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[News] Just Stop Oil
- Thread starter dazzer6666
- Start date
The Clamp
Well-known member
Pain compliance has its place. It’s not used very often anymore, there are far more effective techniques for restraining people which don’t involve any deliberately inflicted pain.
Police aren’t trained very well in these methods. It’s why you often see numbers of officers struggling to restrain and cuff suspects. They are trying to grab a thumb or a wrist to administer pain compliance. Very tricky to do when someone is struggling or throwing fists.
It shouldn’t be used on already compliant people.
I can’t tell what has lead up to the events in that video but I’d like to hear the explanation for using pain compliance at a peaceful protest.
And I’d rather this sort of thing was what Sunak was holding police to account for.
Police aren’t trained very well in these methods. It’s why you often see numbers of officers struggling to restrain and cuff suspects. They are trying to grab a thumb or a wrist to administer pain compliance. Very tricky to do when someone is struggling or throwing fists.
It shouldn’t be used on already compliant people.
I can’t tell what has lead up to the events in that video but I’d like to hear the explanation for using pain compliance at a peaceful protest.
And I’d rather this sort of thing was what Sunak was holding police to account for.
The police used to be trained in Jujitsu, I believe.
Not a trick question, tapping your knowledge, how could the police physically clear protestors resisting and making themselves a deadweight?
The Clamp
Well-known member
I don’t know about the ju-jitsu thing. Probably fairly useless outside of a do-Jo.
In answer to you’re second question, more police trained in how to move people who are using tactics like dead weight.
Sometimes that can involve pain compliance. if used properly and proportionately, the suspect is the one in control. Become compliant and the pain stops.
In this case, nothing unreasonable is being asked if the protesters. They are not being forced to do anything humiliating or unusual. Comply and moderate pain ends.
Billy the Fish
Technocrat
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Billy the Fish
Technocrat
I think you’ll find, as per the post I quoted, your response to a reference to police brutality was “Yes, it’s brilliant”. It’s literally written there.
Justice
Dangerous Idiot
There won’t be any appointments to worry about when the planets burning.
Justice
Dangerous Idiot
And not the sharpest in the box either.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 7,294
You obviously don’t remember the miners strikes or the Poll Tax riots if you think climbing on a plane and sitting in a road are ‘non-peaceful’ demonstrations!
I honestly don’t know what point you think you are making here anyway - I already said that I agreed people should get arrested for criminal behaviour- perhaps you didnt see that part of my post?
My concerns are as someone who has been involved in civil and human rights advocacy over the years and not about whether or not one agrees with JSOs tactics but rather the way our freedoms are being more and more restricted- I have been saying for fcuking years and years (actually since the early 1990s) that the response to violent protest won’t be arresting a few protesters, it will be that one day we will be living in a police state where the freedom of expression is all but gone. When (usually Tory) governments have have rolled back civil liberties in this country, those laws apply to everyone, not just violent protestors. We have already seen our Home Secretary again this week, trying to ban Peace marches in what is clearly an ultra vires use of her powers and could legitimately be subject to judicial review of her actions in the courts. She is already under Judicial Review for slipping some draconian anti-demonstration curtailments into law by the back door and circumventing parliament, so there is a real precedent here that one day, what civil liberties we have left won’t even afford us the right to sit in a road.
Court grants permission for Liberty legal action against Home Secretary - Liberty
www.libertyhumanrights.org.uk
Anyway thats a different issue to what the thread is really about so I’ll bow out of it now
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Billy the Fish
Technocrat
You haven't got the right to sit in the f***ing road! Never have done and never will do.
Billy the Fish
Technocrat
Just for you, in simple terms:
They're all pricks, anyone who condones or enables them is a prick, it gives me great pleasure to see them being dealt with by the police and the courts.
Taken in isolation, that's clearly a ludicrous statement.
I'd go outside and prove it wrong right now if I didn't have a cold.
Which is exactly the sort of limp wristed attitude that sees our civil liberties watered down.
Oh god, I'm the problem
- Oct 20, 2022
- 7,294
Again, you must have missed me saying anyone that breaks the law deserves to be arrested …and not once either, have I said I thought that JSO weren’t causing grief and upset to people or a great amount of inconvenience because they obviously are.
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- Oct 20, 2022
- 7,294
Seriously?
So you think it is ok for civil freedoms to be severely restricted and random police brutality is ‘perfectly reasonable’ if someone has been caught allegedly committing a crime? Note I said ‘allegedly’ - no one has ‘committed a crime’ until it has been proven in law - (unless you think we should suspend the right to habeas corpus too?)
The Clamp
Well-known member
I 100 % agree with you that civil liberties are being eroded by the Tory’s. And quite deliberately so. From press freedom to the right to protest.
Having said that, blocking traffic by sitting in the road has always been unlawful and the police have historically been a lot more brutal with these type of protesters than they currently are.
Nobody who sits in the road, blocking traffic has ever been allowed to do so.
As an aside, if they tried it in most countries it would be batons out and sore heads time.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 7,294
Totally agree - and I was referring to the right to protest not the right to sit in the road as I clarified above.
Nothing I have said contradicts that - I have reiterated that several times unlawful behaviour should be punished - but people do have a right to protest in this country still as far as I’m aware but if they break the law, then they should pay the price - Thats all I have said -I’m literally confused why someone (actually quite a few posters) are trying to construct straw arguments in response to me raising concerns about our civil liberties under this disgraceful Tory Government - at least 3 times, I have said the protesters deserve to be held accountable in law if they are found to have broken it. Not once have I defended their tactics BUT i have said we must be aware that our civil liberties are being eroded.
I get the feeling some people want to throw any protester in jail, after a good kicking from the police that is, without due process because they personally have been inconvenienced - and some it seems want to ban protest altogether.
Maybe people really would be happier living in a fascist dictatorship I suppose, then they wouldnt have to think for themselves, it would be done for them.
The Clamp
Well-known member
Sorry, didn’t mean to misrepresent you.Totally agree - and I was referring to the right to protest not the right to sit in the road as I clarified above.
Nothing I have said contradicts that - I have reiterated that several times - but people do have a right to protest in this country still as far as I’m aware but if they break the law, then they should pay the price - Thats all I have said -I’m literally confused why someone (actually quite a few posters) are trying to construct straw arguments in response to me raising concerns about our civil liberties under this disgraceful Tory Government - at least 3 times, I have said the protesters deserve to be held accountable in law if they are found to have broken it. Not once have I defended their tactics BUT i have said we must be aware that our civil liberties are being eroded.
I get the feeling some people want to throw any protester in jail, after a good kicking from the police that is, without due process because they personally have been inconvenienced - and some it seems want to ban protest altogether.
Maybe people really would be happier living in a fascist dictatorship I suppose, then they wouldnt have to think for themselves, it would be done for them.