[Film] Joker

[Uncle Spielberg]

Looking forward to seeing your synopsis. I know you're a big fan of The Machinist, and the extraordinary central performance of Christian Bale in that film. This, IMO, is absolutely up there with that. Phoenix grips every scene, he is utterly mesmerising and completely inhabits and owns this role. As Mark Kermode said: "I didn't think ANYONE could do the Joker again after Heath Ledger. I was wrong". Joker in this film is infinitely more believable than the (brilliant) but more cartoonish character played by Ledger. This one is out there for real, you see him evolve in a completely plausible way. And thats what makes him so disturbing, and in the end, terrifying.

Bale in the Machinist was indeed at a completely different level for me. Also he was magnificent in American Psycho

 

[OzMike]

I saw this yesterday and was blown away.
Brilliant portrayal of the character's developement and you can see the potential for the evolution into the cartoon villain as portrayed by Ledger.
Totally absorbed for every minute, has to be an oscar performance there.

 

[Easy 10]

I saw this yesterday and was blown away.
Brilliant portrayal of the character's developement and you can see the potential for the evolution into the cartoon villain as portrayed by Ledger.
Totally absorbed for every minute, has to be an oscar performance there.

Agreed. That was an Oscar-worthy performance.

Part of me wants this to stay as a stand-alone film though. Its so good, it just doesn't need sequels where JP's Joker would go down an inevitably more cartoonish route into the Batman "supervillain" universe. The power of this film was in its grim realism. This guy is not a criminal mastermind. He doesn't have ambitions of ruling Gotham, although you could probably build a case, and a script, of him wanting vengeance against the city after how it treated him.

I'm torn. On the one hand, I'd love to see another Phoenix performance of Joker. But what made this film so great is that it WASN'T yet another tiresome superhero movie. I don't think this should launch another franchise, just leave it be.

 

[The Clamp]

There was nothing super-villain whatsoever about this film IMO, thats exactly what made it so powerful, and different. It couldn't be further removed from a Marvel or DC Comics jobbie. No super-powers, no strength, no learning of skills, or evolution into some all-powerful being with flashy kung-fu killing moves. Just a pathetic, downtrodden, disturbed and damaged individual who eventually turns completely (and convincingly) psychotic. I don't think I've ever seen a film quite like it, certainly not one with this level of performance from the central character.

I urge you to revisit Taxi Driver and The King of Comedy then. They are “quite like it”.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

Just been to see it, pretty good

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

 

[Palacefinder General]

Just been to see it, pretty good

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

Damned with faint praise.

 

[Easy 10]

I urge you to revisit Taxi Driver and The King of Comedy then. They are “quite like it”.

I've not seen King of Comedy yet, and not seen Taxi Driver for about 20 years. So yup, I'll revisit.

If Joker leans on those films though, I don't think it makes it a "bad thing". Its a brilliantly rendered film in its own right IMO. I've rarely felt moved to comment on a film as much as this one and yes, defend it. Its bordering on entering my all-time top 5, and that truly takes some doing because removing a film from that list can leave me chewing my fist for days.

 

[Wozza]

https://youtu.be/tVsZqav5d74

I think my view is very similar to this, but this puts it more eloquently than I could.

Filmed vertically? This guy is a joker.

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

And to think all this stuff started from a quite ridiculous although very popular TV programme.
When the fabulous Cesar Romero got hit he had a Ka pow or a thwunk emerge from his chin.
The character of The Joker has certainly gone up a few notches.

 

[Easy 10]

And to think all this stuff started from a quite ridiculous although very popular TV programme.
When the fabulous Cesar Romero got hit he had a Ka pow or a thwunk emerge from his chin.
The character of The Joker has certainly gone up a few notches.

I'm a massive fan of that ridiculous 60s Adam West Batman. I can still vividly remember the bitter early Saturday evening battles in our living room (this being in the days pre-VCR) when my sister (8 years older) and my parents all wanted to watch Happy Days. But me being a stroppy asthmatic little bellend being desperate to watch Batman on the other channel, as they clashed.

I'd get my way most of the time though, because I was (and am) an utter twunt.

