[News] Just Stop Oil

[Swansman]

"More attention"?

Is there really anyone left in the Western democratic world who hasn't heard of climate change and done something, as an individual about it? Either changed something (or lots of things) in their own ways or, alternatively, taken an intransigent and unscientific view that it's all guff, in which case gluing yourself to a petrol pump is highly unlikely to change their thinking! I'm neither an eco-warrior nor a denier but in the last ten years, without really thinking about it, I've flown less, eaten less meat, recycled everything I am able and used walking / cycling / public transport more compared with the ten years previous to that.

If direct action helps - and we know from our football club it can - then it needs to be direct action against the thing or people causing the problem, in this case governments and some corporations.

Like BP, the owners of these petrol stations?

 

[Guinness Boy]

Like BP, the owners of these petrol stations?

Who will be covered by insurance.

The only people impacted here are individual drivers.

 

[zefarelly]

"More attention"?

Is there really anyone left in the Western democratic world who hasn't heard of climate change and done something, as an individual about it? Either changed something (or lots of things) in their own ways or, alternatively, taken an intransigent and unscientific view that it's all guff, in which case gluing yourself to a petrol pump is highly unlikely to change their thinking! I'm neither an eco-warrior nor a denier but in the last ten years, without really thinking about it, I've flown less, eaten less meat, recycled everything I am able and used walking / cycling / public transport more compared with the ten years previous to that.

If direct action helps - and we know from our football club it can - then it needs to be direct action against the thing or people causing the problem, in this case governments and some corporations.

I'm the same as you, but sadly I tihnk there are still a lot of people who don't give a shit, they have heard, do know, may talk the talk but at the end of the day haven't and won't do anything about it.


smashing up a petrol station won't change much, other than govt / police policy to beat up protestors. Innocent, peaceful or otherwise.

 

[Swansman]

Who will be covered by insurance.

The only people impacted here are individual drivers.

Ok... so no direct actions against some corporations if they are covered by insurance.



Silly me, I didnt check if one of the speakers of nazi party Nordiska Motståndsrörelsen had a car insurance before smashing the rearview mirror of his parked car during the nazi demonstration in Kungälv a couple of years ago.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Ok... so no direct actions against some corporations if they are covered by insurance.



Silly me, I didnt check if one of the speakers of nazi party Nordiska Motståndsrörelsen had a car insurance before smashing the rearview mirror of his parked car during the nazi demonstration in Kungälv a couple of years ago.

Is it really a good idea to show your opposition to nazism by adopting their policies? Smashing up the possessions of people you don't like is one of the things nazis were known for. Implicit approval of their actions surely can't be good.

It reminds me of an anti-Nazi league rally a fair few years ago. On of its aims (without irony) was to march on BNP headquarters and burn the books they didn't agree with.

 

[Swansman]

Is it really a good idea to show your opposition to nazism by adopting their policies? Smashing up the possessions of people you don't like is one of the things nazis were known for. Implicit approval of their actions surely can't be good.

It reminds me of an anti-Nazi league rally a fair few years ago. On of its aims (without irony) was to march on BNP headquarters and burn the books they didn't agree with.

Possessions are not all that holy in my commie heart.

I think it was a good idea. Don't regret it one bit. The "lets write an angry note about these nazis once they've had a demonstration and protest on the square in the town where you live" approach is not for me.

Not a fan of book burning so wouldnt support that but would also pretty much shrug if someone decided to burn a few copies of Mein Kampf.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Ok... so no direct actions against some corporations if they are covered by insurance.



Silly me, I didnt check if one of the speakers of nazi party Nordiska Motståndsrörelsen had a car insurance before smashing the rearview mirror of his parked car during the nazi demonstration in Kungälv a couple of years ago.

The direct action isn't against the corporation. Here's the guy who organised it:

"I refuse to stand by and watch as heatwaves and drought murder people across the global south and families in the UK are forced to choose between eating and heating.

"If politicians and bureaucrats refuse to act then it falls on ordinary people to do what they will not."

https://news.sky.com/story/climate-...l-pumps-at-motorway-service-stations-12600602

He's protesting against politicians and bureaucrats by stopping Doris Smith filling up her car and buying a pack of Minstrels. BP gets to pay a small insurance excess and may even get extra trade out of this from people wanting to kick against the protesters.

 

[Swansman]

The direct action isn't against the corporation. Here's the guy who organised it:

"I refuse to stand by and watch as heatwaves and drought murder people across the global south and families in the UK are forced to choose between eating and heating.

