[Football] ISIS Threats - Do they Realise that with all the Security Forces adding EXTRA security a successful attack is highly unlikely -

[Questions]

Also ISIS have guns and bombs, football matches are secured against knives and bottle tops.

A bomb made out of bottle tops …. Bloody hell just think ?

 

[nickbrighton]

i am surprised at the tone of some of the replies. Even with hightened security, having 30-60 THOUSAND people entering a relativley small area in a short space of time means that however vigilant security staff are, its frankly impossible to search everyone adequatley to be 100% sure that nothing will occur inside the stadium

You only have to look to Ukraine to see how effective drones are- imagine the carnage if someone were to orchestrate a drone attack on a full stadium. Even a small comercially available drone could cause havoc either inside the stadium or outside as crowds arrive

The security services are magnificent and stop more attacks than the general public are ever aware of but they simply cant stop everything everytime
It has been said that a terrorist only has to be lucky ONCE while the security services have to be lucky, and right, every single time.

Whist these threats may well just be designed to cause disruption and have no substance other than to inconvienience as many people as possible, without having to actually do anything, there is the possibility that someone will attempt an attack,and to treat the threat lightly, or assume that the security services are going to stop anything is foolhardy in the extreme.

 

[wealdgull]

This is doing the rounds allegedly posted by ISIS

View attachment 180222

Has anyone told them that it's Parc de Princes?

 

[Mr Bridger]

See Real Madrid have applied to have the roof shut for tonight’s game…. That’ll give it some Oomph!

 

[Acker79]

Depends what you mean by ‘disruption’ - I don’t think laying on extra security counts as a win personally- it is the extra security that makes us less vulnerable if the security forces receive intelligence of a major terrorist attack - would you rather they didn’t lay on extra security?.

By disruption I meant that they were successful with whatever attack they were planning. That if they can commit an attack despite the extra security it shows that security as ineffective and us as vulnerable despite whatever measure we take. As a terrorist force, that would be the point of announcing it ahead of time.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

If they were going to do something, they would just do it not make threats and give advance warnings.

 

[Withdean11]

Scanner - "Beeeeep"
Security - "What's that?"
Me - "My Keys"
Security - "Oh OK. No need to get them out, just make sure you take your hat off on the way through"

Good luck getting through that high level of security ISIS.

 

[Zeberdi]

i am surprised at the tone of some of the replies. Even with hightened security, having 30-60 THOUSAND people entering a relativley small area in a short space of time means that however vigilant security staff are, its frankly impossible to search everyone adequatley to be 100% sure that nothing will occur inside the stadium

You only have to look to Ukraine to see how effective drones are- imagine the carnage if someone were to orchestrate a drone attack on a full stadium. Even a small comercially available drone could cause havoc either inside the stadium or outside as crowds arrive

The security services are magnificent and stop more attacks than the general public are ever aware of but they simply cant stop everything everytime
It has been said that a terrorist only has to be lucky ONCE while the security services have to be lucky, and right, every single time.

Whist these threats may well just be designed to cause disruption and have no substance other than to inconvienience as many people as possible, without having to actually do anything, there is the possibility that someone will attempt an attack,and to treat the threat lightly, or assume that the security services are going to stop anything is foolhardy in the extreme.

Exactly.

When was the last major terrorist attack on UK soil? (I don’t count half a dozen people being killed in a shopping centre or anywhere with a machete).

As said I was not being blasé in my OP but talking about major terrorist threats inside the Champions League host stadiums this week as discovered by specific threats. I wasn’t referring to train stations etc If we are widening the debate to train stations etc, of course there is a threat, there always is.

All train stations, especially underground stations, major concerts and sporting events are at risk generally and have been for decades (first by the IRA and then by jihadist groups. But the risk has remained substantial not severe or critical, even with these threats to the Champions League stadium (ie the Emirates) so I think we are pretty safe from being blown up by terrorists at the moment.

https://www.mi5.gov.uk/threats-and-advice/terrorism-threat-levels

IF the SECURITY SERVICES received specific threats then EXTRA security measures will be put in place which is why ISIS have a hope in hell of bombing a football match or infiltrating the terraces with a load of gunman carried automatic machine guns because a highly organised threat like that would produce enough chatter to prevent an attack. I suspect/would hope if the threats included a suspected possibility of a drone attack, security measures would find a way to either keep all unlicensed drones away from the stadium (by shooting them down or cancelling the match) - it is illegal to fly a drone over a crowd in the stadium anyway because the operator has to have the drone in sight all the time and am pretty darn sure it would be very difficult indeed to sneak a drone into a stadium by going through the gates.

