Is the problem bigger than the manager?

[Dave the OAP]

Evidently Ipswichs net spend this season is 10k, then there's Bournemouth and Charlton and Brentford- hardly splashing the cash. Now I'm not saying we have necessarily bought badly, but we are either identifying the wrong players for system we are trying to play, the manager is not getting the message about the system across, the players aren't buying into the system or can't understand it or the management can't motivate them.

Interestingly, I recently did the AMEX tour, and the tactics for the Rotherham game were still on the board- now I'm not going to comment on our set piece stuff, it seemed to be detailed in terms of who went where etc but I was amazed by what appeared to pass as the analysis of the away side - a Panini sticker style thing on Revell and err.... That appeared to be it ( and he scored!)

I also take exception to this ' remember where we came from' train of thought,I was there for all of it - it was a great struggle and a exemplary reaction to the situation by hundreds of fans, including Tony Bloom, Dick Knight et al, but if we don't do something positive soon, my worry is we may be heading back in that direction.

The problem was that Sami has come in with a plan and a style that he would have identified players that he needed to play that game. I personally do not believe that any of the players, apart from Bennett from villa, who were foisted on Sami were ones that he wanted.

This is the problem with a person specifically paid to recruit.

I think Sami is on to a hiding for nothing here and if I were him, I would say " pay me off and let someone else have a go" it's not working, the fans are not behind him and we are in free fall to the 3rd tier. Come the Christmas and new year games, we could be adrift!

Millwall is an absolutely MUST WIN GAME

 

[mwrpoole]

Well yes, but we haven't recruited good ones have we? We sold/released the good ones and immediately replaced them with inferior ones - who are costing as more!

You can't argue with the facts.

Last season we had the following in our squad:

Kuszack
Upson
Ward
Bridcutt
Lopez
Orlandi
Buckley
Andrews
Barnes
Ulloa

Some we sold, some we released & some chose other options, but that list contains the 'spine' of last years squad & IMO none have been replaced with players of at least equal ability.

 

[Working class pride]

You can't argue with the facts.

Last season we had the following in our squad:

Kuszack
Upson
Ward
Bridcutt
Lopez
Orlandi
Buckley
Andrews
Barnes
Ulloa

Some we sold, some we released & some chose other options, but that list contains the 'spine' of last years squad & IMO none have been replaced with players of at least equal ability.

Agreed but Bloom/the club also spent money to replace and the money that was spent was not spent well. So whilst you can look at who was sold, you must also look at who decided to buy the replacements who have in pretty much all cases, failed. There is no hiding place for the coach who decided the centre forward from Barnsley was remotely worth £500,000 and the wasted transfer budget goes on from there. However if I see this, then you can bet your last $ that Bloom has. I expect some of the scouts and those responsible for our buying are very worried about being asked into a meeting. However as its before Christmas, then I doubt that meeting will take place for a month. As for Hypia, he has not done well with what he has but we should remember he didnt buy the players. Some of us on NSC (even me who is very supportive of the club) questioned this. There has to be oversight for a compliance / risk management reason because large anounts of money are changing hands, but the manager must be able to stand or fall on his own players that he has bought.

 

[Guinness Boy]

And in a off the record chat with Andy Naylor he made it very clear the problem was Barber and Bloom and the way they insist on running the club.

You do know what "off the record" means, right?

However, the club definitely weren't happy with the article he wrote in the wake of Oscar's departure. I wonder who gets fed the inside info first these days, Andy or NSC's high ups?

 

[Questions]

I am not sure we can make a definitive statement about recruitment until we have a manager who can get the best of them. And is here long enough and has established his credentials sufficiently to get his own players in.

Left to their own devices the recruitment team brought in Agustein. And if we paid CoG anything approaching the reported figures serious questions need to be asked.

O'Grady .... 13k over 3 years......be back in a minute just have to find my calculator.....got it.........£ 2,028.000
Cannot even begin to hazard a guess at the wages we are paying for our loan players from premiership teams.

Is Sammi crap ? Looks like it.
Is he the only one to blame ? Definetly not.

