[News] Just Stop Oil

[beorhthelm]

nice day out there, warm, sunny, no wind, lovely for the beach or a walk on the downs.
wind generating 3.3%, solar 7.8% power use. so if we have just 30x more wind (bcause sun isnt always shining so bright), we'd not need any fossil fuels (or nuclear).

 

[FatSuperman]

I think most right-minded people are doing what they can to stem the advance of climate change. IMO it has already gone too far for the actions of individuals to reverse the damage done to the environment. Only the actions of governments of the major polluting nations: China, India and the US can have a real impact.

China built coal powered stations generating 33GW just last year

https://www.reuters.com/markets/com...wer-2021-most-since-2016-research-2022-02-24/

If the protesters fully understood the issue they would be gluing themselves to the Chinese embassy. It is not what we, in the UK, are doing as individuals but foreign governments who clearly have no interest whatsoever in the climate emergency.

I would love it if these protests were actually going to have an impact. But they really aren't.

Idea 1: Travel to China, glue ourselves to the stacks of a coal burning power plant in the Guangdong province.
Idea 2: Make a fuss in the UK, putting pressure on private industry and the government to act, raise awareness with the public in any way possible.
Idea 3: Do nothing because it's hard.

Ripple, if you think nothing is going to make a difference, then our time on this planet is going to be cut much shorter than we anticipate. The big problem is that there is no catastrophic moment that we can point to and say 'let's all try and fix this'. It's death by a thousand cuts, and 99% of us are sitting here saying 'that cut isn't great, but I'll survive'.

Coupled with some real 'don't look up' type behavior' from some, who seek to gain from all of this so. There has been a sustained and almost infinitely financed downgrading of how serious this is by those with vested interests.

 

[Jim in the West]

Protest at Archer's house, LOTS of people getting in the directors and boardroom (I'm pleased to say I know one of them), Liz and Sarah chasing Belotti, and the massive York City pitch invasion which was an attack on the board / club AND raising awareness (and pent up frustration).

The songs? "Build a Bonfire, Build a Bonfire put BELOTTI on the top, put BILL ARCHER in the middle".

You're stretching the point to fit your agenda.

Not to mention a Brighton fan that did jail time for his protests against the terrible twosome who wasn't independently wealthy in any way.

I think you're misinterpreting my point - I'm not decrying any of the actions (I took part in loads), but most were NOT direct action against Archer and Bellotti (although I did a one-man protest outside his house in Bath at one stage!). The pitch invasion wasn't an attack on Archer or Bellotti (even though they were obviously the root cause of the problems).

 

[FatSuperman]

nice day out there, warm, sunny, no wind, lovely for the beach or a walk on the downs.
wind generating 3.3%, solar 7.8%. so if we have just 30x more wind (bcause sun isnt always shining so bright), we'd not need any fossil fuels (or nuclear).

Another topic that I find endlessly frustrating. Nuclear energy is/was clearly the gateway to true clean energy, yet the endless safety agenda from people that do not understand the risks (and big oil) have meant that innovation got completely stifled and none of the promising new technologies went very far. There are a wild amount of workable reactors that are far safer than the current designs, yet policy,approvals and audit requirements mean it's impossible to do anything but dangerous, old solutions. So ironic that safety rules have made it demonstrably less safe. Has meant the reliance on fossil fuels continued unabated.

See also bio-engineering of plants, innovation and progress massively stifled in the EU due to ignorance and purism. Classic EU.

 

[Jim in the West]

I think most right-minded people are doing what they can to stem the advance of climate change. IMO it has already gone too far for the actions of individuals to reverse the damage done to the environment. Only the actions of governments of the major polluting nations: China, India and the US can have a real impact.

China built coal powered stations generating 33GW just last year

https://www.reuters.com/markets/com...wer-2021-most-since-2016-research-2022-02-24/

If the protesters fully understood the issue they would be gluing themselves to the Chinese embassy. It is not what we, in the UK, are doing as individuals but foreign governments who clearly have no interest whatsoever in the climate emergency.

I would love it if these protests were actually going to have an impact. But they really aren't.

The UK still has the presidency of COP26. COP26 recognised that we cannot allow temperatures to raise by more than 1.5 degrees. Yet by allowing new oil and gas fields to be exploited we will exceed that limit (according to the UK government's own advisors). Hence, the UK is undermining its own COP26 commitments, whilst it is the actual President of COP26! I'm not saying China automatically takes a lead from the UK, but how on earth can we persuade China to commit to fossil fuel reduction if we won't? So, what we do in the UK (especially given our leadership position) is critically important.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

nice day out there, warm, sunny, no wind, lovely for the beach or a walk on the downs.
wind generating 3.3%, solar 7.8% power use. so if we have just 30x more wind (bcause sun isnt always shining so bright), we'd not need any fossil fuels (or nuclear).

