Junior doctors strike.

[El Presidente]

Just as easily, the JDs could agree to further talks - and actually take a bit of time to summarise their grievances in a logical manner. It's very much a two-way street on this one, IMHO.

I think the BMA leadership has been poor, but the undercurrent of dissatisfaction upon regular JDs, who, let's be honest, are not by nature militant, is a genuine concern.

I'm a union member for another union and to be honest we end up with the leaders we deserve, mostly through apathy. They don't tend to be the smartest, the most articulate, or reflect the views of the majority, but then the same could be said of our politicians.

The BMA recommended the deal, the members voted against it.

 

[El Presidente]

i know, but you don't hear the doctors making that distinction when they talk about that issue. one on the radio was wittering on about the strike being about "consistency of service", which means nothing, and another going on about lack of canteen in the early hours. the subtext is the need for other parts of the NHS being available 7 days a week but seems no doctor will explicitly say that, presumably because it looks like deflecting on to others.

it also seems the principle of the imposition of the change is a sticking point, one can say the government needs to withdraw that, but they then have to find some other way to achieve their aim, all the while overlooking they need to put forward a overall strategy to achieve the aims, not try a piecemeal approach.

I agree with you entirely. Surely there is a bigger issue here, do we actually need a 7 day all singing, all dancing, all services NHS? Hunt's deliberate misreading of the evidence (most weekend admissions are emergencies rather than outpatients, and consequently tend to be more serious, thus would be associated with higher mortality rates) is politically motivated rather than being patient focussed.

If Hunt and Cameron had been serious about a seven day service then he should have sanctioned the creation of more medical schools as soon as the coalition came to office, to provide the extra capacity in terms of the supply of medical staff. This didn't take place because it was at odds with Osborne's austerity program.

What we have is a carefully manipulated fudge aimed as being seen as delivering on a pre-election manifesto, without being properly budgeted, funded or planned.

 

[Paul Reids Sock]

i know, but you don't hear the doctors making that distinction when they talk about that issue. one on the radio was wittering on about the strike being about "consistency of service", which means nothing, and another going on about lack of canteen in the early hours. the subtext is the need for other parts of the NHS being available 7 days a week but seems no doctor will explicitly say that, presumably because it looks like deflecting on to others.

it also seems the principle of the imposition of the change is a sticking point, one can say the government needs to withdraw that, but they then have to find some other way to achieve their aim, all the while overlooking they need to put forward a overall strategy to achieve the aims, not try a piecemeal approach.

Anyone complaining about the lack of a canteen in the early hours really needs to take a look at themselves. My last two employers have a load of people on 24 hour working and the canteen closes at 5. My wife does a number of night shifts as a Paediatric Nurse and they don't have a canteen. So .. she takes a packed lunch/breakfast/midnight feast.

If they were complaining about the fact that they don't get a lunch break at all to even know if there was a canteen open then I would understand, but that is quite frankly a ridiculous argument!

 

[El Presidente]

If they were complaining about the fact that they don't get a lunch break at all to even know if there was a canteen open then I would understand, but that is quite frankly a ridiculous argument!

Agreed, but can't believe that is the reason why 98% of them voted for the original strike and 58% rejected the agreed contract between Hunt and the BMA leadership.

 

[BLOCK F]

Agreed, but can't believe that is the reason why 98% of them voted for the original strike and 68% rejected the agreed contract between Hunt and the BMA leadership.

I am sure it was a 58% vote on a 68% turnout.

 

[El Presidente]

Apparently it's all the fault of my lot at Universities, we are deliberately only recruiting goggle eyed communists to train as doctors.

http://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/laura-perrins-why-did-our-medical-schools-choose-this-bunch-of-sanctimonious-lefties-as-tomorrows-doctors/

 

[El Presidente]

I am sure it was a 58% vote on a 68% turnout.

Apologies, you were correct, it was 58%.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I agree with you entirely. Surely there is a bigger issue here, do we actually need a 7 day all singing, all dancing, all services NHS?