Another explanation from the club as too how the recruitment of players and the link between Burke and whatever manager we have next needs defining not to the men concerned but to US. I need a proper scapegoat and I need it now.

 

[mwrpoole]

Agreed but Bloom/the club also spent money to replace and the money that was spent was not spent well. So whilst you can look at who was sold, you must also look at who decided to buy the replacements who have in pretty much all cases, failed. There is no hiding place for the coach who decided the centre forward from Barnsley was remotely worth £500,000 and the wasted transfer budget goes on from there. However if I see this, then you can bet your last $ that Bloom has. I expect some of the scouts and those responsible for our buying are very worried about being asked into a meeting. However as its before Christmas, then I doubt that meeting will take place for a month. As for Hypia, he has not done well with what he has but we should remember he didnt buy the players. Some of us on NSC (even me who is very supportive of the club) questioned this. There has to be oversight for a compliance / risk management reason because large anounts of money are changing hands, but the manager must be able to stand or fall on his own players that he has bought.

O'Grady intrigues me. His stats for last season are impressive, even more so when you consider he was playing in a poor Barnsley side. But I haven't seen anything, and I doubt anyone has, that he's capable of scoring a single goal let alone 15. He won't be the first or last player to change clubs and fail to reproduce previous form, but he simply looks far out of his depth. I can only think that Barnsley played in a certain way that suited him, and our scouting/coaching team didn't spot or notice that. Or perhaps they thought we'd play like that too, but either way he must be the stand out example of recruitment gone wrong.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

I'm sorry put it's Tony Bloom himself saying our playing budgets have gone up every year, so why would we spend more, to achieve less? It's also tony Bloom telling us that this squad is capable at getting in the play offs and that is what he expects. That isn't unrealistic fan expectations or pressure, that's what we are told

Tony Bloom only made a statement about the squad and about the signings we were going to make / had made because there was a fever pitch of angst from quite a few fans, worried about the lack of signings and had they remained calm, then i doubt Bloom would have felt the need to say anything.

Now the fact he made this statement and the team isn't performing as well as we would like is another cause of angst for these fans and the ststement is being used to claim anything from Bloom is lying to is / wanting to sell, etc to something is seriously wrong at the club, the board, the recruitment department, etc........

It's a season of transition under a new manager but there has been this rumbling of discontent from the start and this has undermined a lot of what the club has done and is trying to do imo.

 

[Hometownglory]

I'm staggered that Bloomy hasn't sacked this clueless idiot......that's what I'm worried about. "One Club, One Ambition" it's even more laughable as the weeks go on....

 

[Working class pride]

O'Grady intrigues me. His stats for last season are impressive, even more so when you consider he was playing in a poor Barnsley side. But I haven't seen anything, and I doubt anyone has, that he's capable of scoring a single goal let alone 15. He won't be the first or last player to change clubs and fail to reproduce previous form, but he simply looks far out of his depth. I can only think that Barnsley played in a certain way that suited him, and our scouting/coaching team didn't spot or notice that. Or perhaps they thought we'd play like that too, but either way he must be the stand out example of recruitment gone wrong.

Yes and Hypia didnt buy him so that was not SH's fault. Those who spent the budget did a dreadful job. No excuses can be made for what happened in the summer but equally SH has not done well with what he has. We should not be below Rotherham with this squad. The manager must buy the players with people reviewing the transfer to make sure all is proper, not the other way around.

 

[Mellotron]

Clearly bigger problems than just the manager. The last 3 seasons now have shown this.

 

[Icy Gull]

Interesting. You can never be quite sure it is not the sound of an axe being ground.

Shouldn't just dismiss it either, there does seem to be trouble at t' mill. This season is an absolute shambles so far and it's a worry to me that the club is just letting it rumble on. Has anyone seen anything in the last two performances to suggest that things are getting anything but worse?

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Bloom is getting far too easy a ride here. It's his team of people that have completely f'd up and he's the one whom continues to back them. The spotlight needs to start shining in his direction and he needs to make changes urgently or he'll be the person responsible for relegation.

So what do you want to do? - Force him out? - Stop him financing the millions that we are losing every season?