Or tidal?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-44589083

 

[usernamed]

Or tidal?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-44589083

That was the biggest missed opportunity by any government, of any stamp, ever. Isambard Kingdom Brunel would not have got a look-in under this shower.

We’re a ****ing island, how is it we are absolutely failing to utilise the resources we have?

 

[beorhthelm]

Or tidal?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-44589083

tidal should be another possibilty. however seems frought with even more environmental concerns and failure to have arrived at deliverable designs. everythings experimental. unlike wind where the basic windmill architecture is solved, effective and can be improved upon.

the other part of the solution is storage, not batteries at grid scale, other scalable ways to store vast amounts of surplus energy for months or years. obviously hydrogen, though seems the delivery isnt happening for reasons.

 

[Barnet Seagull]

Protest at Archer's house, LOTS of people getting in the directors and boardroom (I'm pleased to say I know one of them), Liz and Sarah chasing Belotti, and the massive York City pitch invasion which was an attack on the board / club AND raising awareness (and pent up frustration).

The songs? "Build a Bonfire, Build a Bonfire put BELOTTI on the top, put BILL ARCHER in the middle".

You're stretching the point to fit your agenda.

Not to mention a Brighton fan that did jail time for his protests against the terrible twosome who wasn't independently wealthy in any way.

Not meaning to derail this thread but in my head this was the other way round i.e. Bill Archer on the top.
My memory is shocking though and it's been a very long time

 

[Seagull27]

I think most right-minded people are doing what they can to stem the advance of climate change. IMO it has already gone too far for the actions of individuals to reverse the damage done to the environment. Only the actions of governments of the major polluting nations: China, India and the US can have a real impact.

China built coal powered stations generating 33GW just last year

https://www.reuters.com/markets/com...wer-2021-most-since-2016-research-2022-02-24/

If the protesters fully understood the issue they would be gluing themselves to the Chinese embassy. It is not what we, in the UK, are doing as individuals but foreign governments who clearly have no interest whatsoever in the climate emergency.

I would love it if these protests were actually going to have an impact. But they really aren't.

They're going to have even less of an impact gluing themselves to the Chinese embassy. What would that achieve?

As UK citizens we can't protest about what other countries' governments do as they have no accountability to us. We can only protest about the actions of the UK government, as part of our democratic process, in the hope that the leaders take note in fear of losing popularity.

And this form of protest from Just Stop Oil is inconsiderate, it's annoying for those it impacts. But it clearly works - we're all talking about it after all.

 

[Spiros]

I think you're misinterpreting my point - I'm not decrying any of the actions (I took part in loads), but most were NOT direct action against Archer and Bellotti (although I did a one-man protest outside his house in Bath at one stage!). The pitch invasion wasn't an attack on Archer or Bellotti (even though they were obviously the root cause of the problems).

But the pitch invasion was direct action at the club. What these Stop Oil protestors are doing is the equivalent of protesting about Brighton's ownership by invading the pitch at St Albans versus Carshalton Athletic. It's the right protest in the wrong place. instead they should try gluing themselves to the Chinese (or Indian or US or Saudi) embassy to make their protest. Or even better go to China to make their point directly if they have so much time on their hands. Inconvenience the people causing the problem rather than just pissing off a few members of the public who might actually agree with their views

 

[FatSuperman]

tidal should be another possibilty. however seems frought with even more environmental concerns and failure to have arrived at deliverable designs. everythings experimental. unlike wind where the basic windmill architecture is solved, effective and can be improved upon.

the other part of the solution is storage, not batteries at grid scale, other scalable ways to store vast amounts of surplus energy for months or years. obviously hydrogen, though seems the delivery isnt happening for reasons.

Thomas Edison said that 'Invention is 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration'. When his company developed the nickel-iron battery, they undertook over 50,000 experiments. In 1884, Charles Parsons created and patented a steam turbine, by the turn of the century he had got it to about 2% efficiency at turning coal into electricity. Nowadays, a modern combined-cycle gas turbine is about 60% efficient. And that 1900's Parson's turbine is 200 years after we first started converting heat into work by using steam - so there had already been a massive amount of learning gained by that point. Thousands upon thousands of iterations of steam engines, dynamos, turbine design took us to a barely effective solution - although one which massively outperformed the competition of the time.

