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Junior doctors strike.
- Thread starter BLOCK F
- Start date
- Jan 3, 2012
- 17,357
I think it is about politics in that they are doing it because they care about the Health Service and what is happening to it.
I don't think it is about pay.
Paul Reids Sock
Well-known member
I think it is split.
There are some for whom it is all about pay. the ones that have posted their payslips online and complained. One of whom was on some incredible wage and still complaining.
There are others who genuinely feel it is a safety issue
There are others that see it as a way to try and ruin the publics faith in the NHS, as sympathy is lost the public will support less and Private healthcare will pounce. They feel it is a first step toward privitising the health service.
Apologies - my wife is a nurse. I end up discussing this a lot. With the final option I do say that by having longer and more strikes they are helping to damage public relations but I am shot down as I 'don't know what I am talking about'.
There are some for whom it is all about pay. the ones that have posted their payslips online and complained. One of whom was on some incredible wage and still complaining.
There are others who genuinely feel it is a safety issue
There are others that see it as a way to try and ruin the publics faith in the NHS, as sympathy is lost the public will support less and Private healthcare will pounce. They feel it is a first step toward privitising the health service.
Apologies - my wife is a nurse. I end up discussing this a lot. With the final option I do say that by having longer and more strikes they are helping to damage public relations but I am shot down as I 'don't know what I am talking about'.
pb21
Well-known member
- Apr 23, 2010
- 6,689
So you think the strikes are all about politics and pay?!
- Thread starter
- #5
Funny way to show they care about the NHS.and patients.
By the way, does your daughter support the latest strike proposals? It looks like many junior doctors do not.
- Thread starter
- #6
Largely, yes. There is no justification for the proposed actions.
Totally disproportionate as many in the medical profession have stated.
How come Ellen McCourt, only a few weeks ago, was leading negotiations with her colleague Johann Malawanha, signed everthing off and stated that it was a fair deal and now she is saying 'Oh no it wasn't, it is so awful, we need to go on rolling 5 day strikes.'
What a dreadful position to take; and this from a caring profession.
The NHS already has alarming vacancies for junior doctors, nurses, therapists, consultants and GPs. Jeremy Hunt's deliberate unevidence based unfunded fantasy of a 'cost neutral' seven-day NHS is laughable. Presently over 25% of paediatric posts at trainee level and vacant, over half of paediatric units are below recommended staffing standards, and the additional work is being undertaken by consultants, taking them away from more advanced treatments.
The leaders of the BMA screwed up. They agreed in the end to Hunt's claim that you can create safer weekends without extra staffing or funding.
At present the NHS is suffering as a result of Osborne's austerity plans which flatlined NHS income, despite an ageing, fatter population, with the attendant impact that that has on NHS resources. As a consequence there has been a huge reduction in social care and mental health services.
People are right to be cynical about giving the NHS an open chequebook that ends up being spent on unproven political fantasies and the legal and management consultancy fees that are associated with them. If people saw such funding going on frontline services then I am sure they would be willing to contribute more. It's just as well we have an extra £350 million a week coming to the NHS after Brexit occurs.
What is needed is sense from both sides. Hunt should withdraw the imposition of the new contracts. Instead he should sanction a rigorous evidence based evaluation of the changes that are feasible, necessary and affordable for the NHS. The BMA should take heed of its members, with whom it seems to have lost touch, when negotiations hopefully return. .
It takes five years to train a junior doctor, eight years to complete paediatric training, it's scandalous that there are so many vacancies unfilled, but no surprise given Hunt's continued behaviour and misrepresentations.
The leaders of the BMA screwed up. They agreed in the end to Hunt's claim that you can create safer weekends without extra staffing or funding.
At present the NHS is suffering as a result of Osborne's austerity plans which flatlined NHS income, despite an ageing, fatter population, with the attendant impact that that has on NHS resources. As a consequence there has been a huge reduction in social care and mental health services.
People are right to be cynical about giving the NHS an open chequebook that ends up being spent on unproven political fantasies and the legal and management consultancy fees that are associated with them. If people saw such funding going on frontline services then I am sure they would be willing to contribute more. It's just as well we have an extra £350 million a week coming to the NHS after Brexit occurs.
What is needed is sense from both sides. Hunt should withdraw the imposition of the new contracts. Instead he should sanction a rigorous evidence based evaluation of the changes that are feasible, necessary and affordable for the NHS. The BMA should take heed of its members, with whom it seems to have lost touch, when negotiations hopefully return. .