Just because we have had a poor start to one season and no transfer window to try to rectify anything isn't a reason to turn on and bite the hand that feeds you. It's not like they haven't realised we are struggling and failed to take any action but instead they have tried to improve things by signing Bent and Elliott Bennett on loanand these loan signings are now a cause for complaint because we arn't using all our original squad so they must be bad.

Has anyone thought that players like Bent will never sign for us permanently or that we, a second teir English football league club, can't afford to pay the types of wages someone like Bent would be on without help from the parent club? (just like Bridge) - how often are these types of player even available and their parent club willing to do us a deal?

I dispair, some people are just so ungrateful and can't spot a good thing when they have it and have to go looking for someone to fight against, to force out or to blame everything on (even when it's not their fault). We haven't become a big club overnight, we arguably overachieved for 2 seasons but this doesn't make it a right that we have to be challenging every season and anything less is a failure.

If only the naysayers would put half as much effort into getting behind the team on matchdays instead of doing what they normally do in looking for someone for them to try to force someone out of our club, then maybe the players may have performed better

 

[neilbard]

Buck stops at Mr Bloom for me!

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Clearly bigger problems than just the manager. The last 3 seasons now have shown this.

It took Gus over half a season in a lower division to transform his side and get them playing how he wanted effectively, Garcia inherited a squad that had already gelled and were proven to be inadequate to achieve promotion (either due to the squad, the playing style or both) hence the radical change with Sami. (more attacking football, something fans were calling for when Garcia was here and often games under Gus were called boring by fans too)

If he is to succeed, he needs time to get it right. The question is do the board think that he will be able to get it right? if they do, then he will stay (for now)

It's odd to me that Sami's record in his previous club has been used to beat him since he was announced, and fans saying that he isn't up to it rather than backing Sami and buying into his philosophy like they did with Gus, or at least giving it a chance but instead have chosen to try to undermine him, the players, the board, the club, etc instead. Would this have happened to Gus if he had a similar record at a previous managerial position rather than managing the club for the first time.

There has been disquiet since the summer, and that hardly makes a stable ground on which to build the foundations of a new squad and adopt a new style.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

We could sack Hyypia tomorrow but we would not recruit another opinionated, dynamic, even outspoken manager until this happens. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark, as Quentin Tarantino said.

I think Shakespeare got there first.

But if we had won just two (2) of the matches we have lost, we still would not have a very good win ration, but we would be mid-table. What would we be thinking then?

And that is a genuine question.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Buck stops at Mr Bloom for me!

Yeah so we should get rid of him then because we arn't going to go up because we can't accept the club being an also ran in the Championship (something we'd have welcomed only a couple of seasons ago)

Toys out of the pram at every occasion possible, whilst looking to destablise the club at every opportunity by calling for the heads of people like Barber, Burke, and anyone else that we don't fully know their role within the club but instead jump to conclusions about and because we don't look like our demand for PL football isn't being met, then panic and even have people (can't call them fans or supporters really, maybe call them observers?) comparing Bloom, who has spent over £100m+ on this club and is continuing to pump millions in to try to give the fans a competitive squad capable of challenging (although it hasn't worked so far this time) to Archer, looking to destroy the club and force the fans out, etc....

It's pathetic

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

It took Gus over half a season in a lower division to transform his side and get them playing how he wanted effectively, Garcia inherited a squad that had already gelled and were proven to be inadequate to achieve promotion (either due to the squad, the playing style or both) hence the radical change with Sami. (more attacking football, something fans were calling for when Garcia was here and often games under Gus were called boring by fans too)

If he is to succeed, he needs time to get it right. The question is do the board think that he will be able to get it right? if they do, then he will stay (for now)

It's odd to me that Sami's record in his previous club has been used to beat him since he was announced, and fans saying that he isn't up to it rather than backing Sami and buying into his philosophy like they did with Gus, or at least giving it a chance but instead have chosen to try to undermine him, the players, the board, the club, etc instead. Would this have happened to Gus if he had a similar record at a previous managerial position rather than managing the club for the first time.

There has been disquiet since the summer, and that hardly makes a stable ground on which to build the foundations of a new squad and adopt a new style.

