[Football] ISIS Threats - Do they Realise that with all the Security Forces adding EXTRA security a successful attack is highly unlikely -

[Zeberdi]

As you rightly suggest, they can cause all manner of disruption, and cost, just by suggesting a threat - even if they've no plans or intentions to act it out.


But - I think your tone is way too blasé aver the threat to football, in general. Security at Premier League grounds is pretty slack, in comparison to other major events.

Ok 14 people liking the fact you accuse me of being blase when you totally misunderstood my post. Not once did I say the security at football matches alone was enough to prevent a terror attack so an apology might be nice.

Nice

 

[Bozza]

And every post is quoting me and contradicting me based on a misunderstanding of my original post ffs so thanks for that @hans kraay fan club - so of course I am responding to defend what I said.

I am not blasé about terrorism, I take umbrage at being accused so of being. I am just not into scaremongering, living my life in fear of ISIS or hyperbolic reactions to news stories that have the situation under control.

I did not say we are risk free - anywhere.

I said ISIS have a hope of hell getting into a Champions League stadium or any other Premier League stadia with all the extra security on top of the existing security infrastructure that UEFA will be ensuring is carried out properly in response to a terror alert.

The title of this thread, along with your opening post, can easily be interpreted as "Those terrorists are in for one hell of a shock when they rock up and see how much security is in place at football stadiums"

You may not have meant that, but it's how I read it and, from the replies you have received, I suspect others do too.

A liberal society such as the one we all enjoy comes with compromises, one of which is the abundance of soft targets which can make it easy for bad guys to try to do bad stuff. Fortunately, as you say, our security services are pretty good at identifying and nullifying those threats, but they're never going to snuff them all out.

We all go about our business knowing that. As you say, life is too short to live in fear of what could happen in every scenario we find ourselves in.

 

[Zeberdi]

Do you mean that they don't have a hope in hell? ie have no possibility of getting into a champions league stadium?

No, I said, with all the additional security put in place because of these terror threats, on top of existing venue security infrastructure, an ISIS group of armed men or bombers have a hope in hell of causing a major terror attack in a Champions league Stadium (that includes the area around the stadium including railway stations etc).

Hans Kray Club took that to mean referring to football stadia in general (without that extra security) so therefore accused me of being blase about terror attacks/terrorism

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Well best to stay away from football matches would be my advice if you are going to be worried that someone is going to sneak through the gates with a bomb in their pocket because I couldn’t live my life with that level of anxiety - I’m not an explosives expert but pretty sure the amount of semtex/fuses etc required to cause mass casualties would be very easily detected because they would be somewhat larger than a flare. Of course a suicide bomber could carry enough explosives to blow up a corner of the South Stand and take out a few score of away supporters but do we really think a suicide bomber could get through the turnstiles without the stewards noticing he had on an enormous bulky overcoat? Suicide bombers also have links to an organising group, there is far more likely chatter would be picked up in the preparation of such an attack.

I would say, concerts still carry a greater risk than football stadium even without additional security.

Many of those deaths occurred as a result of a failure of emergency services and overall failure of security services but yes, a concert attack, the risk I referred to in my second post. This thread or rather at least my first post relates to my view with regard particularly to threats received regarding football matches, more specifically, the Champions league host stadia.


Sorry my post is so long but I am trying to cover every push back of my originally post that was misinderstood - and accused me of being blasé about terrorism - As for your point re. the venue and searches - that’s why I said EXTRA SECURITY put in place for the Champions League matches or any other Premier League stadiums in response to specific threats, on top of existing security measures will mitigate/foil most attempts/plans. Of course those security forces won’t just be in place inside the stadia, there will be at least a several mile radius of extra security - including rail stations, pubs/cafes, concourse etc

AGAIN - I am not saying there is no risk in general but there is also not enough likelihood of us or any of us, all being blown up in a terrorist attack at a football match with extra security in place to warrant a hyperbolic and scaremongering reaction to todays news.

There's no need to do that. You will end up having to clarify every point that anyone (and there are fahzands of us on NSC, to miss-quote Michael Cain) makes that doesn't quite reflect the original nuance of your original post or reply. Which even I have forgotten now.

