[News] Is this for real?

[Knocky's Nose]

Are you saying that the poor shouldn't have children?

I think common sense might at least dictate the choice to keep having children when you're flat broke as something which isn't the brightest of ideas....

 

[Doonhamer7]

Ffs 5 kids by 25 my sympathy just left the room. You have what you can afford - we waited until we were past 30 until we had mortgage at payable level, saved up money then decided we could afford kids (and limited to two).

I hope Khaos grows up to have a great life but feel odds are already stacked against him

 

[Reddleman]

Saying "shouldn't have the kids" is easy. So what's the solution then, sterilisation for the poor? And what of the kids who are here already, are they advocating taking kids off poor parents and putting them in care until they either get rich or get adopted by a rich family?

I don’t know many people who would say don’t have any kids and certainly no one advocating sterilisation. My wife and I have worked really hard our whole life to earn what we currently do and I while I am grateful for that we made decisions based on our income. Like the vast majority of people we weighed up what we wanted in terms of kids versus what we could afford in terms of housing/cars/schools etc. If the removal of a £20 temporary uplift is going to cause such financial issues then having six children is not a sensible or responsible decision.

If people chose to have that many that’s their choice but I don’t want to hear them moaning about the financial impact when the rest of us all made choices to ensure we weren’t in that position.

 

[Baldseagull]

What does that have to do with not being able to pay for several children?

The article was not about her, she was an example, she didn't write in to the paper to moan, the paper sent reporters down to the job centre in Hull and asked people how it would affect them, and how they felt about it, they asked, she told them, same as the 62 year old gent who will be affected. Maybe he should have had 6 kids so he had a better chance of having some family to help take care of him, rather than relying on the state to allow him to eat when he lost his job?

 

[Baldseagull]

I don’t know many people who would say don’t have any kids and certainly no one advocating sterilisation. My wife and I have worked really hard our whole life to earn what we currently do and I while I am grateful for that we made decisions based on our income. Like the vast majority of people we weighed up what we wanted in terms of kids versus what we could afford in terms of housing/cars/schools etc. If the removal of a £20 temporary uplift is going to cause such financial issues then having six children is not a sensible or responsible decision.

If people chose to have that many that’s their choice but I don’t want to hear them moaning about the financial impact when the rest of us all made choices to ensure we weren’t in that position.

If you happened to be nosey enough to go down to the Job centre in Hull and ask people if and how they would be affected by the cut, and then they told you, would it still be fair to moan about them moaning?

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

I don’t know many people who would say don’t have any kids and certainly no one advocating sterilisation. My wife and I have worked really hard our whole life to earn what we currently do and I while I am grateful for that we made decisions based on our income. Like the vast majority of people we weighed up what we wanted in terms of kids versus what we could afford in terms of housing/cars/schools etc. If the removal of a £20 temporary uplift is going to cause such financial issues then having six children is not a sensible or responsible decision.

If people chose to have that many that’s their choice but I don’t want to hear them moaning about the financial impact when the rest of us all made choices to ensure we weren’t in that position.

The point is these children have been born, so who supports them?

The daft thing is if the kids were taken away from her it would cost the government (local authority) thousands per WEEK to care and provide for them, not an extra £20!

The system is broke, but what do you do, adopt the Chinese system or only allow the rich to breed prolifically?

 

[Knocky's Nose]

I hope Khaos grows up to have a great life but feel odds are already stacked against him

I think he's off on the wrong foot with that stupid bloody name to be fair..

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

The point is these children have been born, so who supports them?

The daft thing is if the kids were taken away from her it would cost the government (local authority) thousands per WEEK to care and provide for them, not an extra £20!

The system is broke, but what do you do, adopt the Chinese system or only allow the rich to breed prolifically?

What do you do?

There's those that can happily afford their large family, then bang their jobs disappear. You can't penalise them, but they are then rounded up with the serial scroungers.

How society reacts will always be based on their own upbringing and this is where, as other posters point out, leads to the children following the same path. I know one woman who even calls her benefits, wages. Never worked in her life and has no intention to. Again how society values this woman in the great scheme of things is dependant on her local surroundings. Many are deemed scum for wanting to better themselves by their families and neighbours. How do you deal with that?

Of course successive governments have caused a lot of this. The Tories put most of the north east on the sick, to massage the unemployment figures. Years later they targeted the same area calling them sick men of Britain and first introduced the health assessments there. But counter that with Burnley were they trialled the unemployed having to visit the job centre 3 times a week. I was up there at the time and they were complaining how unreasonable it and how could they possibly do that when they were doing their cash work.

So this is my point you can "flip flop" the argument all day and never get a resolution but one thing's for sure it is not the children's fault and all you can hope is through education you can show them there is another way.

You have to make work pay.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Maybe wrong but didn’t they introduce a cap on state benefits being paid up to a maximum of £26,000 with any child care element being restricted to two children maximum?

I like many others on here waited until my thirties so we could support them. Had two and steps have been taken to have no more!

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

What do you do?

There's those that can happily afford their large family, then bang their jobs disappear. You can't penalise them, but they are then rounded up with the serial scroungers.

How society reacts will always be based on their own upbringing and this is where, as other posters point out, leads to the children following the same path. I know one woman who even calls her benefits, wages. Never worked in her life and has no intention to. Again how society values this woman in the great scheme of things is dependant on her local surroundings. Many are deemed scum for wanting to better themselves by their families and neighbours. How do you deal with that?

