Its a hard life Oscar.

[JBizzle]

Very little to argue against there.

It does make me wonder how Sami would be viewed if he left the club next Summer, it is traditional after all, having finished 13th.
From January to May this board wasn't full up with comments along the lines of 'this is so boring, I wish I didn't go', and yet in hindsight it is now.

I can see the possibility of Oscar's over achieving 6th place being a bit of a millstone around Sami's neck come Feb/March next year.

I think you may be surprised. Although we keep being told it's a results business, it's less so for fans. Obviously getting to the playoffs was great, but it didn't feel like it for most of the season. Last season didn't feel like we progressed from the season before, this season it already feels like we have somewhat (although nothing's proven yet).

The other thing is, no maybe this board wasn't full up with comments about it being boring (and I'm not going to be petty and check), but the feeling in and around me in the stands was very negative and exactly along the "too boring" lines.

 

[Brighton TID]

And yet from out wide SD single handedly beat far and away the best team in the division, Leicester.

In yet another really really boring game that had me wishing I didn't have a season ticket, vowing I'd never come back, wishing Oscar would leave so I could slag him off ... 5 months later.

It'll be tempting to go back to NSC that weekend and read up on all those people slagging Oscar off.

We tore Leicester, by then the Champions, a new one away from home as well. A certain highlight of the season.
Also, Garcia always made a point of coming over to the Brighton fans away from home to applaud them. I only have total respect for him, and what he was trying to do with the tools he had available. Perhaps, quite a lot of folk on here never go away so only judged him on his home performances.
I would really have loved to see what he would have done in a second season with us. I think he would have taken us to a new level.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I think you may be surprised. Although we keep being told it's a results business, it's less so for fans. Obviously getting to the playoffs was great, but it didn't feel like it for most of the season. Last season didn't feel like we progressed from the season before, this season it already feels like we have somewhat (although nothing's proven yet).

The other thing is, no maybe this board wasn't full up with comments about it being boring (and I'm not going to be petty and check), but the feeling in and around me in the stands was very negative and exactly along the "too boring" lines.

I was petty and checked because I can remember writing the Mike Bailey comparison and not getting slated. The regular post match chats I allude to in my blog were with people who run two other BHA sites and a group that go to pretty much every away game. We didn't complain about boring football after both Leicester games or the 3-0 win over Charlton, that's for sure but we did for many, many others. Barnsley, Middlesboro and Ipswich stick out but they weren't unique. Nor were we the only people on the concourses discussing it. In fact the "square ball" heat map on the link I posted did the rounds of the WSL.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I can understand why fans go on about Gus after the controversial way he exited the club but not Oscar.

He, at least, left with dignity having achieved a play-off place which, with all he had to contend with, was a fine achievement. Let's not rewrite history or taint what he did for the club - yes, the football was turgid but it was important that we made the play-offs in order to establish our credentials as a top club in this division.

I, for one, will applaud him when we play Watford at The Amex (assuming he's still in that job).

 

[Brighton TID]

I was petty and checked because I can remember writing the Mike Bailey comparison and not getting slated. The regular post match chats I allude to in my blog were with people who run two other BHA sites and a group that go to pretty much every away game. We didn't complain about boring football after both Leicester games or the 3-0 win over Charlton, that's for sure but we did for many, many others. Barnsley, Middlesboro and Ipswich stick out but they weren't unique. Nor were we the only people on the concourses discussing it. In fact the "square ball" heat map on the link I posted did the rounds of the WSL.

Oscar's philosophy was 'keep ball' which is the way the Spanish like to play the game. If you can keep the ball, you prevent the opposition having it to score goals, hence our very lean defensive record. Perhaps you should have watched basketball if you wanted end to end excitement. I personally think this is the right philosophy given the difficulty of this league. Imagine if he had better players at his disposal. Perhaps we would be in the Prem now.

 

[Icy Gull]

I would really have loved to see what he would have done in a second season with us. I think he would have taken us to a new level.

Watford will reap the benefits of Oscar's second season in the Championship. They have the players, we'll see if he does in fact have the ability to send out an attacking team. I was gutted when he quit but am now warming to Sami and I have to admit to enjoying the last two home games more than just about any game last season. I say this as a big fan of Oscars too.

 

[Brighton TID]

Watford will reap the benefits of Oscar's second season in the Championship. They have the players, we'll see if he does in fact have the ability to send out an attacking team. I was gutted when he quit but am now warming to Sami and I have to admit to enjoying the last two home games more than just about any game last season. I say this as a big fan of Oscars too.

