[Politics] It is time to end free speech

[alfredmizen]

The coppers were drafted in from the Met & home counties. That's a fact. They waved their wads of overtime cash in the faces of broken men. I despised Scargill for his refusal to compromise as much as I despised Thatcher. I don't hold grudges. I feel differently now thanks to 'free speech' and being able to consider arguments that challenge and inform my beliefs. Since living down here I've been educated by men that mined coal in Kent & suffered too. That's not what this is about though.

You never saw a Muslim in the Miners Welfare Club. It wasn't some pansy modern 'hashtagtogetherness' for you to ridicule. It was harder times than you can imagine, and everyone involved suffered regardless of ethnicity or faith. Your wish to belittle it means nothing to me. It is what it is.

Can you tell me how a community such as that in my home town, where the demographic of asian faiths hasn't changed in half a century, has turned in to what it has?

how about bollox harder times than i can imagine , my dad was on strike for over a year 1985/6 , your question has been answered by jc footy genius , but as ive already sajd i think this togetherness is a figment of your rose tinted imagination, i mustve imagined things when i saw.greater manchester, merseysjde and scores.of.other nortbern policeforces at.picket lines during tbe strike , as for scargill, he started that strike with a big union and a small house , he finished it with a small union and a big ho.use

 

[alfredmizen]

Prepare for round two. Tommy's back in the park next Sunday at 3pm

hes not , its been cancelled

 

[alfredmizen]

I'm open to considering any view that challenges my own, but I find it incredibly hard to believe that the crimes you reference are exclusively down to faith. Those crimes are the work of criminals, and for what it's worth I could argue that what you described just then was catholicism.

deluded

 

[alfredmizen]

Says it all

 

[jonnyrovers]

how about bollox harder times than i can imagine , my dad was on strike for over a year 1985/6 , your question has been answered by jc footy genius , but as ive already sajd i think this togetherness is a figment of your rose tinted imagination, i mustve imagined things when i saw.greater manchester, merseysjde and scores.of.other nortbern policeforces at.picket lines during tbe strike , as for scargill, he started that strike with a big union and a small house , he finished it with a small union and a big ho.use

Hilarious. First you want a "I had harder times than you" competition. Then you think the miners strike was some halcyon 'rose tinted' dream. Next you point out the obvious fact that there are coppers up north too. You finish by trying to dig me over Scargill when I've already shared my negative view of him. Are you 13 years old?

 

[jonnyrovers]

deluded

Bored

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I'm open to considering any view that challenges my own, but I find it incredibly hard to believe that the crimes you reference are exclusively down to faith. Those crimes are the work of criminals, and for what it's worth I could argue that what you described just then was catholicism.

Your view was the loss of solidarity and rise in hatred was down to the 'rhetoric of the racists and fascists that have been waiting like sleeper cells to be mobilised' dismissing numerous acts of terrorism as a contributing factor. Would racists have gained any significant traction if there wasn't some very real underlying issues that many percieved were being ignored or supressed by main stream politicians? I didn't say the crimes were 'exclusively down to faith' but faith is one significant element in many cases.

 

[alfredmizen]

Hilarious. First you want a "I had harder times than you" competition. Then you think the miners strike was some halcyon 'rose tinted' dream. Next you point out the obvious fact that there are coppers up north too. You finish by trying to dig me over Scargill when I've already shared my negative view of him. Are you 13 years old?

first of all i was agreeing with you re scargill , as for your other points YOU told me.that they were harder times than i could imagine , i merely pointed out that my immediate family had experienced the trauma of a.year long strike , unlike yours so its slightly remiss of.you to be lecturing ME on hardships , and YOU talked about battling "southern coppers" , i again merely highlighted that northern coppers were.also involved , you try to come across as condescending and intelligent and fail miserably because youre quite simply , not

 

[looney]

what is it that you find so objectionable about tommy robinson ?

Its probably a class thing in part and political gamesmanship. His sins are far less than Nelson Mandelas were, and the same people who slag of TR because of his past will worship Mandela.

Double Standards.

 

[jonnyrovers]

Your view was the loss of solidarity and rise in hatred was down to the 'rhetoric of the racists and fascists that have been waiting like sleeper cells to be mobilised' dismissing numerous acts of terrorism as a contributing factor. Would racists have gained any significant traction if there wasn't some very real underlying issues that many percieved were being ignored or supressed by main stream politicians? I didn't say the crimes were 'exclusively down to faith' but faith is one significant element in many cases.

It would be foolish of me not to agree in part to what you've said regarding the traction gained in the wake of terrorism. I could also have worded my 'racist/fascist rhetoric' argument better. A previous post from a more articulate wordsmith than me summed up the religious element perfectly, in that all holy books are open to multiple interpretations and contextual confusion. A criminal will find his motivation somewhere, and if that motivation is Islam (or his version of it) it does not automatically mean Islam is to blame.

I do whole heartedly believe that indiscriminate hatred for the sake of hatred for blacks and Asians existed long before Jihadi acts of violence. Now those haters have a molehill they are hellbent on constructing a mountain.

I also stand by my comment that the list of crimes you quoted could just as easily have been committed by a gang of catholic priests & idealistic Irishmen.

