[Football] Jordan Henderson - Saudi move not about the money

[Baldseagull]

Why is it only the government that matters when we are deciding who is and isn’t morally acceptable? Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Saudi are in anyway, but we should be recognising when others truly aren’t either.

Violent crime against LGBTQ+ is rising as per the stats ACLED and we know that the USA is a place where these things spill into deaths. See the shooting at the rally for instance. When the law isn’t upheld and the police aren’t trusted then the laws are pointless Reuters

Which MLS club is owned by fascists, trying to look respectable?

 

[Baldseagull]

If it wasn't about the money, he can prove that by donating the portion of his wage that is over and above his Liverpool wage to whatever good cause would assuage his guilt.

 

[clapham_gull]

Terrible regime, but how many of us would be hypocrites in attacking him.

Does your company sell goods or services to Saudi ?

The reality of our economy is only gives a flying f#### about a country if it at war with them. If it's at war with some of it's people we generally don't care.

Also where are the lines ? Is it ok to work for/with a Saudi company ? If the company is effectively bankrolled by the regime does that make it different ?

I don't work for a Saudi company or one that supplies services to it. But like many of us, inevitably we sometimes provide products to countries that fall way below our expectations in the West.

 

[Baldseagull]

Terrible regime, but how many of us would be hypocrites in attacking him.

Does your company sell goods or services to Saudi ?

The reality of our economy is only gives a flying f#### about a country if it at war with them. If it's at war with some of it's people we generally don't care.

Also where are the lines ? Is it ok to work for/with a Saudi company ? If the company is effectively bankrolled by the regime does that make it different ?

I don't work for a Saudi company or one that supplies services to it. But like many of us, inevitably we sometimes provide products to countries that fall way below our expectations in the West.

I personally wouldn't take a penny from a Saudi Company, but also would not berate someone who did. But Henderson is not just improving profits for a company, he is now part of the Saudi PR machine, trying to soften their image without softening their approach.

 

[BadFish]

Definitely one of those interviews that would have been better to just not do.

You can't defend the indefensible and all that.

I don't really blame him for going, surely all morals are for sale at some price, and he has been offered some price! But don't try and pretend otherwise you silly sausage, you might be able to convince yourself while admiring your bank balance but the rest of us aren't going to be quite so easily swayed.

Tit.

 

[trueblue]

Terrible regime, but how many of us would be hypocrites in attacking him.

Does your company sell goods or services to Saudi ?

The reality of our economy is only gives a flying f#### about a country if it at war with them. If it's at war with some of it's people we generally don't care.

Also where are the lines ? Is it ok to work for/with a Saudi company ? If the company is effectively bankrolled by the regime does that make it different ?

I don't work for a Saudi company or one that supplies services to it. But like many of us, inevitably we sometimes provide products to countries that fall way below our expectations in the West.

I think the line is pretty clear in this instance. If you’re already a multimillionaire, you’re in the very privileged position of being able to take a moral stance when you decide on your next career move. It’s an imperfect world which most of us can do little about. Nobody has forced an already very rich man to become a public apologist for a brutal regime.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

A perfect case of "thou doth protest too much".

 

[BadFish]

Terrible regime, but how many of us would be hypocrites in attacking him.

Does your company sell goods or services to Saudi ?

The reality of our economy is only gives a flying f#### about a country if it at war with them. If it's at war with some of it's people we generally don't care.

Also where are the lines ? Is it ok to work for/with a Saudi company ? If the company is effectively bankrolled by the regime does that make it different ?

I don't work for a Saudi company or one that supplies services to it. But like many of us, inevitably we sometimes provide products to countries that fall way below our expectations in the West.

The line is different for everyone as the Qatar world cup showed.

What the Henderson situation shows us is that the line is also changeable in different situations.

Most on this recognise this and the main criticism appears to be about his attempts to justify his decision rather than the decision it's self.

 

[Doc Lynam]

I personally wouldn't take a penny from a Saudi Company, but also would not berate someone who did. But Henderson is not just improving profits for a company, he is now part of the Saudi PR machine, trying to soften their image without softening their approach.

Unfortunately he probably doesn’t realise or recognise this. Much like Newcastle United supporters.

 

[aolstudios]

Unfortunately he probably doesn’t realise or recognise this. Much like Newcastle United supporters.

Or refuses to.
Much like Newcastle United supporters

 

[trueblue]

I think it’s important the criticism of the Saudis doesn’t focus solely on LGBTQ+ issues. During the Qatar World Cup, I heard from a friend well-connected with their top PR people that all the outrage over rainbow armbands was actually quite helpful. It largely crowded out the stuff Qatar really didn’t want to talk about - workers dying and corruption.

