[News] Just Stop Oil

[amexer]

That’s not actually the issue - it’s the powers of Stop and Search that allow someone to be stopped in the first place without any suspicion they are intending to commit a crime that people are protesting about and why innocent people got taken into custody at the Coronation protests - so focussing on ‘intention’ as if it’s a criteria not only misses the point but is a misplaced concern ( and ignores the implications S&S has for civil liberties)

- the current police powers of S&S under PACE , particularly as amended by anti- terrorist legislation is not much better than the Sus Laws of the 70s/80s except it’s any kind of protester/‘delinquent’ being targeted now not just young black men.

A police officer has powers to stop and search you if they have ‘reasonable grounds’ to suspect you’re simply carrying an item that could be used to commit a criminal act . That item could be ‘intrinsically harmless’ like orange power or a can of tomato soup Or a blank piece of card.

(However, you don’t have to assist them by providing any information.)

Proving Intention to commit a crime doesn’t come into it and doesn’t need to be proven at this stage (nor even until someone is actually charged and it is referred to the CPS - it’s enough that the police suspect you may be carrying an item, that taking into consideration, your location, description of your clothes etc and the nature of the item, it can be reasonably suspected that you were planning to commit an offence (vandalism, public disorder, unlawful/unlicensed demonstration, sit ins etc) by using that item they suspect you are in possession of.

More importantly- depending on the area and your location eg at a demonstration, art gallery, snooker hall, road block, anti-monarchy protest etc , a senior police officer can give blanket permissions for lowly uniformed officers to stop and search you for items that could objectively be used to commit an offence without any reasonable suspicion that you have such items in your possession at all let alone harbouring a suspicion that you intend to use them to commit an offence. If they find any such items, that is then used to formulate a ‘reasonable ‘ suspicion you may intend to commit a criminal act.

Its the excessive and wide sweeping powers that the police now have on our streets that are being used to silence free speech and civil protest that rightly concerns most liberal minded people people and the net is scooping up a far wider demographic than the unfortunate young black men who were outrageously targeted in the 80s under the Sus Laws and which culminated in the Brixton and Toxteth riots and rightful repeal of those dreaded and draconian powers.

In my youth when more police were on patrol was often stopped when just walking home in the early hours and had to give an explanation of what I was up to etc.. Was always innocent and never had any objection to this taking place and still wouldn't Now I would think in all circumstances my son or daughter would have no objection to been stopped. They certainly would not be going on at me about human rights

 

[chickens]

Agree with the aims of the protestors but not the methods of protest. Still, in this specific case, it was probably more entertaining than the “sporting spectacle” it interrupted.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Agree with the aims of the protestors but not the methods of protest. Still, in this specific case, it was probably more entertaining than the “sporting spectacle” it interrupted.

I’m not really sure what the aims of the protestors are and I’m not sure I care. The shift to renewable energy is being driven by new technologies and the economics of cheaper energy. A few wealthy kids getting on tv and building a protest cv is pretty irrelevant.

 

[pb21]

I’m not really sure what the aims of the protestors are

FAQs – Just Stop Oil

about just stop oil What is just stop oil? Just Stop Oil is a coalition of groups working together to ensure that the government commits to ending all new licenses and consents for the exploration, development and production of fossil fuels in the UK. What does just stop oil want? We demand that...

juststopoil.org

and I’m not sure I care.

Oh, sorry, don't click on the link then.

The shift to renewable energy is being driven by new technologies and the economics of cheaper energy.

Why is there new renewable energy and technology coming out and why is the economics changing?

A few wealthy kids getting on tv and building a protest cv is pretty irrelevant.

Is the changing economic situation changing quick enough? If not, maybe some protest will help, maybe not.

But then again, you're not sure if you care or not, which is probably the biggest issue.

I think the vast vast majority of people dont really care enough, myself included.

 

[dsr-burnley]

I’m not really sure what the aims of the protestors are and I’m not sure I care. The shift to renewable energy is being driven by new technologies and the economics of cheaper energy. A few wealthy kids getting on tv and building a protest cv is pretty irrelevant.

