's encouraging politicians (Tories in particular) to disengage from the issue because of pressure from their constituents, and to actually reduce their commitment to taking meaningful measures..

A very reasonable question is: so what should campaigners do then? And it's a tough one to answer. But a campaign that actually reduces support for beneficial environmental change can't be right. All I can offer is that people should stick to fighting for a change of government as it appears that Labour are more committed to the cause than their mainstream opponents. Concentrating on winning the election is probably the best thing to do. Just pissing people off and increasing the chances of the 'culture war' becoming an election issue isn't helping to achieve that.

It's not the campaigners that's the problem, it's the idiotic nation that we've become. Lalala nothing happening, I like driving my car etc etc. No matter what approach is taken they'd continue to ignore.

They voted Boris Johnson in after all! Scary stuff, and it's not just this nation unfortunately.

 

[jonny.rainbow]

Have you heard of the Stockdale Paradox?

Is that anything to do with the Championship goalkeeper of the season costing his team the championship with three goalkeeping blunders in the last three games?

 

[nicko31]

I did chuckle that nobody bounced the thread who’s been ‘supporting’ these criminal morons after the embarrassment of Lords. I’m blaming them for the defeat there too

Feel really sorry for Katie and her opponent. Doing that at a crucial stage when these athletes are trying to feed their families. Utter embarrassment now.

Thankfully the majority of public have had enough. Another ambulance blocked the other day sadly too.

“athletes are trying to feed their families”

LOL

 

[The Clamp]

To everyone in support of these fools how would you feel if an oily person distrupted an Amex match, with us about to score and goal dissallowed/stopped by these idiots?

I would feel a mix of emotions. Perhaps initially disappointed that a game had been disrupted, perhaps even a flash of anger might make its way across my mind.
Then I might be somehow disassociated but mildly excited at the strange turn of events.
I think thenI’d enter a stage of brief contemplation which would drift into admiration for someone having the guts to put themselves on the line like that. I’d then settle into a rationale that it’s only a few seconds of a game out of tens of thousands of hours of football and it’s not that big a deal and perhaps a small price to pay for raising the issue of global warming.
Then as if in a movie, I’d snap back into the here and now of the game and probably forget it ever happened.

You?

Is that the sort of answer you were looking for?

 

[amexer]

Whilst aware the planet could well face bid problems in the future despite all publicity I have have little idea what we and governments should be doing to satisfy these people. Do they everybody to have a battery car, Heat Pumps and Solar panels. Wind Farms replacing farming. Surely we would be in immediate trouble if no oil and gas was available tomorrow. Instead of protest I would like to hear from them what they want done now because they don't get this over

 

[Sheebo]

What they're publicing and refusing to accept is more important than tennis, driving to work (just driving actually), cricket and a good deal more too. I salute them for not just sitting back and accepting that we're f***ed. Yes it is a bit of an inconvenience when stuck on the M25 or when a dull tennis match is interupted, but far less inconvenient that the climate change we are all experiencing.

Whilst I agree with others here that it is likely all too late I don't see why these people are vilified for trying to force a discussion on the issue.

Absolutely agree with that - and good to see we are making some positive steps carbon-wise although probably later than it should have been… Don’t think we’re as f***ed as you say and these people make out (usually worst case scenario guesswork) but it’s an issue we need to tackle and luckily are.

Now back to the morons pissing everyone off who mainly don’t work etc - that’s what the thread was about - the way they’re ‘protesting’ and how stupid it is…