[Politics] Jeremy Corbyn and a new political party.

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

Because he’s not a communist and not Russian?

Neither was Stalin, but there you go.

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

The people who believe that anti Zionism is the same as anti Semitism , are the same people who believe Communism is the same as Socialism.

Please can you name the only two political parties to be investigated by the Equality and Human Rights Commission?

 

[1066familyman]

So much bile. How dare a politician attempt to oppose privatisation of public services, address the massive iniquities in society, tax the rich, build social housing, make an effort to reverse climate change, give people greater rights in the workplace, support refugees, supply wi-fi to those who need it, take the railway back into public hands, oppose the unlimited power of property developers. Let's hope his ideas die a death and we can snuggle between Boris and Starmer's visions of a continuation of greed and flag waving tripe.

Had Corbyn had the backbone to stick to his position on Europe that he held whilst on the back benches, then I firmly believe that the so called 'red wall' would not have defected and instead we'd have seen a Socialist Labour party elected to Government.

Corby has a lot to answer for in handing this lot the election victory on a plate. I still can't understand why he simply didn't stand up and ask voters to look at his voting record on Europe.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Had Corbyn had the backbone to stick to his position on Europe that he held whilst on the back benches, then I firmly believe that the so called 'red wall' would not have defected and instead we'd have seen a Socialist Labour party elected to Government.

Corby has a lot to answer for in handing this lot the election victory on a plate. I still can't understand why he simply didn't stand up and ask voters to look at his voting record on Europe.

They would have lost the Southern middle class Remainers to the Liberals though. He preferred to take the Northern working class Leavers for granted.

 

[clapham_gull]

No, I want to see what actual quoted examples of JC being racist are.

I don't believe Johnson is "racist" (and neither is Corbyn) but both are guilty of saying and doing some particularly stupid things that are open to criticism and accusations that they are.

Firstly that mural in East London, Corbyn was forced to apologise.

"I sincerely regret that I did not look more closely at the image I was commenting on, the contents of which are deeply disturbing and anti-Semitic.

Another was him writing a forward for an the reissue of "Imperialism: A Study" by John Atkinson Hobson a well known anti-Semite.

An important book historically and was written at a time when there were a number of anti-Semites of course, but Corbyn should have left well alone.

Corbyn is a very well respected campaigning MP who has stuck to his guns on a number of issues and is clearly well loved by his constituents.

However - he is far too publicly ideological and opinionated to either lead a major opposition party (or be Prime Minister), because he loses all the flexibility a leader needs at certain times.

The best example was his communication during the referendum campaign.

How could anyone believe the man wanted to stay in the EU, when he spent his entire career campaigning against it ? .. and yes could argue the same about Johnson.

He also refuses to state whether he has been vaccinated for "privacy reasons". I respect that in anybody but not a political leader at the current time. His reason ? Ideological.

Lastly (as a leader) he should really call out his brother's public behaviour.

 

[BenGarfield]

Corbyn "is far too publicly ideological and opinionated to either lead a major opposition party (or be Prime Minister), because he loses all the flexibility a leader needs at certain times"

What, a bit like "this lady is not for turning" Magaret Thatcher?.

 

[borat]

Its important to note that 4 of the 6 figures in the mural are not Jewish and the painter intended it as comment on capitalism.

The reaction to AS is often decided by the person in question. Perfect example is JK Rowling and the hooked nosed, banker Goblins (with a star on the bank floor) featured in Harry Potter. Even though this would appear blatantly anti-semitic, the same people who tried to smear Corbyn at every last turn have given her a complete pass over it. ​It just shows how the accusations are politically motivated - either because he fights for Palestinian rights or because he believes in the nationalisation of certain services and this threatens some in big business.

If anyone is in any doubt about Corbyns past with the Jewish community - Have a look at this thread of Corbyns work since the 70's, detailing his campaigning for and protection of Jewish issues.

https://twitter.com/JohnFielder1/status/1417140908504625158?s=20

For what its worth I don't think he should start a new party - 1) It wont win of course 2) For his own sanity. All the smears and crap thrown against would just be rehashed endlessly.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Corbyn "is far too publicly ideological and opinionated to either lead a major opposition party (or be Prime Minister), because he loses all the flexibility a leader needs at certain times"

What, a bit like "this lady is not for turning" Magaret Thatcher?.

You do realise it's not 1979 any more right?

Although I think Jezza's party would be about as successful as Michael Foot, so maybe you've just referenced the wrong 40-years-ago icon.

