Join a Union.

[Pogue Mahone]

personally i wouldnt like it. however, its quite possible for a plane to fly between major airports without any pilot intervention, they are there to make the public feel comfortable. trouble is, the pilots dont always work as expected... more fatalities from pilot error than computer error im afraid.

FFS. Take off and landing are NEVER computer operated. For good reason, too.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

The problem being Unions are political. If they were real unions then they wouldn't be affiliated to any political party. Then they might actually be seen to represent their members.

The Trade Unions founded the Labour Party. It would be odd if they didn't affiliate to it.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

FFS. Take off and landing are NEVER computer operated. For good reason, too.

Errr ... many a fight uses Autoland - especially in fog. I used to work for the CAA SRG if it helps back that statement up.

 

[drew]

The problem being Unions are political. If they were real unions then they wouldn't be affiliated to any political party. Then they might actually be seen to represent their members.

You are aware of the the history of the labour party?

Unions should be there to represent their members not a political party.

Which union represents a political party. You have got it the wrong way round. What is wrong with a union supporting a party that will represent it's views an/or ideals in government. No different to any other business or individual that may support the Tories because they represent their ideals. You are also aware, I hope, that the individual members of the union decide whether to pay the political levy. You can opt out.

Nope, I haven't - never worked in a business that has been unionised.

So, your company don't provide any staff benefits that, historically, have been fought for by unions at other companies or industries to the extent that it has become the accepted norm. Sick pay for example.

http://www.epi.org/publication/briefingpapers_bp143/

this is part incorrect and misleading. union ballots are determined only on a majority of those voting, abstentions not counted. so a union vote to strike can be on single digit support of the membership, if less than 20% vote. the comparison to national elections is rather disingenuous because there is more than two options and you vote for seats. it should be noted that 2005 Labour won with 35.2% on 61% turnout, returning 355 seats for 1.8m fewer votes than Tories in 2015, and Labour even had 600k fewer votes in 2001 than Tories in the last election. in fact more people voted Tory in 2010 than voted Labour in the 2005, with substantially different results. point being this comparison being made as anti-Tory has benefited Labour more in the past elections.

it might very well be a good idea to have national elections require a minimum turnout in each seat for the result to stand. likewise, union ballots should be required to get a minimum turnout for the result to stand.

The principle though is that the Tories claim to have a mandate to govern the country when they weren't elected by a majority of the electorate yet argue that the union ballot needs to have a minimum percentage to take action. It doesn't matter what percentage they impose it contravenes the sense of democracy. In a union ballot, if people chose not to vote then effectively they are saying they will go along with the result, after all, it is made easy because it is all done by postal ballots

Both of which can be driven / flown entirely by computers.

Out of interest, has a computer ever ditched a passenger jet successfully on water, maybe the river Hudson for example?

Do you remember the 70s?

Do you remember working conditions in the 19th Century!

Of course. The Euro Fighter can't phsyically stay in the air without computers - so the idea that commercial airlines can't use the technology already available ( as in a plane can already be taken off, flown and landed purely by computer ) is utterly wrong. I'd trust a computer that has no emotion over a human any day.

Do the computers decide when to engage the enemy?

Sounds like you'd be happy if the US military handed over power to WOPR

 

[beorhthelm]

FFS. Take off and landing are NEVER computer operated. For good reason, too.

what happens and what is possible are two seperate considerations.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Errr ... many a fight uses Autoland - especially in fog. I used to work for the CAA SRG if it helps back that statement up.

With no pilot in case they need to respond to unexpected circumstances?

Whatever...if you are happy for people to be replaced by machines and have basic rights stripped away as a consequence then it is unlikely that we will agree on much.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

what happens and what is possible are two seperate considerations.

Well yes. And without the possibility of human response, things could go a bit tits up, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

You said the following ( note the word NEVER ) ....

FFS. Take off and landing are NEVER computer operated. For good reason, too.

I was just pointing out you were wrong .... as union members often are.

With no pilot in case they need to respond to unexpected circumstances?

Whatever...if you are happy for people to be replaced by machines and have basic rights stripped away as a consequence then it is unlikely that we will agree on much.

I have no problem with 'basic rights', I'm just pointig out that businesses, if they wish, have the technology to work around union disputes. So workers can strike all they like, all it will achieve is pissing off their customers and bringing forward the date their job is replaced by a computer.

 

[drew]

You said the following ( note the word NEVER ) ....



I was just pointing out you were wrong .... as union members often are.



I have no problem with 'basic rights', I'm just pointig out that businesses, if they wish, have the technology to work around union disputes. So workers can strike all they like, all it will achieve is pissing off their customers and bringing forward the date their job is replaced by a computer.

