[Albion] Ivan Toney: clever or cheating?

[ROSM]

Not defending him at all, but that last bit is easy enough: he moved his gambling habit out of football and into something else. Just because he stopped betting on football, doesn't mean he stopped betting completely - entirely possible he was still wasting thousands betting on other sports / in casinos, etc.

So given the crime he was punished for isnt something he was still doing, then i'm not sure the addiction should have carried wait as a mitigation. After all its am offence to possess class a drugs even before youve taken them so addiction isnt a factor there either?

 

[dazzer6666]

Toney placed his bets 10yrs ago, the last one being 7yrs ago, for a total of £4k. They were for his team to win too, it's not like he placed the bets recently and was involved in placing spot bets.

Football needs to really clamp down on betting sponsorships and promoting it every two mins, instead of acting holier than thou when someone gets pulled up for a bet they placed 10yrs ago.

He didn’t……bets were as recent as 2021.

“The FA originally charged Toney on November 16 with 232 alleged breaches of their betting rules between February 2017 and January 2021. An extra 30 charges were added a month later”

Explained: Toney's ban - his bets on own clubs and why it could have been worse

The written reasons behind Ivan Toney's betting ban were published on Friday. The Athletic has explained what they said…

theathletic.com

 

[GoingUp]

Oh I thought the bets were bought to light in 2021 but the bets were placed from 2014 to 2017/18.

 

[schmunk]

For me it wasn’t that he moved the ball, that happens all the time and ref either spots it or not. It was him moving the foam stuff which is my problem, that is blatent cheating and it means that he KNEW that he was cheating. He is a dishonest person, which is why I called bullshit on his gambling addiction.

This is it for me too. Toney clearly himself thought he was doing wrong ("cheating") and sought to cover it up. The moving of the foam is a guilty act.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Is it? Its nigh on impossible for managers and clubs to question refs on a matchday now. Howard webb is very keen to do his one sided tv programme with michael (not very incisive) owen. How else do they seek clarification?

Yes it is, even more so they leaked it to the press.

It stinks of a club trying to make excuses and cover a really bad defeat.

Not one Forest player on the pitch pointed it out at the time, maybe they should seek clarification as why 11 of them missed it.

If they are asking why VAR didn't pick it up, then they don't understand what VAR covers.

 

[ROSM]

Yes it is, even more so they leaked it to the press.

It stinks of a club trying to make excuses and cover a really bad defeat.

Not one Forest player on the pitch pointed it out at the time, maybe they should seek clarification as why 11 of them missed it.

If they are asking why VAR didn't pick it up, then they don't understand what VAR covers.

They already moved the wall once as he moved the ball slightly right. They didnt see him do it a second time. Maybe they didnt expect him to move the foam as well. It was at that point it became cheating. Writing to the pgmol getting clarification will help everyone

 

[dazzer6666]

Yes it is, even more so they leaked it to the press.

It stinks of a club trying to make excuses and cover a really bad defeat.

Not one Forest player on the pitch pointed it out at the time, maybe they should seek clarification as why 11 of them missed it.

If they are asking why VAR didn't pick it up, then they don't understand what VAR covers.

All of this. A simple 'Ref, he's just moved your foam and the ball' should have sorted it. Even if no-one saw it happen, if the keeper was any good he should have realised the angle had changed and his wall was in the wrong place

 

[ROSM]

Yes it is, even more so they leaked it to the press.

It stinks of a club trying to make excuses and cover a really bad defeat.

Not one Forest player on the pitch pointed it out at the time, maybe they should seek clarification as why 11 of them missed it.

If they are asking why VAR didn't pick it up, then they don't understand what VAR covers.

One other thing on this. Var is allowed to check all aspects leading up to the awarding of a goal. Why else did lee mason involve var in the dunk free kick v west brom incident? There appears tp be inconsistencies here that are needed to be clarified. So perhaps it may be that everybody, you included doesnt fully understand what VAR covers?

 

[Acker79]

Article in response to the news that Forest intend to write to the PGMOL.