 

[clapham_gull]

Corbyn "is far too publicly ideological and opinionated to either lead a major opposition party (or be Prime Minister), because he loses all the flexibility a leader needs at certain times"

What, a bit like "this lady is not for turning" Magaret Thatcher?.

But she did turn quite a lot and eventually it was the end of her. Whatever my political views are (which are irrelevant) it's going to very difficult to persuade the vast majority of people in this country to elect somebody whose political views (and ways of expressing them) were formed in the 1970s.

The lies and innuendo (and there was lot about Corbyn) were clearly not the main reason swathes of traditional Labour voters turned away.

 

[clapham_gull]

Its important to note that 4 of the 6 figures in the mural are not Jewish and the painter intended it as comment on capitalism.

Why did Corbyn apologise then ?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Strange that since his election as an MP in 1983, he had not a single accusation of anti semitism until 2015 when he became Labour leader.
It’s almost as if it was the most toxic accusation that his enemies within, and without the Labour Party could find to smear him. The famous mural that he liked on Facebook was unveiled in 2012.


It was a stitch up.

It was.

But the needle and thread were supplied by Corbyn himself.

And of course nobody was interested in his views, what he liked on Facebook or anything else before he became leader - because he was a joke of a nonentity back-bencher, mumbling into his beard. A whimsical curio. Mostly harmless.

I think he was as surprised as the rest of us when he became leader. Naturally it wouldn't have taken too long to find dirt on him. He had a chance to make a clean break from all that (and I was prepared to back him initially - until his first embarrassing interview when he pretended he'd lost his phone signal) but instead he blundered into condemning 'all forms of prejudice' - doing an equivalent impersonation of those on the right who cannot bring themselves to criticise by name the racism experienced by black people. 'Yes I condemn antisemitism'. There, it is that easy. When he decided at the eleventh hour to be explicit about antisemitism he managed to cock up the apology, and Starmer had to give him an exasperated metaphorical kick up the arse with a suspension. And he now wants to form a new party? What a plonker.

And it is only a 'smear' if it's false

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Its important to note that 4 of the 6 figures in the mural are not Jewish and the painter intended it as comment on capitalism.

The reaction to AS is often decided by the person in question. Perfect example is JK Rowling and the hooked nosed, banker Goblins (with a star on the bank floor) featured in Harry Potter. Even though this would appear blatantly anti-semitic, the same people who tried to smear Corbyn at every last turn have given her a complete pass over it. ​It just shows how the accusations are politically motivated - either because he fights for Palestinian rights or because he believes in the nationalisation of certain services and this threatens some in big business.

If anyone is in any doubt about Corbyns past with the Jewish community - Have a look at this thread of Corbyns work since the 70's, detailing his campaigning for and protection of Jewish issues.

https://twitter.com/JohnFielder1/status/1417140908504625158?s=20

For what its worth I don't think he should start a new party - 1) It wont win of course 2) For his own sanity. All the smears and crap thrown against would just be rehashed endlessly.

Are you suggestion that 'the jews' are making it all up? Corbyn may giveth with one hand but he taketh with the other:

https://www.thejlc.org/letter_to_jeremy_corbyn

And as everyone should know, when someone is offensive and someone takes offense, it is not for the offender to do a Ron Atkinson and claim they were just mucking about

Anyway.....arguing the toss about whether Corbyn was or was not antisemitic does not detract from the fact he was a crap leader, indecisive and capricious, and quite unsuited to the job.

And it also does not detract from the fact that he has gone, now. He has no traction in the labour party and is an irrelevance. The new party won't even get close to not being elected because it is doubtful that he has a clue how to set a party up. He's more likey to soon be co-hosting with Farrage and Oliver on GB news than leading his new model army into electoral battle.

 

[Comrade Sam]

Some of us have been aware of Corbyn for many years. Anyone who has been on strike, been involved in anti- racism, anti-fascism, defending refugees or immigrants, opposed a war, supported environmental issues, opposed privatisation and so much more, Corbyn was there. He also has a well documented history of opposing anti-Semitism, both locally, nationally, internationally and in parliament. But those with a bee in their bonnet will never forgive him for trying. There's not a single MP in parliament, including Lucas that has such a phenomenal record fighting for the oppressed, but a Facebook like at a crappy anti-Semitic mural should sum his actions up for ever.

 

[Weststander]

Are you suggestion that 'the jews' are making it all up? Corbyn may giveth with one hand but he taketh with the other:

https://www.thejlc.org/letter_to_jeremy_corbyn

And as everyone should know, when someone is offensive and someone takes offense, it is not for the offender to do a Ron Atkinson and claim they were just mucking about

Anyway.....arguing the toss about whether Corbyn was or was not antisemitic does not detract from the fact he was a crap leader, indecisive and capricious, and quite unsuited to the job.

