[Misc] John Cleese Blacklists Himself From Cambridge University Event

[Hampster Gull]

Coming to this late, what do i need to angry about?

 

[Bakero]

Coming to this late, what do i need to angry about?

Myriad options:

1. The use of racial slurs on a university campus.
2. Snowflake students getting upset by rail slurs.
3. No platforming.
4. U-turning on no platforming.
5. The colonialism of Cecil Rhodes.
6. The misunderstanding of Cecil Rhodes.
7. The gammonisation of John Cleese.

 

[birthofanorange]

Is this the right thread for an argument?

 

[Bodian]

Is this the right thread for an argument?

Yes, but don't open the wrong one - that's the thread for abuse.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Myriad options:

1. The use of racial slurs on a university campus.
2. Snowflake students getting upset by rail slurs.
3. No platforming.
4. U-turning on no platforming.
5. The colonialism of Cecil Rhodes.
6. The misunderstanding of Cecil Rhodes.
7. The gammonisation of John Cleese.

Thank you. I’ll pick option 3 today.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Myriad options:

1. The use of racial slurs on a university campus.
2. Snowflake students getting upset by rail slurs.
3. No platforming.
4. U-turning on no platforming.
5. The colonialism of Cecil Rhodes.
6. The misunderstanding of Cecil Rhodes.
7. The gammonisation of John Cleese.

We visited his grave in Rhodesia( at the time) Beautify place

 

[Tony Towner's Fridge]

Well done JC. No one will ever convince me that The North Minehead By Election isn't one of the great comedy sketches. It beggars belief that these so called cream of intelligence students can be so myopic and non democratic. Sure we should be ridiculing Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and Patrick Viera......stop free speech and it's a slippery slide down to autocracy and the death of democratic freedoms.

Soon Baby!


TNBA

TTF

 

[sydney]

The 1904 Cape Colony census (quoted on Wikipedia) reports the population was 59% "black" and 16% "coloured", so regardless of any arguments about who "originally" lived in the area, by the time Rhodes was Prime Minister he was presiding over a country where the majority were black Africans.

I'm sure he had a very clear vision for lining his own pockets with the proceeds of the diamond monopoly he helped build, and for taking away peoples' civil rights. That's not a vision I or the majority of people who don't have a spanner lodged in their brain share. I'd say he should be dug out of his tomb in Zimbabwe and tossed in the sea but he's so rancid I'd be worried that the ocean would vomit him back.

i'll see your spanner and raise you a doughnut , The British and Dutch/Afrikaans were in constant conflict on allowing the African workforce their liberties , from what i have read Africans travelled south from as far away as The Congo , Nyassaland which is now Zambia and Zaire and Mozambique to work for the diamond producers and railway builders , they left countries like Congo and Mozambique to get away from the tyrannical Belgian and Portuguese colonialists..............you can slag Rhodes off all you like , he was probably out of his mind most of the time on a mixture of malaria and white mischief and in his latter days syphillus but the parts of the world where he did his business are some of the most beautiful places on the planet and are still to this day , could i have your opinion on the decision by British and American oil companies drill for oil and gas on and around the Cobra Bassa....?? An area of mind-blowing natural beauty and home to unique flora and fauna comparable to what used to reside in Madagascar , so despite all this climate change malarkey , net zero blah blah blah we still have world leading governments allowing oil and gas to be pulled from the earth .......rank hypocrisy.

Rhodes arrived in Africa 1n 1870 as a 17 year old , he died in 1902 so i'm not getting the relevance of the cape census of 1904 at all sorry.
The British govt. made Rhodesia one of its prime relocation spots for returned officers after the great war and by 1970 these men and their offspring had turned the country into a global power with a currency that was stronger than the pound , fatal fo the Smith government , cut loose by Callgahan those people were left to be confronted by foreign backed , communist militia with catastrophic results for white Rhodesians and the blacks who chose to associate with them , of which there were many.The country is now in ruins and has another corrupt government in charge.