Clubs blaming officials for defeats is childish and dangerous | Jonathan Wilson

Nottingham Forest say they will write to PGMOL, the body that governs the officiating of Premier League games, after Ivan Toney’s controversial goal. To what end?

www.theguardian.com

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

One other thing on this. Var is allowed to check all aspects leading up to the awarding of a goal. Why else did lee mason involve var in the dunk free kick v west brom incident? There appears tp be inconsistencies here that are needed to be clarified. So perhaps it may be that everybody, you included doesnt fully understand what VAR covers?

It's not all aspects, diving for example can't be ruled on.

Someone throws them self to the ground, game carries on and that team score, it won't be disallowed.

They didn't check on the free kick being given in the first place.

 

[ROSM]

The ifab wording says var can view incidents leading up to a goal. There is a clarification it needs to be in the same phase of play. Neither of which rules out a review here. As I say lee mason used var to cover his dunk free kick decision. So either he was wrong then or its wrong now

 

[Audax]

So given the crime he was punished for isnt something he was still doing, then i'm not sure the addiction should have carried wait as a mitigation. After all its am offence to possess class a drugs even before youve taken them so addiction isnt a factor there either?

Apples and oranges comparison there. One of them is a legal activity (gambling), the other is criminal (class A drugs). The legal situation is completely different. The FA has its own rules around gambling on football specifically, and it is the FA themselves who have chosen to accept addiction as a mitigation factor. Comparatively, the law doesn't give a rats whether you have an addiction or not (although I believe judges do have some discretion when sentencing).

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

why would VAR not inform the ref that his mark has been interfered with....?? weak from VAR , weak from the ref and snide from Toney

Because VAR has no remit to do so. More to the point why would you (and others) not know this ?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

They already moved the wall once as he moved the ball slightly right. They didnt see him do it a second time. Maybe they didnt expect him to move the foam as well. It was at that point it became cheating. Writing to the pgmol getting clarification will help everyone

Forest and you just need to accept the ref’s decision and get on with it. As Gary Neville said, they could have written privately to PGMOL. Instead they have gone public to add more pressure on referees, which just serves to completely embarrass themselves. This refusal to accept the authority of referees that you are promoting is destroying the game. Or at least it’s destroying the game at the top level.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

The ifab wording says var can view incidents leading up to a goal. There is a clarification it needs to be in the same phase of play. Neither of which rules out a review here. As I say lee mason used var to cover his dunk free kick decision. So either he was wrong then or its wrong now

And everyone knows that was a mistake to rule it out.

There is no clarification needed, Forest ( who are massive cheats themselves) know what they are doing.

Part of me hope the refs down tools and strike

 

[ROSM]

Forest and you just need to accept the ref’s decision and get on with it. As Gary Neville said, they could have written privately to PGMOL. Instead they have gone public to add more pressure on referees, which just serves to completely embarrass themselves. This refusal to accept the authority of referees that you are promoting is destroying the game. Or at least it’s destroying the game at the top level.

I havent commented on them going public. Fwiw i think that is wrong

Not sure i will take neville's judgement given how his man utd side surrounded and hassled refs

As for your last point. That's pure hyperbole

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

If they are asking why VAR didn't pick it up, then they don't understand what VAR covers.

Why doesn’t VAR cover this?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

For me it wasn’t that he moved the ball, that happens all the time and ref either spots it or not. It was him moving the foam stuff which is my problem, that is blatent cheating and it means that he KNEW that he was cheating. He is a dishonest person, which is why I called bullshit on his gambling addiction.

Fair points.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Why doesn’t VAR cover this?

Couple of reasons

1. VAR doesn't cover the positioning of a free kick
2. VAR doesn't cover restarts

Do you want to be in the stadium for 5 hours?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It's not all aspects, diving for example can't be ruled on.

Someone throws them self to the ground, game carries on and that team score, it won't be disallowed.

They didn't check on the free kick being given in the first place.

Where in the laws does it say this?