What they want is that we shouldn't get our oil from the North Sea, we should import it instead. I believe they think it's better for the environment.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

FAQs – Just Stop Oil

about just stop oil What is just stop oil? Just Stop Oil is a coalition of groups working together to ensure that the government commits to ending all new licenses and consents for the exploration, development and production of fossil fuels in the UK. What does just stop oil want? We demand that...

juststopoil.org

Oh, sorry, don't click on the link then.

Why is there new renewable energy and technology coming out and why is the economics changing?

Is the changing economic situation changing quick enough? If not, maybe some protest will help, maybe not.

But then again, you're not sure if you care or not, which is probably the biggest issue.

I think the vast vast majority of people dont really care enough, myself included.

Unfortunately that type of knee jerk reaction is the level of debate we see from JSO. I am fairly knowledgeable about and involved in a small way in carbon emissions and power markets so I do care about and understand the issues being raised. I won’t click your link though, no, because I don’t much care about this group. As I said, they are irrelevant to a process that has been proceeding for some years and will continue regardless of their childish antics.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

What they want is that we shouldn't get our oil from the North Sea, we should import it instead. I believe they think it's better for the environment.

Oil is being phased out anyway. I think what they want is to see themselves on tv.

 

[nicko31]

Much prefer it to the M25 protest

 

[pb21]

Unfortunately that type of knee jerk reaction is the level of debate we see from JSO.

 

[Juan Albion]

I'm just wondering if the Simon Milner Edwards who invaded Court 18, 66 years old and a retired musician from Manchester, could possibly be Simon Milner, formerly lead singer of The Smirks, a Manchester band, and later in the band Distant Cousins with Doreen Edwards. Listening to him talk, I think it might be.

 

[Juan Albion]

I'm just wondering if the Simon Milner Edwards who invaded Court 18, 66 years old and a retired musician from Manchester, could possibly be Simon Milner, formerly lead singer of The Smirks, a Manchester band, and later in the band Distant Cousins with Doreen Edwards. Listening to him talk, I think it might be.

Just answered my own question, I think. Yes it is, as his twitter handle seems to be Oscar Bernhardt (@EdwardsMilner). He was also a member of the Bernhardts so that's good enough for me. Si will always be a hero in my book, so well done that man.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I have no idea what that picture means but thanks.

 

[chickens]

I’m not really sure what the aims of the protestors are and I’m not sure I care. The shift to renewable energy is being driven by new technologies and the economics of cheaper energy. A few wealthy kids getting on tv and building a protest cv is pretty irrelevant.

Well done. That’s precisely the mixture of apathy, dismissiveness and unwillingness to engage with difficult information that brought us here to begin with.

These guys actions are publicity stunts, and are often highly annoying (if not outright dangerous) in nature.

However, their actions have consequences for the individuals participating, a criminal record isn’t something to take lightly. I don’t feel we should necessarily write them off as “just trying to get on TV.”

They at least have the courage of their (now criminal) convictions. A better attitude than apathetically watching as our government opens new coal mines.

As irritating as both of us find the Just Stop Oil lot, they will be seen in any future history books written on this subject to have been trying to accelerate our move away from finite fossil fuels, to slow climate change, and therefore to be on the right side of history.

You and I, who try to do the right thing as long as it doesn’t inconvenience us, and “carry on as normal” will be very much seen as part of the reason why entire areas of the planet are underwater or uninhabitable through climate change. My home will almost certainly remain above sea level. If projections are correct, millions won’t be as lucky.

How close do disasters have to be before we feel empathy for those caught up in them? Will we all open our homes to those made homeless by our refusal to make comparatively small concessions in our way of life? If the consequences of our actions are borne by others we don’t personally know, is it ok to act in this way?

It’s cheaper and better to avert a disaster than recover from one. I don’t think anyone can say we haven’t been warned.

I agree with your point regarding the change happening regardless due to the economics of renewables becoming cheaper than fossil fuels, despite the incredible subsidies enjoyed by the fossil fuel industries.

Nonetheless, anyone/anything that accelerates the switch is potentially saving lives, land and livelihoods.

I’d rather they went around installing insulation, solar panels and heat pumps for those who can’t afford them than gluing themselves to roads, but doing something misguided that drags our attention back to this is still better than doing nothing.