I totally agree the Saudis’ treatment of homosexuality is abhorrent but that issue resonates here far more than it does worldwide. It felt pretty obvious in Qatar that the Middle Eastern countries, and many beyond, really couldn’t understand the fuss. If anything, it crystallised an anti-Western stance and defence of their ‘values’.

I’d venture there are billions of people across the planet who still view homosexuality as fundamentally ‘wrong’. It’s difficult then to see that being the issue that creates enough pressure to deliver meaningful change and yet it tends to dominate popular Western media coverage. In the eyes of much of the world, sadly the Saudis can claim it’s a ‘cultural’ difference and brush off criticism as ‘racist’, content that it’s distracting from other atrocities.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I think it’s important the criticism of the Saudis doesn’t focus solely on LGBTQ+ issues. During the Qatar World Cup, I heard from a friend well-connected with their top PR people that all the outrage over rainbow armbands was actually quite helpful. It largely crowded out the stuff Qatar really didn’t want to talk about - workers dying and corruption.

This isn’t true though. Workers dying and corruption was very much at the front of the argument in the year/s or so before the tournament. It’s fanciful for your well-connected friend to thing this way.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I’d venture there are billions of people across the planet who still view homosexuality as fundamentally ‘wrong’.

Viewing something as Wrong, and supporting a regime which puts you in prison are very different. There’s things I don’t agree with but I wouldn’t want people put in prison for it….not all them anyway.

 

[El Presidente]

Textbook media bear trap.

Nothing wrong with saying he went for the money, but like LIV and golf trying to claim there are other motivations is only going to make you look silly.

 

[trueblue]

This isn’t true though. Workers dying and corruption was very much at the front of the argument in the year/s or so before the tournament. It’s fanciful for your well-connected friend to thing this way

Not at all fanciful. I was there for the duration and that’s definitely how their people viewed it. You’re right that there was plenty of adverse pre-publicity about the tournament which continued in some publications. It’s a fact though that once the football began, that was massively overtaken in the mass media and online by the huge publicity for the armbands issue, rainbow flags, the Germany team’s protest, journalists being refused entry and so on. It was a great relief for them to see the focus switch in that way, knowing a lot of the world is equally bigoted and didn’t really give a toss about gay rights.

 

[trueblue]

Viewing something as Wrong, and supporting a regime which puts you in prison are very different. There’s things I don’t agree with but I wouldn’t want people put in prison for it….not all them anyway.

A lot of those billions won’t necessarily agree people should be put in prison for it but still shrug their shoulders that the Saudis do. Our Western perspective is very different to many other countries I’ve been to.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Good to see some players making a stand.

Toni Kroos names one reason why he will never play in Saudi

All things Blancos: latest news and instant scores, video highlights and stats, transfer rumors and expert opinions at Tribuna.com

tribuna.com

"I would never go to Saudi Arabia because of the lack of human rights," the German midfielder added.

Wouldn’t happen in Germany.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

A lot of those billions won’t necessarily agree people should be put in prison for it but still shrug their shoulders that the Saudis do. Our Western perspective is very different to many other countries I’ve been to.

There are fundamentals in life which should be the right of everyone, cultural difference shouldn’t not even come into it. LGBTQ+ is one of them. If it’s currently a western perspective, then we carry on until it isn’t.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Not at all fanciful. I was there for the duration and that’s definitely how their people viewed it. You’re right that there was plenty of adverse pre-publicity about the tournament which continued in some publications. It’s a fact though that once the football began, that was massively overtaken in the mass media and online by the huge publicity for the armbands issue, rainbow flags, the Germany team’s protest, journalists being refused entry and so on. It was a great relief for them to see the focus switch in that way, knowing a lot of the world is equally bigoted and didn’t really give a toss about gay rights.

I’m not denying focus was more on the rainbow armbands at the time of the tournament, it was. I’m stating it’s fanciful to believe it was a useful detraction from other issues…it clearly wasn’t as these were covered for months and years ahead of the tournament. Unless you think a few weeks of rainbow arm bands makes everyone forget everything else?

 

[Live by the sea]

This isn’t true though. Workers dying and corruption was very much at the front of the argument in the year/s or so before the tournament. It’s fanciful for your well-connected friend to thing this way.

Let’s face it the Saudis have a bad reputation pretty much across the board so human rights on all fronts is an issue in Saudi . They probably paid lip service to it before the World Cup but I bet people are still dying in the construction industry over there now that they are out of the media glare of the World Cup .