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

I really don't care that much about this, but since you've written so much and it's mostly in coherent sentences I'll do you the courtesy of replying while I watch my sausages cook.

i'll see your spanner and raise you a doughnut

Touche

The British and Dutch/Afrikaans were in constant conflict on allowing the African workforce their liberties

Some colonists were more or less racist than some others. It's simply not accurate to draw a simple comparison of good or benevolent British people and bad or racist afrikaans, because plenty of British people at that time were quite happy to deny the Africans the vote and exploit them as much as they could.

from what i have read Africans travelled souuth from as far away as The Congo , Nyassaland which is now Zambia and Zaire and Mozambique to work for the diamond producers and railway builders , they left countries like Congo and Mozambique to get away from the tyrannical Belgian and Portuguese colonialists..............

If the bar for "admirable" is set at "less evil than King Leopold II of Belgium" than there are a lot of admirable people bumming around.

you can slag Rhodes off all you like

Correct.

he was probably out of his mind most of the time on a mixture of malaria and white mischief and in his latter days syphillus but the parts of the world where he did his business are some of the most beautiful places on the planet and are still to this day

His "business" was basically stealing other people's land in the hope of exploiting the mineral wealth. And the fact that those parts of the world were and are beautiful is irrelevant, he didn't go around carving landscapes into the unformed ether.

could i have your opinion on the decision by British and American oil companies drill for oil and gas on and around the Cobra Bassa....??

Again not really relevant, but I would generally describe myself as anti oil drilling on environmental grounds. Unfortunately the way of the world is that if the oil's there then somebody'll try and get it out.

An area of mind-blowing natural beauty and home to unique flora and fauna comparable to what used to reside in Madagascar , so despite all this climate change malarkey , net zero blah blah blah we still have world leading governments allowing oil and gas to be pulled from the earth .......rank hypocrisy.

OK.

Rhodes arrived in Africa 1n 1870 as a 17 year old , he died in 1902 so i'm not getting the relevance of the cape census of 1904 at all sorry.

He was Prime Minister of Cape Colony until 1896, if you want to dig out the 1894 consensus from somewhere on the Internet then good for you, but I suspect the proportion of the population made up of whites will be fairly similar.

The British govt. made Rhodesia one of its prime relocation spots for returned officers after the great war

I'm sure the locals appreciated it.

and by 1970 these men and their offspring had turned the country into a global power with a currency that was stronger than the pound , fatal fo the Smith government , cut loose by Callgahan those people were left to be confronted by foreign backed , communist militia with catastrophic results for white Rhodesians and the blacks who chose to associate with them , of which there were many.The country is now in ruins and has another corrupt government in charge.

By 1970 the white government had turned the country into an unrecognised Republic engaged in a civil war. The strength of the currency, whatever it was, will have primarily been a measure of how much they exported/imported, and the UDI was under the Wilson government in 1965, not Callaghan's. The Lancaster House agreement was reached under the Thatcher government in 1979. None of it reflects particularly well on Smith or the White Rhodesian politicians, who clearly failed to create any sort of sustainable system in their time in power.

Anyway, my sausages are cooked now, and I'm not really interested in the conversation, so feel free to disagree with any of that but I probably won't bother to reply.

 

[Acker79]

[tweet]1459518524733464578[/tweet]

 

[sydney]

I really don't care that much about this, but since you've written so much and it's mostly in coherent sentences I'll do you the courtesy of replying while I watch my sausages cook.



Touche



Some colonists were more or less racist than some others. It's simply not accurate to draw a simple comparison of good or benevolent British people and bad or racist afrikaans, because plenty of British people at that time were quite happy to deny the Africans the vote and exploit them as much as they could.



If the bar for "admirable" is set at "less evil than King Leopold II of Belgium" than there are a lot of admirable people bumming around.



Correct.



His "business" was basically stealing other people's land in the hope of exploiting the mineral wealth. And the fact that those parts of the world were and are beautiful is irrelevant, he didn't go around carving landscapes into the unformed ether.



Again not really relevant, but I would generally describe myself as anti oil drilling on environmental grounds. Unfortunately the way of the world is that if the oil's there then somebody'll try and get it out.



OK.



He was Prime Minister of Cape Colony until 1896, if you want to dig out the 1894 consensus from somewhere on the Internet then good for you, but I suspect the proportion of the population made up of whites will be fairly similar.