And it also does not detract from the fact that he has gone, now. He has no traction in the labour party and is an irrelevance. The new party won't even get close to not being elected because it is doubtful that he has a clue how to set a party up. He's more likey to soon be co-hosting with Farrage and Oliver on GB news than leading his new model army into electoral battle.

JO’B straight talking about Corbynistas …. they handed the Tories a huge victory (and ultimately got Brexit done). No punches pulled.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I don't believe Johnson is "racist" (and neither is Corbyn) but both are guilty of saying and doing some particularly stupid things that are open to criticism and accusations that they are.

Firstly that mural in East London, Corbyn was forced to apologise.



Another was him writing a forward for an the reissue of "Imperialism: A Study" by John Atkinson Hobson a well known anti-Semite.

An important book historically and was written at a time when there were a number of anti-Semites of course, but Corbyn should have left well alone.

Corbyn is a very well respected campaigning MP who has stuck to his guns on a number of issues and is clearly well loved by his constituents.

However - he is far too publicly ideological and opinionated to either lead a major opposition party (or be Prime Minister), because he loses all the flexibility a leader needs at certain times.

The best example was his communication during the referendum campaign.

How could anyone believe the man wanted to stay in the EU, when he spent his entire career campaigning against it ? .. and yes could argue the same about Johnson.

He also refuses to state whether he has been vaccinated for "privacy reasons". I respect that in anybody but not a political leader at the current time. His reason ? Ideological.

Lastly (as a leader) he should really call out his brother's public behaviour.

Very good post.

I'm afraid that my posts on this thread have been suffused with anger. No doubt Corbyn is kindly and well-meaning. I really wanted to like him when he became leader.....

But his total lack of introspection has landed us with five years of the worst, most venal and most useless of prime ministers in my lifetime. He had some incendiary baggage when he became leader, but he appears to have taken no advice about how to make it safe. Johnson has made sure his 'baggage' is all disarmed. Corbyn could have defended his previous odd interventions, like meeting up with the IRA after they bombed Brighton, but he didn't bother, and seems oblivious that many people found this behaviour to be ludicrously inappropriate for a nonentity back bencher (as he was at the time). Stubborn. Arrogant. He has handed to right wing zealots a stick with which to beat the labour party for years to come. I am angry about that.

I think that Foot and Kinnock were far more harshly bullied by the media than Corbyn and with far less reason.

So I am not prepared to stick up for Corbyn. Not at all. He has damaged the country by gifting us Johnson.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Very good post.

I'm afraid that my posts on this hread have been suffused with anger. No doubt Corbyn is kindly and well-meaning. I really wanted to like him when he became leader.....

But his total lack of introspection has landed us with five years of the worst, most venal and most useless of prime ministers in my lifetime. He had some incendiary baggage when he became leader, but he appears to have taken no advice about how to make it safe. Johnson has made sure his 'baggage' is all disarmed. Corbyn could have defended his previous odd interventions, like meeting up with he IRA after they bombed Brighton, but he didn't bother, and seems oblivious that many people found this behaviour to be ludicrously inappropriate for a nonentity back bencher (as he was at the time). Stubborn. Arrogant. He has handed to right wing zealots a stick with which to beat the labour party for years to come. I am angry about that.

I think that Foot and Kinnock were far more harshly bullied by the media than Corbyn and with far less reason.

So I am not prepared to stick up for Corbyn. Not at all. He has damaged the country by gifting us Johnson.

Leave him Harry, he's not worth it

The only people who 'gifted' us Johnson were those who wanted and voted for Johnson

Although it is quite amusing to see a few of them bailing out after 2 years of the 5 year plan they voted for and giving me thumbs up for pointing it out.

 

[borat]

Are you suggestion that 'the jews' are making it all up? Corbyn may giveth with one hand but he taketh with the other:

https://www.thejlc.org/letter_to_jeremy_corbyn

And as everyone should know, when someone is offensive and someone takes offense, it is not for the offender to do a Ron Atkinson and claim they were just mucking about

Anyway.....arguing the toss about whether Corbyn was or was not antisemitic does not detract from the fact he was a crap leader, indecisive and capricious, and quite unsuited to the job.

And it also does not detract from the fact that he has gone, now. He has no traction in the labour party and is an irrelevance. The new party won't even get close to not being elected because it is doubtful that he has a clue how to set a party up. He's more likey to soon be co-hosting with Farrage and Oliver on GB news than leading his new model army into electoral battle.