Seems your company will be having trouble working around the rail strike!

 

[Freddie Goodwin.]

In the Civil Service people naturally moan about the lack of pay rise, the degradation of conditions and pensions and the massive job cuts.

So, the call goes out "What are the Union doing about this?" Well, the union asks members to vote with a variety of options. Hardly anyone votes but those that do will often vote to strike. So those that didn't vote to strike give lukewarm support or even go in so the strike only hurts the workers themselves. So everyone blames the union and just what are they gonna do about it, eh?

Good luck to any union reps out there.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

As for the rail strike ... 93 per cent of votes were to reject Network Rail's offer ( on a turn-out of 56 per cent). Or, to put it another way ... 52 per cent of the entire RMT membership eligible to vote have backed the strike.

 

[Eeyore]

It was only when the workers joined a Union at a former workplace of mine that a proper code of practise was introduced. Warnings were issued without formal notice, even witnesses weren't allowed to speak at hearings. Once the law was quoted things began to change.

Some employees were targeted, and if the Union hadn't been on hand they would have been long gone.

I'm not a Union man, but they are necessary, and will become even more so now.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

I am a teacher. Of course I am in a union. It would be madness not to be, in my profession.

Why do teachers have to start everything with 'I am a teacher'? They do it on phone-ins on the radio, in casual conversation in the pub, at meetings with me at work.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Why do teachers have to start everything with 'I am a teacher'? They do it on phone-ins on the radio, in casual conversation in the pub, at meetings with me at work.

God...

I don't. I did on this occasion because if you do my job it is absolutely essential to be in a union. The relevance was there.

No need to turn this into ANOTHER teacher bashing thread.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

Part of my job involves chairing disciplinary hearings and I see how important it is for the employee concerned to have proper union representation. You may think that it could never happen to me but if it does your chances of presenting your case fully and effectively are greatly increased. I would always advise people to join one if it is possible.

 

[Peteinblack]

Do you remember the 70s?

Ah, that old chestnut always resorted to by anti-trade union Tories whenever workers' (lack of) rights are being discussed!

I do remember the 70s - they were 40 years ago.

So how is that relevant to today's era of low wages, zero hours contracts, chronic job insecurity, increasing stress and bullying (by employers) in the work-place to hit targets or sell more, and a pay ratio of 120:1 between the CEOs of Britain's top 100 companies and those workers on the lowest wages - 5 million of the latter have to rely upon top-up welfare benefits because their pay is too low to live on?

All the dice today are loaded in favour of managers, corporations and big business, and for millions of ordinary people, there is little, if any, scope for actually enjoying their jobs, or feeling that they actually have any control over their work; instead, for so many workers,. their jobs are something to be endured or suffered, a source of drudgery, with one eye constantly on the clock waiting for their lunch-break or going home time - along with the constant fear of being made redundant and so not having a job at all (and then told that they are lazy scroungers by politicians)?

 

[Peteinblack]

Both of which can be driven / flown entirely by computers.

And when you've replaced workers with computers and other forms of technology, who will go out and buy the good and services which companies need to sell in order make the profits necessary for their survival?

Are the aisles of Tescos and Sainsburys going to be full of computers and robots on Saturday mornings, filling their trolleys with food and clothes?!
Will these computers and robots be buying season tickets for the Amex each season?!

 

[yxee]

And when you've replaced workers with computers and other forms of technology, who will go out and buy the good and services which companies need to sell in order make the profits necessary for their survival?

Are the aisles of Tescos and Sainsburys going to be full of computers and robots on Saturday mornings, filling their trolleys with food and clothes?!
Will these computers and robots be buying season tickets for the Amex each season?!

What a backwards opinion. Why don't we go back to the Victorian glory days when youth unemployment was unheard of? Damn these pesky inventions.

 

[Fitzcarraldo]

The list of how much it costs to bring a case to tribunal is here The cost of a case is so prohibitive. Everything about it. The tribunal fees, employment solicitors charging extortionate amounts and no guarantee that you would win. All of those costs coupled with the fear that you would be unofficially blacklisted as an individual within an industry if you starting bringing tribunals against an employer. Oh, and don't forget the stress of it all.

Think I'll join a Union and have them fight my corner, thanks.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Like any other organisation in life, there are good unions and bad unions. The biggest problem is apathy by the workers. When it comes to voting for the leaders, how many bother to read the profiles of the members standing for election? This is why the activists tend to get voted in, because those who are most active will take the time to send in their postal votes.