[News] It will be kicking off again in Catalonia soon

[LamieRobertson]

A manority..........somewhere between a majority and a minority?

I reckon he's being clever...one word covering two meanings ..genius

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

What a complete load of b0ll0cks.

Catalan was a separate nation for hundreds of years. They have their own language and culture totally different to Spanish. Their language was BANNED until 40 years ago. Jail or death for just speaking it.

They have been an independent nation in history.

Crawley hasn't.

Ignorant post assuming you know what you are talking about when obviously you don't.

As was Galicia, Asturias, Cantabra and the basque region to name a few more. They all have there own culture and language. Galician was also banned by Franco, who ironically was born in el ferrol which is in Galicia.
Another irony is that Catalonia was very much against Basque independence .......

 

[portlock seagull]

So, out of interest, what exactly do you think Franco would have done differently in these circumstances (apart from being more extreme, brutal and bloody)?

You just undermined your argument there.

 

[portlock seagull]

What a complete load of b0ll0cks.

Catalan was a separate nation for hundreds of years. They have their own language and culture totally different to Spanish. Their language was BANNED until 40 years ago. Jail or death for just speaking it.

They have been an independent nation in history.

Crawley hasn't.

Ignorant post assuming you know what you are talking about when obviously you don't.

Hook line and sinker. The clue was Crawley. What a pollock.

 

[larus]

Yes, I see what you are saying. The referendum did show 90% in favour, but then, if all figures can be believed, only 43% of eligible voters bothered, and one could safely assume that most of the other 57% would have voted -no. Given that this is presumably the scenario, why doesn't the Spanish Government endorse democracy and agree to a proper referendum, which is likely to give them an outcome they want. Repression usually drives folk into a corner. That to my mind makes sense, but I don't pretend to know that much about it.

That's a pretty big assumption to make. Lets assume that the turnout would have reached 86% (double the actual and a decent turnout), then you'd need 90% of the other 43% to balance things. I'm not so certain your assumption is correct.

 

[Hastings gull]

That's a pretty big assumption to make. Lets assume that the turnout would have reached 86% (double the actual and a decent turnout), then you'd need 90% of the other 43% to balance things. I'm not so certain your assumption is correct.

Yes, you may be right. We don't know of course. I am only basing this on what I read, namely that those in C who prefer to stay with Spain do not get involved in voting and ignored the referendum. Not very scientific of course, but if you are keen on independence then you far are more likely to be active. In any case it is worth putting it to the test, and let them have a proper vote or whatever.

 

[Creaky]

If they had allowed a legal referendum, almost inevitably it would have resulted in a no, as polling showed pre-referendum a majority of 60/40 in favour or remaining part of Spain. This would then have decided the matter for a generation. By insisting on no dialogue and imposing direct rule, that 60% is likely to go down rather than up. Spain is storing up a lot of problems for the future by this course of action IMO

How would it be possible to have a ‘legal’ referendum, binding or otherwise, when the Spanish constitution specifically states that secession from the Spanish nation by any region is not an option. The constitution would have to be amended before any referendum could be held and that would open up a can of worms with regards to the Basque Country.

 

[nicko31]

Good to see the Spanish taking back control, you could split Spain and Italy up into about 20 tin pot nations

Perhaps, we should do the same with the Scots

 

[GT49er]

You just undermined your argument there.

No, I think not. Your ridiculing of someone else's post is looking rather shaky though.

 

[larus]

Yes, you may be right. We don't know of course. I am only basing this on what I read, namely that those in C who prefer to stay with Spain do not get involved in voting and ignored the referendum. Not very scientific of course, but if you are keen on independence then you far are more likely to be active. In any case it is worth putting it to the test, and let them have a proper vote or whatever.

There’s no right answer here. Should a region have the ability to decide to leave a country where they don’t wish to be (this is on the assumption that there is a free vote and the vote is for independence)?

I think yes. Before anyone pipes up about Crawley or something else which is stupid, they would need to have the ability to be a self-sustaining country, own banking system, courts, parliament etc. Now, Catalonia has a reasonable amount of that in place already, so you can’t compare it to your own home or a small town.

The UK allowed Scotland a free vote and it was no. This is the right way to go, because on the long run, this will only lead to civil unrest I fear as resentlemtn will be fuelled even more, especially with Spain taking back autonomous rule.

 

[portlock seagull]

No, I think not. Your ridiculing of someone else's post is looking rather shaky though.

Then you’re a cretin for not being able to tell the difference between Franco, Hitler and today’s Spanish leadership, who are in no way comparable. What else is there to do but ridicule such idiotic reasoning? And of course the level of sarchasm is proportionate to the level of stupidity in such instances.

 

[brightn'ove]

If they had allowed a legal referendum, almost inevitably it would have resulted in a no, as polling showed pre-referendum a majority of 60/40 in favour or remaining part of Spain. This would then have decided the matter for a generation. By insisting on no dialogue and imposing direct rule, that 60% is likely to go down rather than up. Spain is storing up a lot of problems for the future by this course of action IMO

Pretty sure that was David Cameron’s rationale with the Brexit vote. It didn’t quite work out how the polls predicted...

 

[GT49er]

Then you’re a cretin for not being able to tell the difference between Franco, Hitler and today’s Spanish leadership, who are in no way comparable. What else is there to do but ridicule such idiotic reasoning? And of course the level of sarchasm is proportionate to the level of stupidity in such instances.

Oh, good one. Go for abuse - so clever. My respect for you is ever growing..........................not. Goodbye.

 

[Saunders]

Pretty sure that was David Cameron’s rationale with the Brexit vote. It didn’t quite work out how the polls predicted...

The scottish vote is more relevant though and that did work out how the polls predicted. Had the UK behaved the same way that Spain did and refused a scottish referendum It could have ended up just as messily. I question the decision also to try to quash this vote it has only made things worse.


Edit typing

 

[sant andreu]

Speaking as someone who lives in Catalonia, I've never been strongly against or for independence, but the actions of the Spanish govt (not just on 1 October but all along, everything they do) - and also the Spanish media - have made the divide so much greater, creating a real 'us against them' feel. It's such a pity because most of the Spanish population are very decent people who Catalans love. However, there is a minority (the PP government was voted in by only 25% of the electorate) who agree with the PP. For what it's worth, regarding comparisons to Franco above, the PP was born out of the remains of Franco's dictatorship.
Anyway, as I said, their inflexible "no, no, no, we don't like you or your opinions" approach, along with the brutality and the recent imprisonment of pacifist civil rights leaders (Jordi Sánchez and Jordi Coixart) has really helped make it feel like a different country, given the very different approach taken here.

 

[Hastings gull]

How would it be possible to have a ‘legal’ referendum, binding or otherwise, when the Spanish constitution specifically states that secession from the Spanish nation by any region is not an option. The constitution would have to be amended before any referendum could be held and that would open up a can of worms with regards to the Basque Country.

While I am sure that you are right, constitutions can surely be amended. I suspect that the Spanish Government would be loath to do that, given the basques, as you say.