Tidal needs to be in the sea and we need to be learning from it up and down the coastline. We need designated areas to experiment, or far, far looser restrictions. We need policies and patents that protect inventors and innovators and we need to support those people with grants and funding. Instead, we have big oil vested interests stifling the life out of the competition.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Possessions are not all that holy in my commie heart.

I think it was a good idea. Don't regret it one bit. The "lets write an angry note about these nazis once they've had a demonstration and protest on the square in the town where you live" approach is not for me.

Not a fan of book burning so wouldnt support that but would also pretty much shrug if someone decided to burn a few copies of Mein Kampf.

So when you say possessions aren't all that holy, are you referring to all possessions or just other peoples' possessions? For example, if someone decided they didn't like your political views and so they smashed your wing mirror, would you be as unbothered as you were about doing it to someone else? If someone came to your house and burnt any of your books that they didn't like, would you pretty much shrug?

What I'm getting at is, where do you stand in principle? Do you support the principle that anyone who objects to something they disapprove of should be allowed to destroy property, or is it just the principle that anyone who objects to something that Swansman disapproves of should be allowed to destroy property?

 

[Guinness Boy]

Not meaning to derail this thread but in my head this was the other way round i.e. Bill Archer on the top.
My memory is shocking though and it's been a very long time

I strongly suspect you are right.

We were singing it at Spurs as well

 

[Swansman]

So when you say possessions aren't all that holy, are you referring to all possessions or just other peoples' possessions? For example, if someone decided they didn't like your political views and so they smashed your wing mirror, would you be as unbothered as you were about doing it to someone else? If someone came to your house and burnt any of your books that they didn't like, would you pretty much shrug?

What I'm getting at is, where do you stand in principle? Do you support the principle that anyone who objects to something they disapprove of should be allowed to destroy property, or is it just the principle that anyone who objects to something that Swansman disapproves of should be allowed to destroy property?

Unlikely to be lazy enough to ever get myself a car and I would find it interesting, unusual and a little bit exciting if someone came around to burn my books and pretty sure it could lead to good discussions, and it is always interesting to meet new people.

Generally speaking I appreciate the dedication required to take action, such as destroying property, but I prefer when it is done against something I disapprove of as I believe the things I stand for would make the world better.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Not meaning to derail this thread but in my head this was the other way round i.e. Bill Archer on the top.
My memory is shocking though and it's been a very long time

Bellotti on the top
Put Bill Archer in the middle
And we'll burn the ****** lot

 

[Dr Q]

tidal should be another possibilty. however seems frought with even more environmental concerns and failure to have arrived at deliverable designs. everythings experimental. unlike wind where the basic windmill architecture is solved, effective and can be improved upon.

the other part of the solution is storage, not batteries at grid scale, other scalable ways to store vast amounts of surplus energy for months or years. obviously hydrogen, though seems the delivery isnt happening for reasons.

Well Shoreham Harbour is getting it's own Hydrogen hub to fuel it's own internal vehicles, being planned and built by a company in the Group I work for (which itself was and still mainly an oil industry service company). Will be intersting to see how that develops and hopefully expands to other transport uses in the area.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Unlikely to be lazy enough to ever get myself a car and I would find it interesting, unusual and a little bit exciting if someone came around to burn my books and pretty sure it could lead to good discussions, and it is always interesting to meet new people.

Generally speaking I appreciate the dedication required to take action, such as destroying property, but I prefer when it is done against something I disapprove of as I believe the things I stand for would make the world better.

That's fine. So in principle, you have no objection to anybody destroying your property but in practice you would prefer it to be done by people who want the same things you do?

 

[Swansman]

That's fine. So in principle, you have no objection to anybody destroying your property but in practice you would prefer it to be done by people who want the same things you do?

As long as I have my health, good friends, and can take nice walks in the sun feeling the smell of flowers or summer rain, I'll be just fine. I dont need stuff.

 

[portlock seagull]

If you look at most of the direct action that took place in the dark days, it wasn't really directed towards the people causing the problem (mainly Archer, but also Stanley and Bellotti). OK, there was the protest at Archer's home, and a few people tried to get at Bellotti in the directors box at the Goldstone. But the vast majority of direct action was actually well-orchestrated "publicity stunts" which raised the profile of the cause.

Simply not true, as others have already commented. And if you were there then, you’d know it. Nice revisionist history mind, if you’re into that sort of thing.