[News] Just Stop Oil

[Thunder Bolt]

Interesting, thanks for the clarification. So they would be arrested, removed from the scene and made to promise to desist, then de-arrested?

Sort of, yes.

 

[Eeyore]

Were people not grizzling about protestors being labelled “loony lefties” just a few posts ago? Now you’re throwing out terms like Karens, and gammons without a trace of irony.

Peaceful protests should be just that - peaceful. Organised, legal and not breaching the peace. Deliberately stopping traffic, including emergency services, is a direct breach of the peace and incitement to riot, when inevitably lives are lost due to their criminality.

Peacefully protesting is not causing criminal damage (throwing powder on snooker tables, damaging artwork) it is not intentionally trying to cause a loss of life by wilfully blocking ambulances attempting to save lives, preventing nurses and doctors from driving to work, and inciting criminal activity from others via social media.

Standing appropriately in a pedestrian thoroughfare, having informed the police and council of their intentions to stage a peaceful, legal protest is not what are they doing. They are intentionally causing maximum disruption in order to gain exposure, much of which crosses over comfortably into firmly illegal territory.

Their sponsors pay the mercenary for hire element appropriately, and they look for the next gig, at a LGBTQ+ protest, or BLM rally. Whoever pays them well enough and covers their court costs and fines.

What about smashing down goalposts and causing a football match to be abandoned ?

 

[jcdenton08]

What about smashing down goalposts and causing a football match to be abandoned ?

Illegal act, punished appropriately.

 

[Eeyore]

Illegal act, punished appropriately.

My point is that the action was seen as justified. Even by the current club itself in its montage. This is not to comment on the action itself, but merely to say that some would view principle as above the law. And this is where Stop Oil and 1996 are unusual bedfellows. Both cause disruption for cause led, and what they see as wholly justified, reasons.

As regards Just Stop Oil, I'm not wholly sympathetic or unsympathetic. They have a valid point which I support in a hypocritical way. I do see some of their disruption as counter productive and some as bewildering. Some also dangerous.

My biggest concern, however, is the general backdoor clamp down on protest in this country that would come under the peaceful remit. We saw it at the coronation. I think we should spend as much time talking about this really. It's a worrying authoritarian trend.

 

[Worried Man Blues]

What about smashing down goalposts and causing a football match to be abandoned ?

Yup, we did that!

 

[jcdenton08]

As regards Just Stop Oil, I'm not wholly sympathetic or unsympathetic. They have a valid point which I support in a hypocritical way. I do see some of their disruption as counter productive and some as bewildering. Some also dangerous.

My biggest concern, however, is the general backdoor clamp down on protest in this country that would come under the peaceful remit. We saw it at the coronation. I think we should spend as much time talking about this really. It's a worrying authoritarian trend.

I agree entirely with the final paragraph.

I have written before that it is my belief that JSO, ER and other protest groups should be looking to win hearts and minds. I was belittled for this, because allegedly hearts and minds aren’t important if they are “gammony”. This is, in my view, a hard left mindset akin to Corbyn’s failure. “Well, they didn’t vote for him/support JSO because they are stupid and don’t listen”.

Dale Carnegie’s seminal book “How to win friends and influence people” talks in depth and influence and the perception of trust. Do I trust JSO? No. I don’t. I trust the government less, and would trust JSO more if they stayed within legal boundaries.

The truth is (almost) everyone recognises there is a problem with climate change. They recognise that gas and electric companies are getting even more wealthy with price gouging, and the government has done next to nothing to prevent this. In fact, many of their policies enable it both directly and indirectly.

My line is, and remains, that JSO have a huge image problem and their tactics simply aren’t compatible with the majority of average people. Supporters of JSO will call them Karens, gammons, little Englanders, middle class, etc. Maybe they’re right. But it’s not going to win them over to the cause.

 

[Randy McNob]

What amazes me is how people get the fit of the vapours when others act to stand up for what are basic human rights, yes we are the same species.

The government need enough of the public on side and use the weight of the media to demonise and paint people as loonies and not like them. With enough people on side they have the green light to erode people's rights, freedom of movement, right to protest, workers rights, on the path towards authoritarianism.

An attack on people's right to protest is an attack on everyone. They don't say they will kerb the right's of certain groups of people or lefties, it's everyone's rights. Going back to the French again, some protesting about the retirement age would have been younger people who it wouldn't have affected but they still supported eachother in solidarity. Here people are so gaslit they just follow the narrative and toe the government line and turn against their fellow people. No wonder we live in a country with fewer rights, poverty and huge inequality compared to our neighbours, and now turning more and more racist.....

 

[jcdenton08]

The government need enough of the public on side and use the weight of the media to demonise and paint people as loonies and not like them. With enough people on side they have the green light to erode people's rights, freedom of movement, right to protest, workers rights, on the path towards authoritarianism.

An attack on people's right to protest is an attack on everyone. They don't say they will kerb the right's of certain groups of people or lefties, it's everyone's rights. Going back to the French again, some protesting about the retirement age would have been younger people who it wouldn't have affected but they still supported eachother in solidarity. Here people are so gaslit they just follow the narrative and toe the government line and turn against their fellow people. No wonder we live in a country with fewer rights, poverty and huge inequality compared to our neighbours, and now turning more and more racist.....

It really isn’t helpful to any cause to describe people opposing your view as being “gaslit”, per my post above. It disregards people’s legitimate concerns, and while their view may be alien to you, the key to winning hearts and minds is the art of the possible. The middle ground. The pragmatic, factual, unemotional vigour of truth and balance.