TLDR: - eez complicated, this approach will not bring real change in itself, and annoys us, but perhaps in keeping us talking about it will do some good, and is preferable to apathy.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Well done. That’s precisely the mixture of apathy, dismissiveness and unwillingness to engage with difficult information that brought us here to begin with.

These guys actions are publicity stunts, and are often highly annoying (if not outright dangerous) in nature.

However, their actions have consequences for the individuals participating, a criminal record isn’t something to take lightly. I don’t feel we should necessarily write them off as “just trying to get on TV.”

They at least have the courage of their (now criminal) convictions. A better attitude than apathetically watching as our government opens new coal mines.

As irritating as both of us find the Just Stop Oil lot, they will be seen in any future history books written on this subject to have been trying to accelerate our move away from finite fossil fuels, to slow climate change, and therefore to be on the right side of history.

You and I, who try to do the right thing as long as it doesn’t inconvenience us, and “carry on as normal” will be very much seen as part of the reason why entire areas of the planet are underwater or uninhabitable through climate change. My home will almost certainly remain above sea level. If projections are correct, millions won’t be as lucky.

How close do disasters have to be before we feel empathy for those caught up in them? Will we all open our homes to those made homeless by our refusal to make comparatively small concessions in our way of life? If the consequences of our actions are borne by others we don’t personally know, is it ok to act in this way?

It’s cheaper and better to avert a disaster than recover from one. I don’t think anyone can say we haven’t been warned.

I agree with your point regarding the change happening regardless due to the economics of renewables becoming cheaper than fossil fuels, despite the incredible subsidies enjoyed by the fossil fuel industries.

Nonetheless, anyone/anything that accelerates the switch is potentially saving lives, land and livelihoods.

I’d rather they went around installing insulation, solar panels and heat pumps for those who can’t afford them than gluing themselves to roads, but doing something misguided that drags our attention back to this is still better than doing nothing.

TLDR: - eez complicated, this approach will not bring real change in itself, and annoys us, but perhaps in keeping us talking about it will do some good, and is preferable to apathy.

That’s a lecture with a whole load of assumptions about my views and knowledge about the environment. It’s also a neat summary of the reason people will not engage with JSO.

 

[A1X]

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Oil is being phased out anyway. I think what they want is to see themselves on tv.

Very, very, very, very, very slowly ..... possibly. Remember 2020 and 2021 were pandemic years so less oil was used.

 

[chickens]

That’s a lecture with a whole load of assumptions about my views and knowledge about the environment. It’s also a neat summary of the reason people will not engage with JSO.

Sorry? You began your post that I quoted with (to paraphrase) “don’t know and don’t care” - that is your view, that’s what you’ve typed out and posted and I’ve responded to.

No assumptions made regarding your knowledge of the environment, and there were no assumptions required regarding your attitude toward uncomfortable truths, you telegraph your determination to look the other way loud and clear.

This is what I describe as the “ostrich” method of problem avoidance. Pretend not to see it, hope somebody else comes and does something about it, and then carry on as if nothing has happened.

Its only flaw is its total lack of efficacy.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Sorry? You began your post that I quoted with (to paraphrase) “don’t know and don’t care” - that is your view, that’s what you’ve typed out and posted and I’ve responded to.

No assumptions made regarding your knowledge of the environment, and there were no assumptions required regarding your attitude toward uncomfortable truths, you telegraph your determination to look the other way loud and clear.

This is what I describe as the “ostrich” method of problem avoidance. Pretend not to see it, hope somebody else comes and does something about it, and then carry on as if nothing has happened.

Its only flaw is its total lack of efficacy.

Then read my post again. I am happy to spell it out for you if you are determined to be obtuse though. I specifically don’t know and don’t care what the organization JSO think. That says nothing about my views on phasing out fossil fuels and the energy transition.

 

[chickens]

Then read my post again. I am happy to spell it out for you if you are determined to be obtuse though. I specifically don’t know and don’t care what the organization JSO think. That says nothing about my views on phasing out fossil fuels and the energy transition.

Don’t trouble yourself.

P.s. there’s a clue in their name.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Oil is being phased out anyway. I think what they want is to see themselves on tv.

Be interested to know what you posted when quoting my post ?