"If politicians and bureaucrats refuse to act then it falls on ordinary people to do what they will not."

https://news.sky.com/story/climate-...l-pumps-at-motorway-service-stations-12600602

He's protesting against politicians and bureaucrats by stopping Doris Smith filling up her car and buying a pack of Minstrels. BP gets to pay a small insurance excess and may even get extra trade out of this from people wanting to kick against the protesters.

Yeah well that is one thing about actions, they often cause inconvenience for someone. Poor Olga Ivanov might not have been able to buy her new fake mink fur at some store around the Manezhnaya square when there was anti-war protests over there a month ago. Or that bloke standing in front of the tanks at Tianamen Square... all he did was to force some 若汐 to clean the tracks of those tanks.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Yeah well that is one thing about actions, they often cause inconvenience for someone. Poor Olga Ivanov might not have been able to buy her new fake mink fur at some store around the Manezhnaya square when there was anti-war protests over there a month ago. Or that bloke standing in front of the tanks at Tianamen Square... all he did was to force some 若汐 to clean the tracks of those tanks.

You're really not making sense.

In Tianamen individual people stood in front of Army tanks and took on the Chinese government.

Here a rent-a-mob of aggressive young people have stopped individual people buying things.

Why are you conflating the two?

 

[Swansman]

You're really not making sense.

In Tianamen individual people stood in front of Army tanks and took on the Chinese government.

Here a rent-a-mob of aggressive young people have stopped individual people buying things.

Why are you conflating the two?

That is your personal interpretation of their protest.

Surely some pro-Chinese government avg people - in case they had known about this - would have said "Here a dumb, passive-aggressive dude have stopped this ole tank from driving back to the garage".

Maybe we should just agree to disagree:

These protesters believe that making statements like this, showing they dont accept business-as-usual because it is ruining the planet, is more important than Doris Smith buying some shit at the petrol station. I think it is commendable, you don't. None of which should be surprising to any of us, we are very different people.

 

[Jim in the West]

what are people supposed to put in there car ...? squirty cream , shampoo...??

Well, more and more people are putting electricity in their car, rather than petrol or diesel. But the objective of Just Stop Oil is not to stop people putting petrol in their cars, it's to stop further exploitation of new oil and gas. If the government acted on its own advice, organisations like Just Stop Oil wouldn't need to exist.

 

[FatSuperman]

What is it that people don't understand about this sort of protest? These protest groups have absolutely no power, no influence, they don't spend billions lobbying governments, buying out competition and stifling innovation. They have no choice but to look for leverage to amplify the cause they are passionate in. They either ally themselves with powerful groups, or they make a bloody nuisance of themselves endlessly to raise awareness. Obviously there will be people coming in shouting at how they are criminals, how they are only inconveniencing normal folk and all that jazz, but that's just an unfortunate side-effect.

So many people on this thread engaging in whataboutery. "Oh but they drove there" or "I suppose you make your own clothes and only eat grass do you"? It's so incredibly short-sighted, selfish and simple-minded. Change and innovation never happen in one giant move. Things are not invented, decided, created with the full set of answers and everything ready to go. Especially not solutions to 'wicked problems' like climate change.

It is possible to entirely oppose something whilst also being forced to use it, and desiring change without having the answer yourself.

It's also possible to be thick as mince

 

[Jim in the West]

"More attention"?

Is there really anyone left in the Western democratic world who hasn't heard of climate change and done something, as an individual about it? Either changed something (or lots of things) in their own ways or, alternatively, taken an intransigent and unscientific view that it's all guff, in which case gluing yourself to a petrol pump is highly unlikely to change their thinking! I'm neither an eco-warrior nor a denier but in the last ten years, without really thinking about it, I've flown less, eaten less meat, recycled everything I am able and used walking / cycling / public transport more compared with the ten years previous to that.

If direct action helps - and we know from our football club it can - then it needs to be direct action against the thing or people causing the problem, in this case governments and some corporations.

If you look at most of the direct action that took place in the dark days, it wasn't really directed towards the people causing the problem (mainly Archer, but also Stanley and Bellotti). OK, there was the protest at Archer's home, and a few people tried to get at Bellotti in the directors box at the Goldstone. But the vast majority of direct action was actually well-orchestrated "publicity stunts" which raised the profile of the cause.

 

[Nixonator]

That is your personal interpretation of their protest.