He was clearly not anti-semitic and the smears were cynical, disgusting and a disservice to actual AS

Take just 2 mins to read the below.

https://twitter.com/JohnFielder1/status/1417140914468925441?s=20

I wonder why left wing Jews defend him and right wing Jews slate him? Jews are being expelled from the Labour Party as we speak for sin of criticising Israel.

Read this written by a Jewish Labour org. Or are they the wrong kind of Jews in your eyes? You are flirting with AS yourself.

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.or...ment-on-the-current-attacks-on-jeremy-corbyn/

Your comment on GB news makes me think your political compass has been smashed with a sledge hammer and dropped in the Marian Trench

Anyway will end contribution - it was a complete scam for political ends and Corbyn was vilified because 1) he stood up for those less fortunate including Palestinians 2) Spoke of nationalisation that threatened big business 3) Was critical of Israel - not allowed in UK and US politics - see Bernie Sanders for more evidence

 

[Weststander]

I don't believe Johnson is "racist" (and neither is Corbyn) but both are guilty of saying and doing some particularly stupid things that are open to criticism and accusations that they are.

Firstly that mural in East London, Corbyn was forced to apologise.



Another was him writing a forward for an the reissue of "Imperialism: A Study" by John Atkinson Hobson a well known anti-Semite.

An important book historically and was written at a time when there were a number of anti-Semites of course, but Corbyn should have left well alone.

Corbyn is a very well respected campaigning MP who has stuck to his guns on a number of issues and is clearly well loved by his constituents.

However - he is far too publicly ideological and opinionated to either lead a major opposition party (or be Prime Minister), because he loses all the flexibility a leader needs at certain times.

The best example was his communication during the referendum campaign.

How could anyone believe the man wanted to stay in the EU, when he spent his entire career campaigning against it ? .. and yes could argue the same about Johnson.

He also refuses to state whether he has been vaccinated for "privacy reasons". I respect that in anybody but not a political leader at the current time. His reason ? Ideological.

Lastly (as a leader) he should really call out his brother's public behaviour.

+2

Excellent, knowledgeable summary.

 

[Weststander]

He was clearly not anti-semitic and the smears were cynical, disgusting and a disservice to actual AS

Take just 2 mins to read the below.

https://twitter.com/JohnFielder1/status/1417140914468925441?s=20

I wonder why left wing Jews defend him and right wing Jews slate him? Jews are being expelled from the Labour Party as we speak for sin of criticising Israel.

Read this written by a Jewish Labour org. Or are they the wrong kind of Jews in your eyes? You are flirting with AS yourself.

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.or...ment-on-the-current-attacks-on-jeremy-corbyn/

Your comment on GB news makes me think your political compass has been smashed with a sledge hammer and dropped in the Marian Trench

Anyway will end contribution - it was a complete scam for political ends and Corbyn was vilified because 1) he stood up for those less fortunate including Palestinians 2) Spoke of nationalisation that threatened big business 3) Was critical of Israel - not allowed in UK and US politics - see Bernie Sanders for more evidence

Labour’s Margaret Hodge, Luciana Berger and Louise Ellman faced the violent/aggressive anti semitism and bravely fronted up against Corbyn’s failure to truly deal with it.

 

[BenGarfield]

He was clearly not anti-semitic and the smears were cynical, disgusting and a disservice to actual AS

Take just 2 mins to read the below.

https://twitter.com/JohnFielder1/status/1417140914468925441?s=20

I wonder why left wing Jews defend him and right wing Jews slate him? Jews are being expelled from the Labour Party as we speak for sin of criticising Israel.

Read this written by a Jewish Labour org. Or are they the wrong kind of Jews in your eyes? You are flirting with AS yourself.

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.or...ment-on-the-current-attacks-on-jeremy-corbyn/

Your comment on GB news makes me think your political compass has been smashed with a sledge hammer and dropped in the Marian Trench

Anyway will end contribution - it was a complete scam for political ends and Corbyn was vilified because 1) he stood up for those less fortunate including Palestinians 2) Spoke of nationalisation that threatened big business 3) Was critical of Israel - not allowed in UK and US politics - see Bernie Sanders for more evidence

Absolutely this: Noticeable that many in the socially conservative Charedi Orthodox Jewish community (around 67,000 about a quarter of theh Jewish population in the UK, also supported Corbyn. They are opposed to the state of Israel on religious grounds and have been attacked by senior labour figures such as Margaret Hodge who have filed a letter of complaint against her to the labour party on grounds of anti semitism.