I find the terrorism thing baffling, and appreciate that the risk of my being on the receiving end is low, and also admit to doing the typical shockingly bad risk assessment that we humans are famous for, when weighing up my options.

I think I'm in the same camp as you, I think (my interpretation of peoples' posts isn't always accurate) wrt not worrying too much about it, but as others have stated, these buggers need only to be lucky once.

And everyone's response to this in general or in particular will differ. Some will reach for black humour. Others will feel real fear. Others will barely give it a moment's thought. Low risk but with big consequences....that's why reactions can appear to be over-reactions. Risk assessment is a peculiar art.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Ok 14 people liking the fact you accuse me of being blase when you totally misunderstood my post. Not once did I say the security at football matches alone was enough to prevent a terror attack so an apology might be nice.

Nice

I don't recall exactly what the first lines of your OP said at the point that I replied to it - as you've edited it since I did so. But the gist was that the security of 'top flight stadia' was 'very high'.

That alone (from my own reasonably extensive experience of accessing 'top flight stadia' with very little in the way of effective security checks - in comparison with other events) felt complacent to me, and led to my reply. From your subsequent posts, its clear that isn't what you meant to convey - so apologies if I've caused you any disquiet. But people can only answer honestly, what they read / understand.

Basically, what he says \/\/\/

The title of this thread, along with your opening post, can easily be interpreted as "Those terrorists are in for one hell of a shock when they rock up and see how much security is in place at football stadiums"

You may not have meant that, but it's how I read it and, from the replies you have received, I suspect others do too.

 

[Zeberdi]

The title of this thread, along with your opening post, can easily be interpreted as "Those terrorists are in for one hell of a shock when they rock up and see how much security is in place at football stadiums"

You may not have meant that, but it's how I read it and, from the replies you have received, I suspect others do too.

Add that to the additional security by security forces, and ISIS (or any other terror group) has a hope in ell of carrying out a major terror attack at a football match imo. EDIT - ie with the extra security put in place in response to intelligence of possible threats.

I did say in addition to the extra security provided by police and security services they would have an hope in hell. The existence of security structure already in place helps because searches/scans can be more thoroughly carried out, we hacpve security cameras, controlled entrances and more stewards can be drafted in in the event eg Security Services receive intelligence that ‘a’ EPL stadium was under threat - I suspect the usual security measures at the Emirates will be exceptionally tight and carried a out to a T.

I except that wasn’t all put in the title but blase I am not.

A liberal society such as the one we all enjoy comes with compromises, one of which is the abundance of soft targets which can make it easy for bad guys to try to do bad stuff. Fortunately, as you say, our security services are pretty good at identifying and nullifying those threats, but they're never going to snuff them all out.

We all go about our business knowing that. As you say, life is too short to live in fear of what could happen in every scenario we find ourselves in.

 

[carlzeiss]

When was the last major terrorist attack on UK soil? (I don’t count half a dozen people being killed in a shopping centre or anywhere with a machete).

Dead shoppers or machete victims don't count , have you got nothing better do than spout bollocks like that ?

 

[Cotton Socks]

I 'think' that what some people are saying is that security is pretty lax at football stadiums. I went to a concert at the London Stadium and my bag had to be emptied and I was scanned with the hand held scanner. Went to Wembley for FA cup semi, bag emptied, full pat down and scanner. Youngest Jnr is too young to be searched but eldest Jnr got scanned and that was it, they found it highly amusing that I was searched so thoroughly and said I must look dodgy.
At the Amex they have a quick look in the part of my bag that's open and through I go. Eldest Jnr (sometimes) gets scanned & even when he has his keys on the inside of the top of his jacket, nothing beeps to say there's metal around his chest area.
If I were going to the Emirates tonight, I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't be a bit nervous about it. Wouldn't stop me going, not that I'd want to go, but I'd still be a bit on edge as simply things get missed, the security services aren't infallible, warnings can be dismissed as empty threats and it can all go horribly wrong.

 

[Zeberdi]

I don't recall exactly what the first lines of your OP said at the point that I replied to it - as you've edited it since I did so. But the gist was that the security of 'top flight stadia' was 'very high'.