That does not mean, there is generally no chance of terror attacks in the UK, the threat remains substantial so no, no room to be blase, just realistic, non-alarmist and sensible.

 

[Zeberdi]

If they were going to do something, they would just do it not make threats and give advance warnings.

The ‘warnings’ and ‘threats’ don’t come from terrorists, it comes from the security and intelligence services that have picked up information that leads them to believe that there is evidence that merits extra security measures or enough evidence to raise the ‘threat’ level..

(The IRA btw, often gave warnings)

 

[Bry Nylon]

When was the last major terrorist attack on UK soil?

No sure if it was the most recent, but the 2017 bombing of the Manchester Arena foyer at the end of the Ariana Grande concert killed 22 people and injured a further one thousand plus.

Salman Abedi didn't need to enter the actual concert hall or pass any security cordons to inflict this carnage. Of course, the subsequent inquiry identified numerous missed opportunities that could have prevented the attack, not least that he was know to the security services (as often seems the case) but also security staff at the venue failed to follow protocols and procedures when he was reported to be acting suspiciously in the immediate period leading up to detonating his device.

TL;DR - securing the venue and searching people going in only mitigates against a small part of the risk

 

[Zeberdi]

If thugs can get flairs in (and clearly they can) a small but very nasty explosive device shouldn't be a problem!

Well best to stay away from football matches would be my advice if you are going to be worried that someone is going to sneak through the gates with a bomb in their pocket because I couldn’t live my life with that level of anxiety - I’m not an explosives expert but pretty sure the amount of semtex/fuses etc required to cause mass casualties would be very easily detected because they would be somewhat larger than a flare. Of course a suicide bomber could carry enough explosives to blow up a corner of the South Stand and take out a few score of away supporters but do we really think a suicide bomber could get through the turnstiles without the stewards noticing he had on an enormous bulky overcoat? Suicide bombers also have links to an organising group, there is far more likely chatter would be picked up in the preparation of such an attack.

I would say, concerts still carry a greater risk than football stadium even without additional security.

No sure if it was the most recent, but the 2017 bombing of the Manchester Arena foyer at the end of the Ariana Grande concert killed 22 people and injured a further one thousand plus.

Many of those deaths occurred as a result of a failure of emergency services and overall failure of security services but yes, a concert attack, the risk I referred to in my second post. This thread or rather at least my first post relates to my view with regard particularly to threats received regarding football matches, more specifically, the Champions league host stadia.

TL;DR - securing the venue and searching people going in only mitigates against a small part of the risk

Sorry my post is so long but I am trying to cover every push back of my originally post that was misinderstood - and accused me of being blasé about terrorism - As for your point re. the venue and searches - that’s why I said EXTRA SECURITY put in place for the Champions League matches or any other Premier League stadiums in response to specific threats, on top of existing security measures will mitigate/foil most attempts/plans. Of course those security forces won’t just be in place inside the stadia, there will be at least a several mile radius of extra security - including rail stations, pubs/cafes, concourse etc

AGAIN - I am not saying there is no risk in general but there is also not enough likelihood of us or any of us, all being blown up in a terrorist attack at a football match with extra security in place to warrant a hyperbolic and scaremongering reaction to todays news.

 

[A1X]

Threats made to stadiums hosting Champions League matches but do ISIS or any other terrorist group realise just how much security already surrounds top flight football stadia in Europe and the UK?

Does it? Yes, there’s a police presence but most people enter the Amex without being scanned and bag checks are rudimentary at best. Compare this to a test match at the Oval where everyone entering the stadium is swept with a metal scanner and every bag is checked thoroughly.