There are some reasonable people on here, then.

But the one comment after Derby that worried me is that sami found it difficult to draw any positives from the game. EVEN IF there weren't any positives, a good motivational manager would be finding a positive spin to put on it for his workers/players somehow, even if it was just "Well, we've got that one out of the way, We can now go and hammer Millwall!" In my view, he needs to be unremittingly positive.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

You do know what "off the record" means, right?

However, the club definitely weren't happy with the article he wrote in the wake of Oscar's departure. I wonder who gets fed the inside info first these days, Andy or NSC's high ups?

I'm not sure if you're suggesting I've broken a confidence by posting that or that 'off the record' should be assumed to be a lie ?

Either way, it's strange that a manager who was successful and wasn't sacked decided to tell that to a local journalist knowing it would eventually become public. It is equally strange that Bloom then went public with a character assassination rather than either a 'no comment' or 'we wish Oscar well in his future'. The club / board also didn't cover themselves in glory with the Poyet issue. I'd suggest the problem lies more with the club and less so with the managers ..... although SH is absolute turd at football management.

 

[Steve.S]

It took Gus over half a season in a lower division to transform his side and get them playing how he wanted effectively, Garcia inherited a squad that had already gelled and were proven to be inadequate to achieve promotion (either due to the squad, the playing style or both) hence the radical change with Sami. (more attacking football, something fans were calling for when Garcia was here and often games under Gus were called boring by fans too)

If he is to succeed, he needs time to get it right. The question is do the board think that he will be able to get it right? if they do, then he will stay (for now)

It's odd to me that Sami's record in his previous club has been used to beat him since he was announced, and fans saying that he isn't up to it rather than backing Sami and buying into his philosophy like they did with Gus, or at least giving it a chance but instead have chosen to try to undermine him, the players, the board, the club, etc instead. Would this have happened to Gus if he had a similar record at a previous managerial position rather than managing the club for the first time.

There has been disquiet since the summer, and that hardly makes a stable ground on which to build the foundations of a new squad and adopt a new style.

It's not about buying into a philosophy, many of us can accept a change in style and more attacking football. Rome was not built in a day and unfortunately Sami has tried to be to progressive in a short time. He inherited a lot of the players and maybe the ones that came into the squad late were not the type of players he would have picked, he was not here long enough to formulate a plan with Burke and the type of players he would need.
So with all that in mind he should have kept with the old system and used cup games and then later in the season when we were safely mid table to try and bring his style in.
We also have to consider whether he is actually good enough to manage this club, mistakes can be made and maybe he is not up to the job. What we are left with now is a squad of players who's confidence is completely shot, and Sami has lost the fans. I think it's got to the point where a change will be inevitable as the club is in a spiral.

 

[Rookie]

It took Gus over half a season in a lower division to transform his side and get them playing how he wanted effectively, Garcia inherited a squad that had already gelled and were proven to be inadequate to achieve promotion (either due to the squad, the playing style or both) hence the radical change with Sami. (more attacking football, something fans were calling for when Garcia was here and often games under Gus were called boring by fans too)

If he is to succeed, he needs time to get it right. The question is do the board think that he will be able to get it right? if they do, then he will stay (for now)

It's odd to me that Sami's record in his previous club has been used to beat him since he was announced, and fans saying that he isn't up to it rather than backing Sami and buying into his philosophy like they did with Gus, or at least giving it a chance but instead have chosen to try to undermine him, the players, the board, the club, etc instead. Would this have happened to Gus if he had a similar record at a previous managerial position rather than managing the club for the first time.

There has been disquiet since the summer, and that hardly makes a stable ground on which to build the foundations of a new squad and adopt a new style.

Why is the fact his failure at his previous club is being held against him a surprise? It shows that, even with better players, he is a very limited manager. Did we really need a radical change to a style that was being played throughout the club and had achieved two play offs in two seasons?
Also, with regard to Gus, I remember quite a proportion of the Withdean crowd being anti what Gus was trying to do even though we were not that bad and were never in any danger after he took over, so its not exactly true everyone was onside from the beginning.