Surely some pro-Chinese government avg people - in case they had known about this - would have said "Here a dumb, passive-aggressive dude have stopped this ole tank from driving back to the garage".

Maybe we should just agree to disagree:

These protesters believe that making statements like this, showing they dont accept business-as-usual because it is ruining the planet, is more important than Doris Smith buying some shit at the petrol station. I think it is commendable, you don't. None of which should be surprising to any of us, we are very different people.

Just quit while you're behind. This isn't an agree to disagree moment, if you believe what they were doing is commendable you seriously lack life experience and your relationship with respect needs some serious attention. I'm guessing you're very young and in time you will move past these naiveties, or more regrettably, never grow up and glue yourself to some tarmac.

 

[Swansman]

Just quit while you're behind. This isn't an agree to disagree moment, if you believe what they were doing is commendable you seriously lack life experience and your relationship with respect needs some serious attention. I'm guessing you're very young and in time you will move past these naiveties, or more regrettably, never grow up and glue yourself to some tarmac.

I disagree with pretty much everything you just said.

 

[beorhthelm]

The direct action isn't against the corporation. Here's the guy who organised it:

"I refuse to stand by and watch as heatwaves and drought murder people across the global south and families in the UK are forced to choose between eating and heating.

"If politicians and bureaucrats refuse to act then it falls on ordinary people to do what they will not."

https://news.sky.com/story/climate-...l-pumps-at-motorway-service-stations-12600602

He's protesting against politicians and bureaucrats by stopping Doris Smith filling up her car and buying a pack of Minstrels. BP gets to pay a small insurance excess and may even get extra trade out of this from people wanting to kick against the protesters.

that highlights there's a bunch of tangentially related causes going on here. what happens in the "global south" isnt really what Just Stop Oil claims to be about, and those choosing between eating and heating certainly wont be helped by smashing up a fuel station. is political activism using any cause to justify disruptive, agressive actions. if all licencing stopped tomorrow they'd just find another.

 

[FatSuperman]

Just quit while you're behind. This isn't an agree to disagree moment, if you believe what they were doing is commendable you seriously lack life experience and your relationship with respect needs some serious attention. I'm guessing you're very young and in time you will move past these naiveties, or more regrettably, never grow up and glue yourself to some tarmac.

Smashing things up and inconveniencing the public isn't commendable. Raising the awareness of the most important issue in our lifetimes is commendable. Can you see how you can be both for and against something at the same time?

 

[Guinness Boy]

that highlights there's a bunch of tangentially related causes going on here. what happens in the "global south" isnt really what Just Stop Oil claims to be about, and those choosing between eating and heating certainly wont be helped by smashing up a fuel station. is political activism using any cause to justify disruptive, agressive actions. if all licencing stopped tomorrow they'd just find another.

Indeed. Professional protesters at the end of the day. Much like someone who, say, spent all day on the internet, a thing they think is evil, so they can "win" arguments with total strangers.

 

[rippleman]

I think most right-minded people are doing what they can to stem the advance of climate change. IMO it has already gone too far for the actions of individuals to reverse the damage done to the environment. Only the actions of governments of the major polluting nations: China, India and the US can have a real impact.

China built coal powered stations generating 33GW just last year

https://www.reuters.com/markets/com...wer-2021-most-since-2016-research-2022-02-24/

If the protesters fully understood the issue they would be gluing themselves to the Chinese embassy. It is not what we, in the UK, are doing as individuals but foreign governments who clearly have no interest whatsoever in the climate emergency.

I would love it if these protests were actually going to have an impact. But they really aren't.

 

[Guinness Boy]

If you look at most of the direct action that took place in the dark days, it wasn't really directed towards the people causing the problem (mainly Archer, but also Stanley and Bellotti). OK, there was the protest at Archer's home, and a few people tried to get at Bellotti in the directors box at the Goldstone. But the vast majority of direct action was actually well-orchestrated "publicity stunts" which raised the profile of the cause.

Protest at Archer's house, LOTS of people getting in the directors and boardroom (I'm pleased to say I know one of them), Liz and Sarah chasing Belotti, and the massive York City pitch invasion which was an attack on the board / club AND raising awareness (and pent up frustration).

The songs? "Build a Bonfire, Build a Bonfire put BELOTTI on the top, put BILL ARCHER in the middle".

You're stretching the point to fit your agenda.

Not to mention a Brighton fan that did jail time for his protests against the terrible twosome who wasn't independently wealthy in any way.