[Albion] January window

[bhafc99]

I think the overwhelming majority of Albion fans just want him to go out on loan, get some goals and come back a better player.

I think he's had too much too soon, he hasn't dealt with Covid particularly well and he's lost his way.

I don't see why the club think Zeqiri needs a loan but Connolly doesn't. We loaned out Caicedo and Molumby but brought in Mwepu, we loaned out Karbownik and Cochrane but bought in Cuccurella so why not the same with a striker?

Couldn’t agree more.

Having the opinion that the best course for Aaron’s development, and the club’s progress, is that he should have gone out on loan ISN’T the same as ‘abusing’ him.

A season in the Championship or similar will give him a chance to grow in both confidence and ability. Sitting on the bench in the PL squad won’t.

He needs to get better - that’s not an unreasonable view - and potentially he can get better - but only by playing frequently at a level that works in terms of his current progress.

Personally I was very surprised that Zequiri went on loan but Aaron didn’t.

 

[Swansman]

I think the overwhelming majority of Albion fans just want him to go out on loan, get some goals and come back a better player.

I think he's had too much too soon, he hasn't dealt with Covid particularly well and he's lost his way.

I don't see why the club think Zeqiri needs a loan but Connolly doesn't. We loaned out Caicedo and Molumby but brought in Mwepu, we loaned out Karbownik and Cochrane but bought in Cuccurella so why not the same with a striker?

And that is a sensible, balanced opinion. The hatred shown from some isnt.

 

[dazzer6666]

I think the overwhelming majority of Albion fans just want him to go out on loan, get some goals and come back a better player.

I think he's had too much too soon, he hasn't dealt with Covid particularly well and he's lost his way.

I don't see why the club think Zeqiri needs a loan but Connolly doesn't. We loaned out Caicedo and Molumby but brought in Mwepu, we loaned out Karbownik and Cochrane but bought in Cuccurella so why not the same with a striker?

Agree with your first point, but re your last point the decision will be based on watching hours and hours of training, not just the occasional snippets of action we see so we’ll never be able to fully understand it. Club also need to make sure any loan club is suitable for the player and vice versa - maybe that was more of an issue with Aaron than the others.

 

[um bongo molongo]

I personally think Connolly might have a decent career at top level. It's usual for a striker at that age to be inconsistent and be unable to trouble PL defenders and keepers. There's every chance he'll improve and be a real threat in a couple of years, (though more likely he'll need a move to kickstart his career)

However I can't ignore that Potter chooses to put midfielders up front instead of him at the weekend and throughout this season

I also can't ignore that Welbeck has a poor injury record over a decade and isn't getting any younger. We just can't rely on him in any meaningful way.

I can't ignore that Maupay had a whole season of very poor form last time round and there's just as much a risk of this than there is of injury and suspension.

There's lots of wilful conflating of what a forward is and what a striker is on this thread and others. Trossard then, i'm not even going to count as a striker as he isn't one.

It also strikes me that we have promise coming through either via to u23's and out on loan.

I think we need a short term option. Just to tide us through the next 6 months. Maybe 18 months. Someone who knows what they are doing.

I have no doubt at all that had we better back up strikers we'd be in the hat for the Carabao cup .... maybe we'll even win something one day

You may be right about Connolly but we won’t know from a few minutes here and there. Which is why he should be on loan, he ain’t developing at the moment.

 

[chaileyjem]

No doubt the club have tabs on most young players above a certain level, but our current model doesn't seem to include loaning other clubs' players in. The only player I can think of that we've loaned in since promotion is Mooy, and that was always going to be a loan-to-buy deal for whatever reason.

Dan Ashworth on incoming loans in a recent interview in the Athletic via https://theathletic.co.uk/2884020/2...ishes-and-logic-behind-sima-and-andone-moves/

Tony Bloom, the owner and chairman, has never been keen on incoming loans. We’ve only done one since I’ve been here. That was Aaron Mooy. It was a loan with an option to buy, it was late in the window and we needed another midfield player.

We always knew he was a really good player, we really liked him, tracked him for a while. Huddersfield had been relegated, so they got him off their wage bill and Aaron was a proven Premier League player.

Loans are really good if you haven’t got a transfer fee, a good way of getting a good player. You don’t have that long-term obligation and, as you get towards the end of the window, if you’ve got a last-minute need or injury (they can come in).

Every club is different. We loaned a lot when I was at West Brom. The chairman liked them, that was part of the model, not so much at Brighton.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Arsenal have 3 young forwards all struggling to get game time ahead of the likes of Aubameyang, Lacazette, Pepe, Saka and Smith-Rowe. Those 3 players are Martinelli, Nketiah and Folarin Balogun. Surely a loan to the Albion of any of those players would a win-win situation for the player and both clubs?