Of course successive governments have caused a lot of this. The Tories put most of the north east on the sick, to massage the unemployment figures. Years later they targeted the same area calling them sick men of Britain and first introduced the health assessments there. But counter that with Burnley were they trialled the unemployed having to visit the job centre 3 times a week. I was up there at the time and they were complaining how unreasonable it and how could they possibly do that when they were doing their cash work.

So this is my point you can "flip flop" the argument all day and never get a resolution but one thing's for sure it is not the children's fault and all you can hope is through education you can show them there is another way.

You have to make work pay.

Is she even lazier on Friday afternoons?

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Maybe wrong but didn’t they introduce a cap on state benefits being paid up to a maximum of £26,000 with any child care element being restricted to two children maximum?

I like many others on here waited until my thirties so we could support them. Had two and steps have been taken to have no more!

 

[rigton70]

It's a bit of a double whammy as the price of food has gone up significantly in the last year as well. I would like to think the government is being naive, but honestly think they are inept and don't give a monkeys as it does not affect them.

You can still cook a good meal cheaply and that their lies the problem cook. Most under 35s can't cook. My missus works at Asda and the amount of pre packed meals that they buy their children is quite astounding and they moan they have no money.

 

[BN9 BHA]

https://youtu.be/J79jgQJ66fg

Reminded me of someone
A kid called Khaos FFS

 

[Baldseagull]

https://youtu.be/J79jgQJ66fg

Reminded me of someone
A kid called Khaos FFS

It wouldn't be my choice of names, but check out some of the names of Rees-Moggs half dozen kids, or the known half dozen of Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Seems upper class twats are just as likely to reproduce excessively, and come up with daft names for the kids. They say some names lead people to their future careers, nominal determinism, maybe she has really thought this through and has hopes for him to be a future Tory minister?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

"Is this for real?"

Open to see link to The Daily Star.

I was expecting Mailonline - So chapeau, well played.

Quite.

And it's fewer, not less. FFS.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It wouldn't be my choice of names, but check out some of the names of Rees-Moggs half dozen kids, or the known half dozen of Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Seems upper class twats are just as likely to reproduce excessively, and come up with daft names for the kids. They say some names lead people to their future careers, nominal determinism, maybe she has really thought this through and has hopes for him to be a future Tory minister?

It's called a bell curve for a reason. ***** to the left of us, ***** to the right, and the rest in the middle, looking on askance, and footing the *****' effing bills.

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

Maybe wrong but didn’t they introduce a cap on state benefits being paid up to a maximum of £26,000 with any child care element being restricted to two children maximum?

I like many others on here waited until my thirties so we could support them. Had two and steps have been taken to have no more!

You only have to walk round many towns in the U.K. to see many are not as sensible as you and the bottom line is it will always be the children that suffer and sadly often grow up to make the same mistakes as their parents.

As for the benefit cap, if this lady has any children who are disabled then the cap is removed.

 

[Wardy's twin]

She is primarly responsible, but is receiving financial assistance, which is about to be cut, against the advice of The Commons Work and Pensions Committee which said keeping the higher rate until April 2022 must be the "bare minimum". This is for all people receiving Universal Credit top up which is for those with children or a health condition, hopefully some of whom at least will be people that you feel are deserving of assistance, not just people who have more kids than you think is reasonable and with daft names, like Sixtus or Anselm.

Where have I mentioned kids names ? Where have I mentioned numbers ?

You might want to re-read what i said but to save you time I wrote Not sure anyone is saying that people should not have a family what they are saying (as you do) is that parent should be primary responsible for the bringing up of their children and that includes financing them.Not sure anyone is saying that people should not have a family what they are saying (as you do) is that parent should be primary responsible for the bringing up of their children and that includes financing them.

But as you raised the question ... I do think 6 is a lot of kids to bring up if you want to give them all care and attention and to be buy them all the bits modern life requires.

And to make it clear I do believe in the welfare state but also believe in the social contract that binds citizens in a society and that means putting into the pot and not just taking. Clearly there are exceptions where some cannot contribute e.g. severely ill but that should not be seen as the norm.
.

 

[sjamesb3466]

At the end of the day I think the quantity of kids is the big sticking point here. Six kids is a lot to support on a big wage but on benefits aged 25 you have to have some personal responsibility to ensure your kids are looked after financially. This isn't a class war about 'can only the rich have kids' but having 6 whilst finances are tight is borderline cruelty to the kids they are spawning. As others have mentioned, my wife and I have just had our second child and that will be it (elastic band/bricks at the ready) as we can't reasonably afford more. To continue to breed with access to free contraception is a choice and therefore you reap what you sow.

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

Where have I mentioned kids names ? Where have I mentioned numbers ?

You might want to re-read what i said but to save you time I wrote Not sure anyone is saying that people should not have a family what they are saying (as you do) is that parent should be primary responsible for the bringing up of their children and that includes financing them.Not sure anyone is saying that people should not have a family what they are saying (as you do) is that parent should be primary responsible for the bringing up of their children and that includes financing them.

But as you raised the question ... I do think 6 is a lot of kids to bring up if you want to give them all care and attention and to be buy them all the bits modern life requires.

And to make it clear I do believe in the welfare state but also believe in the social contract that binds citizens in a society and that means putting into the pot and not just taking. Clearly there are exceptions where some cannot contribute e.g. severely ill but that should not be seen as the norm.
.

Which brings you back to the problem - what do you do with those who don’t buy into the social contract idea?

Take their kids away? (Costs a lot of money)!

Sterilise them? (Moral minefield)!

It really is an almost impossible situation, isn’t it?