I can’t speak for other PL stadia but we seem to prioritise getting people in over proper security (scanning is stopped when queues build up outside WSL).

 

[dwayne]

OP off the mark again

I reckon it would be easy to carry out an attack at a stadium and easy to cause quite a bit of damage. I occasionally go to London matches as part of work booze ups, corporate crap, and the checks are flimsy at best. When I went to Ajax in the business seats I'm not even sure I was checked !!

Euros at wembley during COVID would have been a perfect time to see execute something nasty. It was an absolute mess.

 

[Zeberdi]

By disruption I meant that they were successful with whatever attack they were planning. That if they can commit an attack despite the extra security it shows that security as ineffective and us as vulnerable despite whatever measure we take. As a terrorist force, that would be the point of announcing it ahead of time.

As I said above - there seems to be confusion with the terminology

A terrorist ‘threat’ in this context - is not a terror group announcing anything ahead of time but intelligence gathered by security services that leads them to believe there is a ‘threat’ of terrorism (noun not verb) - eg the M15 link above gives the terrorism ‘threat’ level for the UK at the moment as ‘substantial’ based on an analysis of all the current risks.

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

Christ @Zeberdi give it rest. Every one of your posts you drone on and on and on and on...........................

 

[Zeberdi]

Does it? Yes, there’s a police presence but most people enter the Amex without being scanned and bag checks are rudimentary at best. Compare this to a test match at the Oval where everyone entering the stadium is swept with a metal scanner and every bag is checked thoroughly.

I can’t speak for other PL stadia but we seem to prioritise getting people in over proper security (scanning is stopped when queues build up outside WSL).

Again, misreading my original post - I said IN ADDITION to extra security because of specific threats. A major attack would have intelligence gathered leading up to it - that’s why the announcement about the Champions League having extra security on top of the existing security. If there was any security alerts, you can be sure the existing security infrastructure would be going into overdrive and the security services insisting that proper searches and scans were carried out.

 

[Zeberdi]

Christ @Zeberdi give it rest. Every one of your posts you drone on and on and on and on...........................

And every post is quoting me and contradicting me based on a misunderstanding of my original post ffs so thanks for that @hans kraay fan club - so of course I am responding to defend what I said.

I am not blasé about terrorism, I take umbrage at being accused so of being. I am just not into scaremongering, living my life in fear of ISIS or hyperbolic reactions to news stories that have the situation under control.

I did not say we are risk free - anywhere.

I said ISIS have a hope of hell getting into a Champions League stadium or any other Premier League stadia with all the extra security on top of the existing security infrastructure that UEFA will be ensuring is carried out properly in response to a terror alert.

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

And every post is quoting me and contradicting me based on a misunderstanding of my original post ffs so of course I am responding to defend what I said.

I am not blasé about terrorism, I take umbrage at being accused so of being. I am just not into scaremongering, living my life in fear of ISIS or hyperbolic reactions to news stories that have the situation under control.

I did not say we are risk free - anywhere.

I said ISIS have a hope of hell getting into a Champions League stadium or any other Premier League stadia with all the extra security on top of the existing security infrastructure that UEFA will be ensuring is carried out properly in response to a terror alert.

DRONE INCOMING

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

The ‘warnings’ and ‘threats’ don’t come from terrorists, it comes from the security and intelligence services that have picked up information that leads them to believe that there is evidence that merits extra security measures or enough evidence to raise the ‘threat’ level..

(The IRA btw, often gave warnings)

The poster on #17 suggests otherwise

 

[KZNSeagull]

And every post is quoting me and contradicting me based on a misunderstanding of my original post ffs so thanks for that @hans kraay fan club - so of course I am responding to defend what I said.

I am not blasé about terrorism, I take umbrage at being accused so of being. I am just not into scaremongering, living my life in fear of ISIS or hyperbolic reactions to news stories that have the situation under control.

I did not say we are risk free - anywhere.

I said ISIS have a hope of hell getting into a Champions League stadium or any other Premier League stadia with all the extra security on top of the existing security infrastructure that UEFA will be ensuring is carried out properly in response to a terror alert.

Do you mean that they don't have a hope in hell? ie have no possibility of getting into a champions league stadium?