In one fell swoop branding everyone who disagrees as stupid, or tricked, or without a conscience - regardless of the topic - only hardens their resolve and their ears and minds close as they are being lectured to about how dumb/uncaring/naive they are.

It. Doesn’t. Work.

 

[nicko31]

It really isn’t helpful to any cause to describe people opposing your view as being “gaslit”, per my post above. It disregards people’s legitimate concerns, and while their view may be alien to you, the key to winning hearts and minds is the art of the possible. The middle ground. The pragmatic, factual, unemotional vigour of truth and balance.

In one fell swoop branding everyone who disagrees as stupid, or tricked, or without a conscience - regardless of the topic - only hardens their resolve and their ears and minds close as they are being lectured to about how dumb/uncaring/naive they are.

It. Doesn’t. Work.

Do you think the government have discovered "the middle ground" by essentially curbing the right to peaceful protest?

 

[jcdenton08]

Do you think the government have discovered "the middle ground" by essentially curbing the right to peaceful protest?

I think the government are completely useless and out of order in their forcing through such a draconian law.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Do you think the government have discovered "the middle ground" by essentially curbing the right to peaceful protest?

Doesn't that depend on how you define "peaceful protest"? For example, one of the things the government has clamped down on is walking slowly along the road holding up the traffic. Is my right to stop you driving a greater right than your right to drive?

Freedoms have to work in all directions. There was someone on the Coronation/National Anthem thread complaining that he was shut up when he tried to disrupt the national anthem. His claim was essentially that freedom of speech means he has the right to drown out (or try to) the views of all those he disagrees with. That's the way these protestors tend to work, as far as I can see anyway - they reckon that they are indisputably right, people who disagree are indisputably wrong, and therefore those disagreers must expect their rights to be obstructed.

 

[Randy McNob]

Doesn't that depend on how you define "peaceful protest"? For example, one of the things the government has clamped down on is walking slowly along the road holding up the traffic. Is my right to stop you driving a greater right than your right to drive?

Freedoms have to work in all directions. There was someone on the Coronation/National Anthem thread complaining that he was shut up when he tried to disrupt the national anthem. His claim was essentially that freedom of speech means he has the right to drown out (or try to) the views of all those he disagrees with. That's the way these protestors tend to work, as far as I can see anyway - they reckon that they are indisputably right, people who disagree are indisputably wrong, and therefore those disagreers must expect their rights to be obstructed.

Driving isn't a right, protesting is.

On your 2nd point seems you have taken an extreme view and applied it across the board. Anyway, at the coronation most people are there to see the parade and fanfare, protesters are there to protest so they have a right to demonstrate and protest. The other people don't have rights because they are not there to protest unless their civil rights have been infringed as a result. You seem to assume everyone else who isn't protesting disagrees with their views?

 

[birthofanorange]

Going back to the French again, some protesting about the retirement age would have been younger people who it wouldn't have affected but they still supported eachother in solidarity.

Surely it will affect the younger people, as the retirement age will be raised?

 

[Rdodge30]

The other people don't have rights because they are not there to protest

 

[Rdodge30]

I saw plenty of people cheering on the French protests, some saying that the English should be more like it. I saw the businesses with their shop windows smashed - apparently a protest against the government!

 

[Randy McNob]

I saw plenty of people cheering on the French protests, some saying that the English should be more like it. I saw the businesses with their shop windows smashed - apparently a protest against the government!

May I remind you of the poll tax riots - brought change and brought down Thatcher

 

[dsr-burnley]

Driving isn't a right, protesting is.

On your 2nd point seems you have taken an extreme view and applied it across the board. Anyway, at the coronation most people are there to see the parade and fanfare, protesters are there to protest so they have a right to demonstrate and protest. The other people don't have rights because they are not there to protest unless their civil rights have been infringed as a result. You seem to assume everyone else who isn't protesting disagrees with their views?

Of course driving is a right. As long as you have a licence and a vehicle and are fit and competent, you have the right to drive. I have no idea where you are coming from with that one.

 

[wellquickwoody]

So the Karens, cabbies, builders, and red faced gammons should probably stop doing it when confronted by a peaceful protest.

Behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace etc etc, could be levelled at the protestors I guess.

 

[Pevenseagull]

Yup, we did that!

Great day out that. Highlight for me was a York City fan swapping shirts with one of our supporters on the pitch.

Marvellous scenes.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Doesn't that depend on how you define "peaceful protest"? For example, one of the things the government has clamped down on is walking slowly along the road holding up the traffic. Is my right to stop you driving a greater right than your right to drive?

Freedoms have to work in all directions. There was someone on the Coronation/National Anthem thread complaining that he was shut up when he tried to disrupt the national anthem. His claim was essentially that freedom of speech means he has the right to drown out (or try to) the views of all those he disagrees with. That's the way these protestors tend to work, as far as I can see anyway - they reckon that they are indisputably right, people who disagree are indisputably wrong, and therefore those disagreers must expect their rights to be obstructed.

Protestors getting arrested for holding up pieces of card with Not my King, or even worse, blank cards.
Cameramen, and press getting arrested, with their equipment confiscated but you want to moan about someone in a road, who incidentally, advertise on their own website, the location of their protest, 24 hours in advance.
If you don’t want to sit in a traffic jame, check out your route before you go.