 

[Acker79]

And to think all this stuff started from a quite ridiculous although very popular TV programme.
When the fabulous Cesar Romero got hit he had a Ka pow or a thwunk emerge from his chin.
The character of The Joker has certainly gone up a few notches.

It started long before that. First appeared in comics in 1940. That tv programme didn't come along until the mid 60s.

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

I'm a massive fan of that ridiculous 60s Adam West Batman. I can still vividly remember the bitter early Saturday evening battles in our living room (this being in the days pre-VCR) when my sister (8 years older) and my parents all wanted to watch Happy Days. But me being a stroppy asthmatic little bellend being desperate to watch Batman on the other channel, as they clashed.

I'd get my way most of the time though, because I was (and am) an utter twunt.

For me that would have been an impossible choice, I really liked Batman but Happy Days was just brilliant.
Ralph Malph was a total comedy legend.

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

It started long before that. First appeared in comics in 1940. That tv programme didn't come along until the mid 60s.

I did not know that, I was born in 1962 so only knew of the TV programme.
My comics of choice were Beano, Dandy and Whizzer & Chips. Ok

 

[Easy 10]

For me that would have been an impossible choice, I really liked Batman but Happy Days was just brilliant.
Ralph Malph was a total comedy legend.

In later life I can appreciate the lovely warm humour in Happy Days. But as a selfish 7-8 year old, all I wanted back then was BATMAN. And if I didn't get to see it, I would RUIN their Happy Days viewing with an almighty strop, and would be pretty much unbearable for the rest of the evening. Play Your Cards Right and The Two Ronnies would be interrupted by an annoying whiney little runt until it was bedtime, and even then they knew I'd still fvck that up for them, so more often than not I got my Adam West fix.

What a little tosser I was. Mind you, it sometimes meant I could stay up for Hammer House of Horror.

 

[marlowe]

It started long before that. First appeared in comics in 1940. That tv programme didn't come along until the mid 60s.

And to think all this stuff started from a quite ridiculous although very popular TV programme.
When the fabulous Cesar Romero got 3 he had a Ka pow or a thwunk emerge from his chin.
The character of The Joker has certainly gone up a few notches.

Sorry to be a pedant but you're both wrong. Batman first appeared in "DC Comics" in March 1939. Robin made his debut in DC Comics a year later in April 1940.

However Batman first appeared in his own dedicated comic, "Batman" in April 1940, in issue #1 of which Joker also made his debut.

As for Cezar Romero's Joker character portrayal in the 1960s, as indeed the character portrayals in the whole TV series, it may have been a result of a backlash against comic books created in the 1950s after a book published in 1954 by Dr. Frederick Wertham called "Seduction of the Innocent: The Influence of Comic Books On Today's Youth".

In his book, Wertham reprinted gruesome, violent and sexually thematic images from popular comics. He argued that comics encouraged juvenile delinquency, anti-social and also homoerotic behavior in American youth.

The resultant backlash towards the comic industry led many parents to forbid their children from reading the books. In order to stay in business and win back the trust of the general public, the major comic publishers created the Comics Code Authority and began self-regulating the content of their books and toning their contents away from the darker violent crime themes, towards more comedic subject matter. This saw the character of Joker transform from a psychopath with a sadistic sense of humour to a more zany, wacky character as that later portrayed by Cesar Romero in the 1960s TV series.

The irony of the rather camp tv series, the content of which which was probably partly influenced by the backlash created by Dr Wertham's 1954 book is that he stated with specific reference to Batman (and Robin) that "Batman stories are psychologically homosexual" and that "The Batman type of story may stimulate children to homosexual fantasies, of the nature of which they may be unconscious" and "Only someone ignorant of the fundamentals of psychiatry and of the psychopathology of sex can fail to realize a subtle atmosphere of homoeroticism which pervades the adventures of the mature 'Batman' and his young friend*Robin".

So I'm not sure how Dr Wertham would have interpreted the character portrayals in the notoriously camp tv series made 12 years later. It probably wasn't quite the desired effect of his book he had in mind.

 

[Napper]

spoiler alert





Just seen.

Pretty boring for the first bit , got much better after he starting killing people + his mum.

It was decent enough but not worth the current 8.7 on IMDB. That will fall.