I too was gutted when the news came through that Oscar had walked. That said, I am also bloody excited by what Sami appears to be trying.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Hopefully, our players will use the 'Garcia at Watford' thing as an added incentive to do well. I expect Sami will be aware of how finishing above Oscar will increase his stock. Again, this sets up a potentially interesting promotion / play-off match-up come the end of the season.

 

[Stat Brother]

I think you may be surprised. Although we keep being told it's a results business, it's less so for fans. Obviously getting to the playoffs was great, but it didn't feel like it for most of the season. Last season didn't feel like we progressed from the season before, this season it already feels like we have somewhat (although nothing's proven yet).

The other thing is, no maybe this board wasn't full up with comments about it being boring (and I'm not going to be petty and check), but the feeling in and around me in the stands was very negative and exactly along the "too boring" lines.

I was petty and checked because I can remember writing the Mike Bailey comparison and not getting slated. The regular post match chats I allude to in my blog were with people who run two other BHA sites and a group that go to pretty much every away game. We didn't complain about boring football after both Leicester games or the 3-0 win over Charlton, that's for sure but we did for many, many others. Barnsley, Middlesboro and Ipswich stick out but they weren't unique. Nor were we the only people on the concourses discussing it. In fact the "square ball" heat map on the link I posted did the rounds of the WSL.

Don't get me wrong, I'm so much happier this season than last.

For me Oscar took Gus' team and techniques and amplified the negativity, which was already a massive part of the game under Gus.
This made Oscar saying 'expect to see more attacking football' all the more galling.

But the fact remains Oscar was successful with an injured, old and uninterested squad.
It's the omission of that fact in favour of 'I was so bored all season long' 'good riddance' 'rubbish manager' that I'm rallying against.
The unanswerable is what would Oscar have done with this squad?
I can't help thinking it would have been very good indeed.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Oscar's philosophy was 'keep ball' which is the way the Spanish like to play the game. If you can keep the ball, you prevent the opposition having it to score goals, hence our very lean defensive record. Perhaps you should have watched basketball if you wanted end to end excitement. I personally think this is the right philosophy given the difficulty of this league. Imagine if he had better players at his disposal. Perhaps we would be in the Prem now.

We had 63% possession against Charlton and my neck was just fine afterwards. 20 shots, two goals including a last minute equalizer and a crowd that went home buzzing. The heat map to which I refer was from the Middlesboro game. Which we lost 2-0.

 

[Brighton TID]

We had 63% possession against Charlton and my neck was just fine afterwards. 20 shots, two goals including a last minute equalizer and a crowd that went home buzzing. The heat map to which I refer was from the Middlesboro game. Which we lost 2-0.

Given. But let us not forget, this was Oscar's first season in the Champ, and with no proper pre-season. I thought, tactically, he hit the ground running, but, perhaps, was always trying to play catch up with the other managers.

 

[Stat Brother]

We had 63% possession against Charlton and my neck was just fine afterwards. 20 shots, two goals including a last minute equalizer and a crowd that went home buzzing. The heat map to which I refer was from the Middlesboro game. Which we lost 2-0.

But:-

"why do we play the game?"
"we play the game to win".

If the 4 opposition shots on resulting in 4 goal, is a correct stat, how long can you last with 63% possession and 1 point?

 

[Guinness Boy]

But:-

"why do we play the game?"
"we play the game to win".

If the 4 opposition shots on resulting in 4 goal, is a correct stat, how long can you last with 63% possession and 1 point?

I'm not sure I understand the point well enough to respond to it. My point was in response to the claim by another poster that if you keep the ball the opposition cannot score.

Let's take the BBC reports' statistics as accurate for a moment and compare the two games I'm talking about, Boro last season and Charlton this. In both games we had very similar possession (62% and 63%) and in both games we conceded 2 goals. However, in the latter game we scored twice because we committed men forward and took two set pieces with aplomb (something else that was bad under Oscar and WAS regularly pointed out).

Yes we play the game to win. You only need to score one more than the opposition to do so irrespective of how many you concede. I don't want to see basketball but, in general, goals = entertainment, entertainment = bums on seats, bums on seats = better players, better players = more goals.

 

[Stat Brother]

I'm not sure I understand the point well enough to respond to it. My point was in response to the claim by another poster that if you keep the ball the opposition cannot score.