 

[Live by the sea]

I would say it’s not for lack of trying . Brighton are willing to pay what they feel is a reasonable price for the right striker but the list I suspect is quite small for a player that is an improvement in what we already have . The main problem is not so much the transfer fee, I think we would pay £30-35m if the club felt the deal was needed But the main problem is that strikers significantly better than Maupay or Welbeck will want considerably more than £50k pw.

That is the main problem . I totally support all signings staying within the clubs pay structure .

 

[dwayne]

Arsenal have 3 young forwards all struggling to get game time ahead of the likes of Aubameyang, Lacazette, Pepe, Saka and Smith-Rowe. Those 3 players are Martinelli, Nketiah and Folarin Balogun. Surely a loan to the Albion of any of those players would a win-win situation for the player and both clubs?

Yup

Cannot for the life of me understand why we don't use that system.

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[Hugo Rune]

Arsenal have 3 young forwards all struggling to get game time ahead of the likes of Aubameyang, Lacazette, Pepe, Saka and Smith-Rowe. Those 3 players are Martinelli, Nketiah and Folarin Balogun. Surely a loan to the Albion of any of those players would a win-win situation for the player and both clubs?

I’m not sure Martinelli, Nketiah or Balogun offer much more than Sima, Sarmiento, Zeqiri or Connolly to be honest.

There is always a weird clamour with young strikers of they come from a big six. Generally though, they need a lot of development, Brewster is a prime example. If they are almost the finished product, they tend to stay with the club, Greenwood or Rashford are good example.

What we need is a striker between around 23-30 who can compete with Maupay and Welbeck for a starting place. But like Arsenal, we don’t want to be developing our next generation of players on the hoof, far better to get a team like Leeds, Stoke, West Brom, or Blackburn to do the heavy lifting for us and cope with the inconsistencies and mistakes that can cost you a match (see the Sarmiento error yesterday) you see with the vast majority of young players.

 

[Machiavelli]

Arsenal have 3 young forwards all struggling to get game time ahead of the likes of Aubameyang, Lacazette, Pepe, Saka and Smith-Rowe. Those 3 players are Martinelli, Nketiah and Folarin Balogun. Surely a loan to the Albion of any of those players would a win-win situation for the player and both clubs?

For you, maybe, but it seems that the club don't share that view.
At present, dealing with this issue on this thread is not unlike dealing with a many-headed hydra.
You've made the valid point that we should get another club's young striker in on loan. Others are making the valid point that Connolly should go out on loan. Others think it should be Connolly out on loan rather than Zeqiri (or perhaps Sima). Still others are making the valid point that we're short of strikers.

Despite the validity of all this, I can see the rationale behind the club's approach and don't disagree with it. They view that Maupay, Welbeck and Trossard can play the requisite role that we'll have to call a 'striker' (although false nine might have to come into that, as it does for the current PL and CL holders). They also view that Connolly is a decent enough support for these three. They also have to endure Locadia, until he's out of contract and off the wage bill.

They would have worked out with the players what's best for them this season. For Locadia, creaming in c35k a week is what he wants, because it's the last time he's going to get it, barring an upturn in his DJ fortunes. For Zeqiri and Sima, they want to go out on loan such that they can get more regular game time than we can offer them here, and develop their game. For Maupay, Trossard and Welbeck, things are more straight forward. For Connolly, he feels that he can make an impact here and in the PL, and can break into that first choice trio. You might view this as wrong, but he's had decent game time in the past two seasons. It might happen, it might not.

This is how (I see) the club has viewed their 'striking' options for this season. I also think that they don't view taking one of Arsenal's young strikers on loan would help the club in the long term, and would not view such a deal as a 'win' on their side. See the comment from DA referencing TB posted by [MENTION=24867]chaileyjem[/MENTION] for the explanation.

 

[jimhigham]

We desperately need another striker. We are not man city we can't survive without them

To be fair, we have survived with relatively thin striking options in the recent past. It’s safe to say that we can’t thrive without them. It’s what’s really needed to get us to the next level.

 

[Swansman]

Arsenal have 3 young forwards all struggling to get game time ahead of the likes of Aubameyang, Lacazette, Pepe, Saka and Smith-Rowe. Those 3 players are Martinelli, Nketiah and Folarin Balogun. Surely a loan to the Albion of any of those players would a win-win situation for the player and both clubs?

If you are going to replace an academy player who makes one goal/assist per 260 minutes in the PL with someone who makes one per 230 minutes, like Martinelli, in the PL, then what is the point of the academy?

I'm sure Arsenal would be happy to get a bit of game time for one of their youngsters so that they can develop into good or decent PL players. But I much prefer Brighton giving that game time to a Brighton youngster so that they can develop into good or decent PL players.