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

Sorry to be a pedant but you're both wrong. Batman first appeared in "DC Comics" in March 1939. Robin made his debut in DC Comics a year later in April 1940.

However Batman first appeared in his own dedicated comic, "Batman" in April 1940, in issue #1 of which Joker also made his debut.

As for Cezar Romero's Joker character portrayal in the 1960s, as indeed the character portrayals in the whole TV series, it may have been a result of a backlash against comic books created in the 1950s after a book published in 1954 by Dr. Frederick Wertham called "Seduction of the Innocent: The Influence of Comic Books On Today's Youth".

In his book, Wertham reprinted gruesome, violent and sexually thematic images from popular comics. He argued that comics encouraged juvenile delinquency, anti-social and also homoerotic behavior in American youth.

The resultant backlash towards the comic industry led many parents to forbid their children from reading the books. In order to stay in business and win back the trust of the general public, the major comic publishers created the Comics Code Authority and began self-regulating the content of their books and toning their contents away from the darker violent crime themes, towards more comedic subject matter. This saw the character of Joker transform from a psychopath with a sadistic sense of humour to a more zany, wacky character as that later portrayed by Cesar Romero in the 1960s TV series.

The irony of the rather camp tv series, the content of which which was probably partly influenced by the backlash created by Dr Wertham's 1954 book is that he stated with specific reference to Batman (and Robin) that "Batman stories are psychologically homosexual" and that "The Batman type of story may stimulate children to homosexual fantasies, of the nature of which they may be unconscious" and "Only someone ignorant of the fundamentals of psychiatry and of the psychopathology of sex can fail to realize a subtle atmosphere of homoeroticism which pervades the adventures of the mature 'Batman' and his young friend*Robin".

So I'm not sure how Dr Wertham would have interpreted the character portrayals in the notoriously camp tv series made 12 years later. It probably wasn't quite the desired effect of his book he had in mind.

View attachment 116360

Extremely interesting.
Sometimes you really have to admire NSC.
For me (1962) Batman was a very odd but must watch TV programme, I knew nothing of its previous history.
What I will say is that the film industry has made a lot of mileage and a hell of a lot of money from Batman, I would guess more than any other 'superhero' character like Superman or Spiderman

 

[PFJ]

I'm a massive fan of that ridiculous 60s Adam West Batman. I can still vividly remember the bitter early Saturday evening battles in our living room (this being in the days pre-VCR) when my sister (8 years older) and my parents all wanted to watch Happy Days. But me being a stroppy asthmatic little bellend being desperate to watch Batman on the other channel, as they clashed.

I'd get my way most of the time though, because I was (and am) an utter twunt.

I remember watching it in the sixties. I was 5 and had my appendix out. This would have been 1966. There was a telly on the ward and we were allowed to watch the World Cup final and Batman. No real memory of the football, but remember Adam West's Batman vividly.
At home, Batman was on ITV Monday and Tuesday nights. I wasn't allowed to watch the Monday night part 1 as my Dad wanted to watch Daktari on BBC. No BBC 1 or BBC 2 in those days, just BBC. So I had to find out what happened in part 1 at school and I was allowed to watch part 2 on the Tuesday evening. I have the whole lot on Blu Ray these days as well the Adam West and Burt Ward voiced animated movies they did before Adam West died.

 

[PFJ]

Seen the Joker. Amazing movie. I left thinking this a top notch movie from the seventies that I just never got round to seeing. Thoughts immediately went to Taxi Driver, King of Comedy, One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest and pretty much any dirty graffiti ridden movie set in New York (yeah I know it's supposed to be Gotham) during that period. Loved it. Even the real life steps in the Bronx that are featured twice in the movie, took me back to the steps in the Exorcist. I really hope we don't get a sequel, as we kind of know what happens next, unless they treat it like the Gotham TV series sans Batman.

 

[Easy 10]

I remember watching it in the sixties. I was 5 and had my appendix out. This would have been 1966. There was a telly on the (Burt) ward and we were allowed to watch the World Cup final and Batman. No real memory of the football, but remember Adam West's Batman vividly.

Edited to include painfully obvious but amazingly omitted gag.