 

[jonnyrovers]

first of all i was agreeing with you re scargill , as for your other points YOU told me.that they were harder times than i could imagine , i merely pointed out that my immediate family had experienced the trauma of a.year long strike , unlike yours so its slightly remiss of.you to be lecturing ME on hardships , and YOU talked about battling "southern coppers" , i again merely highlighted that northern coppers were.also involved , you try to come across as condescending and intelligent and fail miserably because youre quite simply , not

If I come across as intelligent its definitely an accident because you're right, I'm not. If I come across as condescending towards you it's absolutely no accident. I think I'm nicer than you, kinder than you, more empathetic than you, and a more considered thinker than you. You can have the final word, I've no interest today in further dialogue with a reactive ape.

 

[alfredmizen]

If I come across as intelligent its definitely an accident because you're right, I'm not. If I come across as condescending towards you it's absolutely no accident. I think I'm nicer than you, kinder than you, more empathetic than you, and a more considered thinker than you. You can have the final word, I've no interest today in further dialogue with a reactive ape.

i said you "try" to come across as intelligent , not that you do , i think youre a tosser.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

It would be foolish of me not to agree in part to what you've said regarding the traction gained in the wake of terrorism. I could also have worded my 'racist/fascist rhetoric' argument better. A previous post from a more articulate wordsmith than me summed up the religious element perfectly, in that all holy books are open to multiple interpretations and contextual confusion. A criminal will find his motivation somewhere, and if that motivation is Islam (or his version of it) it does not automatically mean Islam is to blame.

I do whole heartedly believe that indiscriminate hatred for the sake of hatred for blacks and Asians existed long before Jihadi acts of violence. Now those haters have a molehill they are hellbent on constructing a mountain.

I also stand by my comment that the list of crimes you quoted could just as easily have been committed by a gang of catholic priests & idealistic Irishmen.

The Holy books being open to multiple interpretations line hides the fact there are some underlying tenets that increase the likelihood of intolerance bigotry, mysogony, division , mistrust and problems intergrating (eg poll finding a majority of UK Muslims think homosexualty should be illegal).

I doubt you can find examples of gangs of Catholic Priests picking their victims using the criteria of colour and religion or idealistic Irishmen flying planes into skyscrapers.

 

[jonnyrovers]

The Holy books being open to multiple interpretations line hides the fact there are some underlying tenets that increase the likelihood of intolerance bigotry, mysogony, division , mistrust and problems intergrating (eg poll finding a majority of UK Muslims think homosexualty should be illegal).

I doubt you can find examples of gangs of Catholic Priests picking their victims using the criteria of colour and religion or idealistic Irishmen flying planes into skyscrapers.

I'll bet there'd be short odds on most UK based Russians, Ukrainians, Bulgarians thinking homosexuality should be illegal. Do you attribute the qualities listed above based on that criteria?

Some gangs of Catholic Priests abuse groups of children. Some Irishmen blow innocent people up. I stopped short of making the ridiculous similarities you suggest.

I accept that the underlying tenets you've referred to exist, but many of them also exist in the holy texts of other faiths too, so why the focus on Islam?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I'll bet there'd be short odds on most UK based Russians, Ukrainians, Bulgarians thinking homosexuality should be illegal. Do you attribute the qualities listed above based on that criteria?

Some gangs of Catholic Priests abuse groups of children. Some Irishmen blow innocent people up. I stopped short of making the ridiculous similarities you suggest.

I accept that the underlying tenets you've referred to exist, but many of them also exist in the holy texts of other faiths too, so why the focus on Islam?

The whataboutery continues. In what way are other religions or even nationalities prejudices/heinous criminal acts a defence for Islam?

You may have noticed Islamist terrorism has been in the news for well over a decade and poses the biggest threat at the moment. If believers in x religion had a similar track record I would hope and expect they would fall under a similar spotlight.

 

[jonnyrovers]

The whataboutery continues. In what way are other religions or even nationalities prejudices/heinous criminal acts a defence for Islam?

You may have noticed Islamist terrorism has been in the news for well over a decade and poses the biggest threat at the moment. If believers in x religion had a similar track record I would hope and expect they would fall under a similar spotlight.

If the 'similar spotlight' means a very measured and targeted scrutiny on terrorists, with very measured & targeted action if required, I fully agree with you. If it means accepting that peaceful British citizens are being bullied and hated by thugs in their own country, I'm opposed.

In pointing out other religion's/nation's similar crimes I'm asking why only target brown skinned Muslims when so many other faiths/ethnicities have their fair share of attributable f**k ups. I won't defend, and have not defended any criminal acts.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

If the 'similar spotlight' means a very measured and targeted scrutiny on terrorists, with very measured & targeted action if required, I fully agree with you. If it means accepting that peaceful British citizens are being bullied and hated by thugs in their own country, I'm opposed.

In pointing out other religion's/nation's similar crimes I'm asking why only target brown skinned Muslims when so many other faiths/ethnicities have their fair share of attributable f**k ups. I won't defend, and have not defended any criminal acts.

You are tying yourself in knots. The threat from Islamic terrorism is rather higher than that from Bulgarian homophobes.

 

[jonnyrovers]

You are tying yourself in knots. The threat from Islamic terrorism is rather higher than that from Bulgarian homophobes.

Thanks for enlightening me. I do however have it on good authority that the Sofia Homophobic Insurgency Tactical Combat Unit Nihilism Team have purchased a HANG GLIDER and plan to fly it in to THE QUEENS HEAD in Kemptown.


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[knocky1]

Its probably a class thing in part and political gamesmanship. His sins are far less than Nelson Mandelas were, and the same people who slag of TR because of his past will worship Mandela.

Double Standards.

Classic.