I'm sure the locals appreciated it.



By 1970 the white government had turned the country into an unrecognised Republic engaged in a civil war. The strength of the currency, whatever it was, will have primarily been a measure of how much they exported/imported, and the UDI was under the Wilson government in 1965, not Callaghan's. The Lancaster House agreement was reached under the Thatcher government in 1979. None of it reflects particularly well on Smith or the White Rhodesian politicians, who clearly failed to create any sort of sustainable system in their time in power.

Anyway, my sausages are cooked now, and I'm not really interested in the conversation, so feel free to disagree with any of that but I probably won't bother to reply.

i'll stand corrected on the chronology of Rhodes's Prime Ministership , with respect to Smith , the country was booming , huge productive farms , plenty of food , schools and hospitals for all regardless of colour and Smith had the support of his people. You could interpret it as UDI or you could look at as Zim being cut loose to defend itself against communist backed rebels , the fact that the Labour govt didn't offer assistance to the mostly English population is still a sore point.

 

[sydney]

I really don't care that much about this, but since you've written so much and it's mostly in coherent sentences I'll do you the courtesy of replying while I watch my sausages cook.



Touche



Some colonists were more or less racist than some others. It's simply not accurate to draw a simple comparison of good or benevolent British people and bad or racist afrikaans, because plenty of British people at that time were quite happy to deny the Africans the vote and exploit them as much as they could.



If the bar for "admirable" is set at "less evil than King Leopold II of Belgium" than there are a lot of admirable people bumming around.



Correct.



His "business" was basically stealing other people's land in the hope of exploiting the mineral wealth. And the fact that those parts of the world were and are beautiful is irrelevant, he didn't go around carving landscapes into the unformed ether.



Again not really relevant, but I would generally describe myself as anti oil drilling on environmental grounds. Unfortunately the way of the world is that if the oil's there then somebody'll try and get it out.



OK.



He was Prime Minister of Cape Colony until 1896, if you want to dig out the 1894 consensus from somewhere on the Internet then good for you, but I suspect the proportion of the population made up of whites will be fairly similar.



I'm sure the locals appreciated it.



By 1970 the white government had turned the country into an unrecognised Republic engaged in a civil war. The strength of the currency, whatever it was, will have primarily been a measure of how much they exported/imported, and the UDI was under the Wilson government in 1965, not Callaghan's. The Lancaster House agreement was reached under the Thatcher government in 1979. None of it reflects particularly well on Smith or the White Rhodesian politicians, who clearly failed to create any sort of sustainable system in their time in power.

Anyway, my sausages are cooked now, and I'm not really interested in the conversation, so feel free to disagree with any of that but I probably won't bother to reply.

nah sorry just read that lot again..... jesus christ..you are cooked ... good luck from here on in old boy...

 

[The Clamp]

nah sorry just read that lot again..... jesus christ..you are cooked ... good luck from here on in old boy...

No doubt you were there at the time, rubbing shoulders with Cecil on one of your unparalleled globe-trotting adventures

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Is this the right thread for an argument?

Do you want a five minute argument or a full half hour?

 

[birthofanorange]

Do you want a five minute argument or a full half hour?

If it's on here, it could be months.....years, possibly.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I really don't care that much about this, but since you've written so much and it's mostly in coherent sentences I'll do you the courtesy of replying while I watch my sausages cook.



Touche



Some colonists were more or less racist than some others. It's simply not accurate to draw a simple comparison of good or benevolent British people and bad or racist afrikaans, because plenty of British people at that time were quite happy to deny the Africans the vote and exploit them as much as they could.



If the bar for "admirable" is set at "less evil than King Leopold II of Belgium" than there are a lot of admirable people bumming around.



Correct.



His "business" was basically stealing other people's land in the hope of exploiting the mineral wealth. And the fact that those parts of the world were and are beautiful is irrelevant, he didn't go around carving landscapes into the unformed ether.



Again not really relevant, but I would generally describe myself as anti oil drilling on environmental grounds. Unfortunately the way of the world is that if the oil's there then somebody'll try and get it out.