Hans I only added what was clearly marked as an edit - the original post said exactly that marked in bold in my reply to @Bozza

The only gist was that the security of top flight stadia in addition to extra security forces in the face of specific threats was high. The infrastructure (ie scanning, searches, cameras, ticket regs, etc can all be tightened up - combined with extra security measure discussed by Sky News, yes, I think ISIS don’t realise what a difficult target a PL stadium would be.

Of course if a major ISIS attack, (initiated by overseas terrorists or linked to) came absolutely out of the blue, with no intelligence or chatter in the weeks or days leading up to it, and therefore no extra security measures had been put in place, I agree we’d be very vulnerable as would every other public major gathering place.

Often the ‘success‘ of major terror attacks come as a result of security failures - this isn’t the case here

Police in London, Madrid and Paris on alert after IS threat to Champions League venues

Police in Madrid and Paris have stepped up security before this week’s Champions League quarter-finals after an apparent threat from Islamic State

www.theguardian.com

 

[Goldstone1976]

Hans I only added what was clearly marked as an edit - the original post said exactly that marked in bold in my reply to @Bozza

The only gist was that the security of top flight stadia in addition to extra security forces in the face of specific threats was high. The infrastructure (ie scanning, searches, cameras, ticket regs, etc can all be tightened up - combined with extra security measure discussed by Sky News, yes, I think ISIS don’t realise what a difficult target a PL stadium would be.

Of course if a major ISIS attack, (initiated by overseas terrorists or linked to) came absolutely out of the blue, with no intelligence or chatter in the weeks or days leading up to it, and therefore no extra security measures had been put in place, I agree we’d be very vulnerable as would every other public major gathering place.

Often the ‘success‘ of major terror attacks come as a result of security failures - this isn’t the case here

Police in London, Madrid and Paris on alert after IS threat to Champions League venues

Police in Madrid and Paris have stepped up security before this week’s Champions League quarter-finals after an apparent threat from Islamic State

www.theguardian.com

I’m not sure I understand your point. Is it that ISIS might blow up a stadium?

 

[Zeberdi]

I 'think' that what some people are saying is that security is pretty lax at football stadiums. I went to a concert at the London Stadium and my bag had to be emptied and I was scanned with the hand held scanner. Went to Wembley for FA cup semi, bag emptied, full pat down and scanner. Youngest Jnr is too young to be searched but eldest Jnr got scanned and that was it, they found it highly amusing that I was searched so thoroughly and said I must look dodgy.
At the Amex they have a quick look in the part of my bag that's open and through I go. Eldest Jnr (sometimes) gets scanned & even when he has his keys on the inside of the top of his jacket, nothing beeps to say there's metal around his chest area.
If I were going to the Emirates tonight, I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't be a bit nervous about it. Wouldn't stop me going, not that I'd want to go, but I'd still be a bit on edge as simply things get missed, the security services aren't infallible, warnings can be dismissed as empty threats and it can all go horribly wrong.

Yes, it is but the infrastructure would obviously soon be tightened up if there was a terror alert as there is at the moment etc as part of the overall measures to safeguard the public…

I would not be surprised in the slightest if all Premier League Clubs will be getting ‘advisories’ in the light of these recent threats to tighten up their existing security - including Brighton and sent messages to their fans to be observant. ( I wonder how long it would take before fans started complaining that the queues were too long because everyone was being searched and scanned more vigilantly.)

As for being worried about the Emirates - look at the Guardian link above - the security measures being put in place are phenomenal

 

[Zeberdi]

I’m not sure I understand your point. Is it that ISIS might blow up a stadium?

I don’t know what the nature of the specific attack warnings are.

Do any of us?

Edit - My only point in the OP was that in the light of specific security threats, and with the security forces adding additional security to the existing security of Premier League/UEFA stadia, a successful major terroist attack was ver unlikely.

 

[Bozza]

I'm closing this thread because it's making me feel very uncomfortable on several different levels.

Let's all hope the good guys keep the bad guys at bay, and we can continue to go about our lives relatively worry-free.