It takes five years to train a junior doctor, eight years to complete paediatric training, it's scandalous that there are so many vacancies unfilled, but no surprise given Hunt's continued behaviour and misrepresentations.
- Thread starter
- #8
Hi Paul Reid's Boot; I too come from a medical family and am truly appalled by what is going on.
Everybody knows that the NHS formed in 1948 cannot carry on as it is, but I really do not feel that this kind of action by the junior doctors is, in any way shape or form , helpful or justified.
- Thread starter
- #9
There are , as we know, plenty of problems within the NHS and I am sure that everyone who cares about it will agree. I just wish that we could stop treating it as the 'New Religion'( yes, I know this is an overused description) and politicians of all colours, medics and managers would develop the collective balls and say publicly, the NHS cannot carry on as it is, we need to reform it.Then perhaps, some of the best brains in the country could work towards making the organisation fit for our children, grandchildren and beyond.
I just feel that the junior doctors are harming the profession and are doing nothing constructive in the meantime.
You refer to Hunt's continued behaviour and misrepresentations. Hmmm, well, what do you say about the behaviour and misrepresentations coming forth from the militants in the BMA?
Brian Fantana
Well-known member
Both sides of this argument should take a long, hard look at themselves and how they are behaving - pretty shameful on both sides. As stated above, Hunt needs to withdraw his threat to impose the contract and the doctors need to call off their strikes and re-open talks with the government.
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Some of the leadership of the BMA are plums.
However, my experience of JDs is that the vast majority of them are highly intelligent, caring, committed professionals, who can easily see through the BS of the militants.
Brian Fantana
Well-known member
It's undoubtedly a very difficult situation, but I can't envisage being a healthcare professional and not going into work when I know there are patients relying on my presence there. IMHO, the JDs are really, really risking losing public support and sympathy by striking.
Is this about who closes the operating theatre doors?
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,026
the doctors maintain they already provide a 7 day service, so it wont need more staff right?
having read/listened to half a dozen articles the last week, i dont know what the strike is about anymore and neither do the doctors i believe, with inconsistency between interviewee's views, and the BMA supporting a proposal that has been rejected by the members. its a mess and on that basis alone they should cease any action and regroup behind a solid grievance.
Yup, they are going to be inconvenienced. My son is due to go for an operation next Thursday, he's been waiting for four years. Heaven knows when it will be rescheduled.
If Hunt withdraws the imposition of the contract, then the strike is off. Ball is in his court.
We currently have a seven day a week A&E service, there isn't the same for social care, GP surgeries, mental health services, paediatrics etc.
Brian Fantana
Well-known member
Just as easily, the JDs could agree to further talks - and actually take a bit of time to summarise their grievances in a logical manner. It's very much a two-way street on this one, IMHO.
Paul Reids Sock
Well-known member
Completely agree, the NHS needs a total revamp and to do this the parties need to come together and work it out. My fear is that they would rather let the NHS die than put their party differences behind them. The TTIP fiasco has shown there is at minimum thought about privatising further sections. The local running of trusts is awful with reports of people such as Ernst and Young (leaches) being paid £10-15million to complete cost cutting analysis when a team of 3-4 permanent Continuous Improvement Analysts would have been able to do the same at a much reduced cost whilst ensuring it was sustainable. I am by no means an expert on healthcare but it does appear to me that there are far too many people that don;t understand healthcare in the upper echelons of management.
Neither side in this debacle has gone about it correctly, and I am really concerned that firstly the Government went down the route of publicly saying they would enforce the contracts and secondly that the JDs have felt the need to go this far with so many strikes.
The thing that summed it up for me the other day was a picture of Brexit being discussed at 'Chequers'. these people surrounded with lavish furnashings in a country retreat are massively out of touch with the man on the street let alone the man in the hospital ward.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,026
i know, but you don't hear the doctors making that distinction when they talk about that issue. one on the radio was wittering on about the strike being about "consistency of service", which means nothing, and another going on about lack of canteen in the early hours. the subtext is the need for other parts of the NHS being available 7 days a week but seems no doctor will explicitly say that, presumably because it looks like deflecting on to others.
it also seems the principle of the imposition of the change is a sticking point, one can say the government needs to withdraw that, but they then have to find some other way to achieve their aim, all the while overlooking they need to put forward a overall strategy to achieve the aims, not try a piecemeal approach.