OK.



He was Prime Minister of Cape Colony until 1896, if you want to dig out the 1894 consensus from somewhere on the Internet then good for you, but I suspect the proportion of the population made up of whites will be fairly similar.



I'm sure the locals appreciated it.



By 1970 the white government had turned the country into an unrecognised Republic engaged in a civil war. The strength of the currency, whatever it was, will have primarily been a measure of how much they exported/imported, and the UDI was under the Wilson government in 1965, not Callaghan's. The Lancaster House agreement was reached under the Thatcher government in 1979. None of it reflects particularly well on Smith or the White Rhodesian politicians, who clearly failed to create any sort of sustainable system in their time in power.

Anyway, my sausages are cooked now, and I'm not really interested in the conversation, so feel free to disagree with any of that but I probably won't bother to reply.

I really enjoyed reading that. The bit about carving the south african landscape out of the ether made me laugh.

As for actual buildings and their provenance...I wonder if the Egyptians still hanker for the pharoas who carved the pyramids out of the Nile valley? Do they worship them as men of vision?

There is an irony that the best and most lasting buildings and monuments from the past were largely built by slaves (a bit like the stadia for the next world cup!). I suspect most people are happy to turn a blind eye to how all this stuff was built, but that's no reason to revere the builders. I'm happy we have got these buildings to marvel at (apologies for wandering off topic a bit) but I still think that Rhodes should be reviled not lauded. Times change...

You simply couldn't build stuff like the Lewes Road viaduct, let alone the Napoleonic era Hythe to Rye canal, where I went this afternoon, with the labour costs and health and safety regulations we have today. So be it. With the current resources available, should we build Palaces for Kings and royal-sanctioned Pirates, or decent homes for the plebs? It's got to be the latter. Before [MENTION=17322]Lenny Rider[/MENTION] comes along to tell me off, I am not advocating dismantling the palaces - they are tremendous, and I do not subscripe to culture wiping, a la the Taliban and their defacing of everything not Islamic Pashtunwali.

Yet....times change. I am very happy to have the Churcill statue in Parliament square, and I have always nodded at it when I cycle past it on the way to work. In fifty years time, however, maybe Churchill will be widely regarded less favourably (not simply reviled by eco warriors and the like) and his foibles given more weight and subjected to more opprobrium. We can't rewrite history but our attitudes to it are bound to evolve.. We're humans and it's what we do

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

If it's on here, it could be months.....years, possibly.

I was a bit surprised that desite being out most of the day I was the first to spot the little joke......perhaps Cleese does no longer have the cultural traction he once had.

I remember when League of Gentlemen first came on the box. My students hadn't yet seen it. Ten years later none of my students had heard of it. Been and gone. When I said to one of them 'Youre my wife now' I got the most peculiar look

 

[rogersix]

nah sorry just read that lot again..... jesus christ..you are cooked ... good luck from here on in old boy...

you've had your arse handed to you there, boy

 

[sydney]

No doubt you were there at the time, rubbing shoulders with Cecil on one of your unparalleled globe-trotting adventures

don't be silly .....this argument ignores the tribal issues and slave taking amongst and between African tribes and the consequent sale to white settlers and to eastern traders who sailed them around the world , the narrative is that it was all down to the dastardly British when in fact it wasn't.

 

[The Clamp]

don't be silly .....this argument ignores the tribal issues and slave taking amongst and between African tribes and the consequent sale to white settlers and to eastern traders who sailed them around the world , the narrative is that it was all down to the dastardly British when in fact it wasn't.

Well, facts are always more nuanced than people think. But I don't have much more to add to what Sid said when he schooled you a few posts back. I especially enjoyed it as you have tried to lecture me on Zimbabwe a few times and it's obvious your knowledge of the subject is very biased and severely limited.

Your mistake, as per, was to assume you are the only one who knows about these places or has experience of them. Hence your rather startled reaction to being put straight.

It's a good lesson in humility.

You are a travelled man and although heavily biased, are clearly educated but it serves us well to be reminded that there is always someone a little more travelled and a little more knowledgeable than us out there. Sid did you a favour back there. You'd do well to remember that.