I dont see how borrowing someone who has performed very moderately better statistically than Connolly in a much better team would be a "win" for Brighton when it means that the Brighton academy product gets less playing time.

Appears Tony Bloom very much agrees with me on that subject so I dont see the club spending cash, time and effort to develop other clubs youngsters anytime soon.

 

[Stat Brother]

I think the overwhelming majority of Albion fans just want him to go out on loan, get some goals and come back a better player.

I think he's had too much too soon, he hasn't dealt with Covid particularly well and he's lost his way.

I don't see why the club think Zeqiri needs a loan but Connolly doesn't. We loaned out Caicedo and Molumby but brought in Mwepu, we loaned out Karbownik and Cochrane but bought in Cuccurella so why not the same with a striker?

The answer to all your questions is - money.


Just follow the money to find your answer.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

Yup

Cannot for the life of me understand why we don't use that system.

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Probably because we tried polishing one of Arsenal's turds before. That didn't end well did it

 

[Pavilionaire]

For you, maybe, but it seems that the club don't share that view.
At present, dealing with this issue on this thread is not unlike dealing with a many-headed hydra.
You've made the valid point that we should get another club's young striker in on loan. Others are making the valid point that Connolly should go out on loan. Others think it should be Connolly out on loan rather than Zeqiri (or perhaps Sima). Still others are making the valid point that we're short of strikers.

Despite the validity of all this, I can see the rationale behind the club's approach and don't disagree with it. They view that Maupay, Welbeck and Trossard can play the requisite role that we'll have to call a 'striker' (although false nine might have to come into that, as it does for the current PL and CL holders). They also view that Connolly is a decent enough support for these three. They also have to endure Locadia, until he's out of contract and off the wage bill.

They would have worked out with the players what's best for them this season. For Locadia, creaming in c35k a week is what he wants, because it's the last time he's going to get it, barring an upturn in his DJ fortunes. For Zeqiri and Sima, they want to go out on loan such that they can get more regular game time than we can offer them here, and develop their game. For Maupay, Trossard and Welbeck, things are more straight forward. For Connolly, he feels that he can make an impact here and in the PL, and can break into that first choice trio. You might view this as wrong, but he's had decent game time in the past two seasons. It might happen, it might not.

This is how (I see) the club has viewed their 'striking' options for this season. I also think that they don't view taking one of Arsenal's young strikers on loan would help the club in the long term, and would not view such a deal as a 'win' on their side. See the comment from DA referencing TB posted by [MENTION=24867]chaileyjem[/MENTION] for the explanation.

Fair enough, but this ignores the fact the Albion have gone in twice for Nunez and tried hard to get Nicolas Gonzalez. This shows they clearly aren't satisfied with what they've got.

And if you view their heat maps they both spend more time in the left channel drifting in. If the Albion feel this is an area they are short on then why wouldn't they bring in Martinelli, whose heat map is very similar to Nunez and - in particular - Gonzalez, but at 1m 83 he also gives you that height advantage over the likes of Connolly and Maupay, so something different we don't have when Welbeck is injured.

 

[Frankworthington]

Probably because we tried polishing one of Arsenal's turds before. That didn't end well did it

Paul Dickov did alright for us

Lol

 

[Pavilionaire]

Probably because we tried polishing one of Arsenal's turds before. That didn't end well did it

Are you comparing Chuba Akpom - who had made just 10 appearances and never scored for Arsenal before joining us on loan - with Martinelli who has played over 50 times for Arsenal (12 goals) and Nketiah who has played over 60 times for Arsenal (15 goals)?

 

[Super Steve Earle]

Paul Dickov did alright for us

Lol

Sorry, I should have specified which century I had in mind

 

[Swansman]

Fair enough, but this ignores the fact the Albion have gone in twice for Nunez and tried hard to get Nicolas Gonzalez. This shows they clearly aren't satisfied with what they've got.

And if you view their heat maps they both spend more time in the left channel drifting in. If the Albion feel this is an area they are short on then why wouldn't they bring in Martinelli, whose heat map is very similar to Nunez and - in particular - Gonzalez, but at 1m 83 he also gives you that height advantage over the likes of Connolly and Maupay, so something different we don't have when Welbeck is injured.

Also known as speculation

 

[Super Steve Earle]

Are you comparing Chuba Akpom - who had made just 10 appearances and never scored for Arsenal before joining us on loan - with Martinelli who has played over 50 times for Arsenal (12 goals) and Nketiah who has played over 60 times for Arsenal (15 goals)?

Yup. Akpom was also highly regarded when he came to us and switched off so far that Arsenal fans still think we ruined him.
Martinelli and Nketiah may well go out on loan with their A game intact, but maybe they too wouldn't give a toss. Albion might think once bitten, twice shy, especially as Hughton was soon confident he could make a player of Akpom.