Uh, yes? Need a level quality of care across all seven days shirley? How do you choose what day you fall sick?

Reckon there should be some special measures put in place for weekend post-pub drunks though. Those c*nts turn A&E into a three ring circus every single weekend

 

[beorhthelm]

If they were complaining about the fact that they don't get a lunch break at all to even know if there was a canteen open then I would understand, but that is quite frankly a ridiculous argument!

of course it's ridiculous, but that's the level the debate has sunk to. with the BMA/government agreeing to a deal, individual doctors are doing media interviews without a real message. each of the original grievances has been addressed, they are left with the imposition and nothing else to argue with i suppose.

 

[scamander]

there was an interesting piece in the previous Private Eye concerning a court case being brought against Hunt by some Junior Doctors. The massaged stats which haven't, for some reason, been as highlighted as I thought (the report stating the rise in deaths over the weekend had been someone skewed in order to make that point, the original report included the Friday and Monday) won't do well in front of a judge. Hearing is on the 20th September, we shall wait and see.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Apparently it's all the fault of my lot at Universities, we are deliberately only recruiting goggle eyed communists to train as doctors.

http://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/laura-perrins-why-did-our-medical-schools-choose-this-bunch-of-sanctimonious-lefties-as-tomorrows-doctors/

Wow. That's almost satire.

 

[Ernest]

there was an interesting piece in the previous Private Eye concerning a court case being brought against Hunt by some Junior Doctors. The massaged stats which haven't, for some reason, been as highlighted as I thought (the report stating the rise in deaths over the weekend had been someone skewed in order to make that point, the original report included the Friday and Monday) won't do well in front of a judge. Hearing is on the 20th September, we shall wait and see.

Isn't that case to do with Hunt's right or not to impose the new contract ?

 

[El Presidente]

Uh, yes? Need a level quality of care across all seven days shirley? How do you choose what day you fall sick?

Reckon there should be some special measures put in place for weekend post-pub drunks though. Those c*nts turn A&E into a three ring circus every single weekend

If you fall sick you have access to A&E and out of hours GP care.

Not sure you need 7 day a week care for BUNIONS.

If you are going to provide 7 day a week care, do you think it should be funded from a five day a week budget?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Not sure you need 7 day a week care for BUNIONS.

Well I think we can agree on that one.

 

[El Presidente]

If people genuinely cared about the NHS, then stop eating processed foods, cut down on sugar, salt and red meat, get off your arses and get some exercise. Don't take little Johnny to A&E because he has a cough on a Saturday or call for an ambulance because you had twelve pints and a prawn chimichanga from a street market stall the previous night and now have an arse as red as the Batmobile's exhaust.

10% of the NHS budget goes on treating diabetes, which in the majority of cases is lifestyle self inflicted.

Even with the extra £350 million a week that is coming to the NHS thanks to the Brexit vote the diabetes cost is unsustainable.

 

[pb21]

If you are going to provide 7 day a week care, do you think it should be funded from a five day a week budget?

I think this is the crux of it for me. The resources are going to be spread far too thinly IMO.

 

[Brian Fantana]

If you fall sick you have access to A&E and out of hours GP care.

Not sure you need 7 day a week care for BUNIONS.

If you are going to provide 7 day a week care, do you think it should be funded from a five day a week budget?

An important underlying point is that whilst you do have access to emergency treatment 7 days a week, the level of care at weekends (including access to tests and consultants) is not the same as during the week. The fact that you're more likely to die if you're admitted at the weekend has got to be addressed IMHO.

 

[amexee]

Nurses, cleaners, catering staff, porters etc all have to work weekends, not sure why doctors feel they are more deserving of weekends off, to be honest.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Nurses, cleaners, catering staff, porters etc all have to work weekends, not sure why doctors feel they are more deserving of weekends off, to be honest.

What the ****? They don't have weekends off. Are you mad?

 

[Brian Fantana]

What the ****? They don't have weekends off. Are you mad?

This is a separate debate, but a lot of consultants won't be found on call or in the hospitals on a weekend.