[Politics] Italy elects a 'far right' government

[shingle]

So if it's not perception, then what determines what is good or evil? Is there some law of nature deciding? How do you measure it without using your subjective perception?

In no way now or ever can you say that the crimes of Nazi Germany against the Jews or for that matter Pol Pot against ordinary Cambodians is a matter of perception, it was plain bad and wicked then, and will be bad and wicked in a thousand years, perception's got nothing to do with it.

 

[shingle]

Swannys English language skills are exceptional considering he is non native, he just spouts a lot of rambling 'bollox' from time to time, that's all.

 

[Swansman]

The summary is that he has special insight into things the rest of us can't possible understand, although we could if we were not so naïve, gullible, programmed and subservient.

No it is all quite possible to understand. Plenty of people understand Meads theories about symbolic interactionism, Bruno Gödels theorem on formal systems and Thomas Kuhns takes on paradigm shifts and how these theories have developed over time and can be applied on society to describe why we in uncertain times of change often try to find comfort in going back or trying to go back to "the good old days"

I see you agree with another poster questioning that good and evil may not come from our perception, and the human mind in general. So mr scientistic, where is the scientific evidence for the concept of evil? How do you test what is good and evil in a lab?

 

[The Clamp]

I have expressed my opinion on another thread recently about the EU and from my part a certain amount of regret about voting to leave, but I wonder what many NSC Europhiles think about so many of the member states lurching so far to the right. Somehow I don't think Italy is the end of the story.

What connection do you see between voting for the right and being in the EU? We aren’t in the EU and we have a far right government.

And you say “so many of the member states”. Can you qualify that by naming and numbering them?

 

[The Clamp]

In no way now or ever can you say that the crimes of Nazi Germany against the Jews or for that matter Pol Pot against ordinary Cambodians is a matter of perception, it was plain bad and wicked then, and will be bad and wicked in a thousand years, perception's got nothing to do with it.

The Nazis and their supporters thought they were good.

 

[Eeyore]

Swannys English language skills are exceptional considering he is non native, he just spouts a lot of rambling 'bollox' from time to time, that's all.

He may have ways that seem odd to me, but I take time to read what he says and understand where his heart is. What he wrote above, when read carefully, made a lot of sense and I thought about it. I have a similar take and I think it's an important point especially in the modern age of information flooding.

Some may dismiss it. Not because it is bollox, but simply because it is presented in a way that doesn't register with them.

In many ways that feed into his message though. It's all about symbols and prompts.

 

[Swansman]

In no way now or ever can you say that the crimes of Nazi Germany against the Jews or for that matter Pol Pot against ordinary Cambodians is a matter of perception, it was plain bad and wicked then, and will be bad and wicked in a thousand years, perception's got nothing to do with it.

I'm not disagreeing those things were evil, but why do I think so? Because of our collective and individual beliefs. The reason why you will never see any scientific research lead to a conclusion that something is evil is because it is a man-made construction.

I'm not saying our individual and collective beliefs should be abandoned, because we need them to function in this world. If we don't have a universal collective belief that a piece of paper with numbers on it has value, we're in deep shit because the entire economic system would collapse. If we don't have a universal collective belief that killing innocent people is something we shouldn't do, we're in deep shit because our societies would collapse, and not much would remain of our species. But is there some kind of physical law that says one thing is good and one thing is evil? There isn't.

And since our universal collective beliefs are not always as "universal" as they seem, we have to protect these beliefs, or someone may change them for us. There is nothing that suggests that the brain can not be programmed to change beliefs, because history tells us that has indeed been the case - always. And considering that, if we think that for instance a corporation able to send a lot of code (symbols, like words and pictures) into our brains, telling us eg "maybe killing innocent people aren't that bad after all...", we have to be aware that we're not immune to turning into what our current collective beliefs would call evil. Understanding how we function makes us more resilient and increases our chances of defending ourselves from being infected with malicious code.

 

[shingle]

What connection do you see between voting for the right and being in the EU? We aren’t in the EU and we have a far right government.

And you say “so many of the member states”. Can you qualify that by naming and numbering them?

I thought I did. Poland, Hungary, Sweden, Italy are all member states are they not. France nearly fell and things like this can be contagious. How many elections are coming up across the EU?, particularly Baltic states and former Eastern block countries. Are you not a little concerned about the direction of things, Its also a bit over the top to say that we've got a far right government

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

Swannys English language skills are exceptional considering he is non native, he just spouts a lot of rambling 'bollox' from time to time, that's all.

He is about as swedish as I am

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Jacob Rees-Mogg for Prime MInister a Tory MP that looks like he is from the 18th ccentury and would welcome back work houses for the poor.

That is my guess

I thought it was James Ramsey McDonald

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramsay_MacDonald

 

[Swansman]

He is about as swedish as I am

Vilket ju bara är härligt. Kul med fler svenskar här.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Vilket ju bara är härligt. Kul med fler svenskar här.

You would say that.

 

[shingle]

You would say that.

 

[The Clamp]

I thought I did. Poland, Hungary, Sweden, Italy are all member states are they not. France nearly fell and things like this can be contagious. How many elections are coming up across the EU?, particularly Baltic states and former Eastern block countries. Are you not a little concerned about the direction of things, Its also a bit over the top to say that we've got a far right government

Truss is far right. She hides it well.

You have named four countries out of 27. Hardly a trend.

So what’s the connection between being in the EU and having a far right government? I couldn’t see your explanation.

 

[shingle]

Truss is far right. She hides it well.

You have named four countries out of 27. Hardly a trend.

So what’s the connection between being in the EU and having a far right government? I couldn’t see your explanation.

The point I was making is that there are people in the EU who are voting in "far right" governments and I was asking people what is the reason for this, and as an aside how would the traditional remainers in the Uk feel about being part of an organisation where many of their fellow Europeans were politically very, very different to them.

And if Truss is far right where are Orban, Le Pen and Meloni on the political map ... extra, extra, extra far right. I've got no dog in the race in this one clampy, I'm just asking a few questions as I know there are some NSC ers who have very strong opinions about some of these issues.

 

[shingle]

I also found it a bit odd that after two days there wasn't a thread on the Italian vote, normally some NSC ers are all over news like this.

 

[The Clamp]

The point I was making is that there are people in the EU who are voting in "far right" governments and I was asking people what is the reason for this, and as an aside how would the traditional remainers in the Uk feel about being part of an organisation where many of their fellow Europeans were politically very, very different to them.

And if Truss is far right where are Orban, Le Pen and Meloni on the political map ... extra, extra, extra far right. I've got no dog in the race in this one clampy, I'm just asking a few questions as I know there are some NSC ers who have very strong opinions about some of these issues.

I’m not sure why you are primarily referring to these countries as EU member states. As if that has some bearing.

 

[carlzeiss]

Truss is far right. She hides it well.

You have named four countries out of 27. Hardly a trend.

So what’s the connection between being in the EU and having a far right government? I couldn’t see your explanation.

" Far Right " and what exactly do you mean by that ?

 

[shingle]

I’m not sure why you are primarily referring to these countries as EU member states. As if that has some bearing.

Come on Clampy, you're one of the more sensible posters on here, don't be obtuse.

 

[The Clamp]

Come on Clampy, you're one of the more sensible posters on here, don't be obtuse.

I simply don’t see why you’re framing this as an EU issue.