Let's take the BBC reports' statistics as accurate for a moment and compare the two games I'm talking about, Boro last season and Charlton this. In both games we had very similar possession (62% and 63%) and in both games we conceded 2 goals. However, in the latter game we scored twice because we committed men forward and took two set pieces with aplomb (something else that was bad under Oscar and WAS regularly pointed out).

Yes we play the game to win. You only need to score one more than the opposition to do so irrespective of how many you concede. I don't want to see basketball but, in general, goals = entertainment, entertainment = bums on seats, bums on seats = better players, better players = more goals.

But that's just not how it works, if it did Kevin Keegan would be the world's greatest manager.

I'm wondering how long Sami (or any manager) can last without getting the results.

All the grumbling at the time, and louder retrospective moaning now doesn't change the fact that Oscar got results.
63% possession and 20 shots won't be enough if at the end of the day we don't win.

 

[Guinness Boy]

But that's just not how it works, if it did Kevin Keegan would be the world's greatest manager.

I'm wondering how long Sami (or any manager) can last without getting the results.

All the grumbling at the time, and louder retrospective moaning now doesn't change the fact that Oscar got results.
63% possession and 20 shots won't be enough if at the end of the day we don't win.

Oscar - 19 wins and 15 draws for 72 points in the league. 41% win ratio

Poyet - 19 wins and 18 draws for 75 points the season before. 41% win ratio

Sami - 2 wins in 5 league games plus a cup win (we'll call Swindon a draw). 42% win ratio if you include Cheltenham, 40% if you don't.

IF - and it is an if I grant you - all three have very similar win %s then the things that separate them will be a) what they do with the other games (i.e. draw / lose) and b) the manner in which they achieve them.

EDIT - Keegan very nearly won the league with a bang average side. It wasn't his football that lost out, it was his temperament and ability to handle pressure.

 

[Stat Brother]

Oscar - 19 wins and 15 draws for 72 points in the league. 41% win ratio

Poyet - 19 wins and 18 draws for 75 points the season before. 41% win ratio

Sami - 2 wins in 5 league games plus a cup win (we'll call Swindon a draw). 42% win ratio if you include Cheltenham, 40% if you don't.

IF - and it is an if I grant you - all three have very similar win %s then the things that separate them will be a) what they do with the other games (i.e. draw / lose) and b) the manner in which they achieve them.

EDIT - Keegan very nearly won the league with a bang average side. It wasn't his football that lost out, it was his temperament and ability to handle pressure.

Fair do's, time will tell.

For what it's worth, I'm not being 'doom and gloom' and I'm certainly not down on Sami, far from it.
I just feel Oscar's reign is getting a kicking it doesn't quite deserve.

Luckily for all of us we've had out heads turned by Sami on the strength of Bolton & Charlton.
Long may it continue.

 

[Icy Gull]

This thread and a number of others shows just how much the Albion fan's mind set has changed since we reached the Amex, We are basically having a moan about the way we got to 6th in The Championship last season. Can you imagine how we'd have reacted to fans of a club doing this when we were at Withdean or Gillingham.

"Lost my mojo, quality of football was boring" was how I felt when England were managed by Sven Goran Ericsson but most England fans didn't give a shit about the quality of the football, it was all about the results. Never thought I'd hear Brighton fans whinging about it when the results were actually pretty good.

I do get why people were disillusioned but reading these threads it appears that last season was shit from beginning to end, which I don't think it was.

 

[Stat Brother]

I do get why people were disillusioned but reading these threads it appears that last season was shit from beginning to end, which I don't think it was.

and if it was, many that are moaning now, weren't moaning then. (even taking on board [MENTION=616]Guinness Boy[/MENTION]'s post)

 

[Daffy Duck]

I don't think that people were disillusioned about where we finished in the last two seasons. Pretty much everyone I know was amazed that we got into the play-offs both times.
But it was the way in which we keeled over without so much as a fight in those play-off games. Now that was hard to take.

 

[AmexRuislip]

and if it was, many that are moaning now, weren't moaning then. (even taking on board @Guinness Boy's post)

Journalists always have a point to give in their articles, even if it does sometimes stray away from the real story.
When I posted this thread, I thought it would create a lot of pros & cons for OG.
I believe as others have said that OG took over under the shadow left by GP.
All the comments made have proved that everyone wants Brighton to be better than anyone else.
Moving to the Amex has given Brighton a new lease of life of getting away from shackled times at the Withdean.
Over to you Sammi