Is the problem bigger than the manager?

[Cloughie]

O'Grady intrigues me. His stats for last season are impressive, even more so when you consider he was playing in a poor Barnsley side. But I haven't seen anything, and I doubt anyone has, that he's capable of scoring a single goal let alone 15. He won't be the first or last player to change clubs and fail to reproduce previous form, but he simply looks far out of his depth. I can only think that Barnsley played in a certain way that suited him, and our scouting/coaching team didn't spot or notice that. Or perhaps they thought we'd play like that too, but either way he must be the stand out example of recruitment gone wrong.

When we initially signed COG I thought it an excellent, albeit pragmatic replacement for Ulloa. He's played up top on his own, is deceptively quick and has a respectable goal record for struggling teams. What became apparent early on is that he is very used to playing off of scraps and generally off of the cuff. This is all well and good in a team like Barnsely who do not have an expansive game which relies on individuals taking up specific positions on the pitch depending on who is in possession. If you're the focal pint of the attack and positioned incorrectly it effectively disables the rest of the team as their space is the inhabited by other players. COG didn't understand his role in the team well enough to bring the midfielders into the game in the last third. Is that his fault, or the fault of the coaching staff unable to give someone concise instruction about their role? Personally I believe it's a bit of both.

Functional #9 are like gold dust nowadays as their remit is no longer just to score goals. Finding one with relative divisional experience for £500,000 now seems justifiably unreasonable.

 

[bhawoddy]

The problem is that the buys in the summer were dreadful. That is the fault of those who identified the players. The other problem is the manager who is not getting enough out of what he has but its more than just the manager. Its not Bloom however, he has done more for this football club than anyone since and including Bamber.

If your requested to work within a certain budgets then only certain players will fall into these budgets.

Agree?

 

[Working class pride]

If your requested to work within a certain budgets then only certain players will fall into these budgets.

Agree?

Agreed and our budget was bigger than Rotherham's and we are below them in the table. We also had a bigger budget (relatively) than Burnley and Palace who got promoted.

 

[Bwian]

Why is the fact his failure at his previous club is being held against him a surprise? It shows that, even with better players, he is a very limited manager. Did we really need a radical change to a style that was being played throughout the club and had achieved two play offs in two seasons?
Also, with regard to Gus, I remember quite a proportion of the Withdean crowd being anti what Gus was trying to do even though we were not that bad and were never in any danger after he took over, so its not exactly true everyone was onside from the beginning.

His failure as a manager at Leverkusen (after Lewandowski left) should have seen his application (if he did apply) to be our manager go straight in the shredder after politely thanking him for his interest.

Yet another example of a very good player being a shit manager. No wonder so many look for their continued employment in football to be limited to media work.

Anyway Sami, thanks for trying but it just isn't working out so it's time for a dignified exit.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Buck stops at Mr Bloom for me!

The Mr bloom that has spent somewhere in the region of £200,000,000 whilst at Withdean and now at falmer?

So what if the buck stops with him, what do you want to happen? He leave, demand back all the money he has spent? How long, in minutes do you think this club will last then?

We fans want to be careful of getting what some people want!

We are having a bad run, we have a poor manager, we need something or someoneto steady the ship. The way bloom is being criticised on here, you would think he is the next ken bates!

 

[B.W.]

Sami, Burke, Jones - get rid of all 3, to gain a chance of staying up.

 

[bhawoddy]

Agreed and our budget was bigger than Rotherham's and we are below them in the table. We also had a bigger budget (relatively) than Burnley and Palace who got promoted.

Out of interest, where do the actual figures come from that show we had more funds available than both Burnley and palace, and would that be reliable info? Rotherham are riding the crest of a wave at present and that generally doesn't last so I'd expect them to fall at some point.
I certainly think there has been some poor decisions made with regards to personnel but,to a point, understand that the required quality needed to lift yourself Into the premier league comes at a cost. A much bigger cost that we are prepared to outlay, presently.

 

[London Irish]

While tactics are poor, is it just the manager that is the problem? Or is there a deeper problem here? Largest attendances in the league, big spending fans once in the ground, yet we have this real bargain basement attitude with a lot of things we do, on and off the field.

Has Bloom under estimated what it takes to be a chairman and support a Championship club, or is he simply taking FFP far too rigidly and seriously?

I don't really blame Barber, Burke etc, as I get the impression they are operating under very difficult circumstances.

Sums it up for me. Bloom spent big to take over the club from Dick Knight. He spent incredible amounts to provide the stadium. It's just odd to think he didn't realise he would have to keep spending to fulfill the ambitions and expectations that this would create.

It's put us in a curious limbo period now when I think many fans don't think replacing Sami will really make a critical difference - hence why there is no big Sami backlash at games.

Bloom's plan surely can only be delivered by a hyper talented manager who can dominate his environment and lift us through sheer force of personality, talent and will.

We had one of those but Bloom sacked him.

Baffling

 

[Working class pride]

Out of interest, where do the actual figures come from that show we had more funds available than both Burnley and palace, and would that be reliable info? Rotherham are riding the crest of a wave at present and that generally doesn't last so I'd expect them to fall at some point.
I certainly think there has been some poor decisions made with regards to personnel but,to a point, understand that the required quality needed to lift yourself Into the premier league comes at a cost. A much bigger cost that we are prepared to outlay, presently.

Burnley were tipped for relegation the year they were promoted and palace had just come out of another of their insolvencies. So yes I have inferred from those things that our budget was greater than their's both then and this year. But yes we dont have the figures but I dont think it is all to do with budget. Its a part of it but not all of it. We have not spent well. That's obvious and we therefore have to question the ability of our scouts, and director of football who bought the players. As much as we question Hypia for not making the most of what he was given. I also question a system where the manager doesnt buy the players. He should do but with compliance checks obviously given the money at stake. There is an element in football that is more than just money, and its there in most industries. its talent. Some people have it, others dont. Clough had it, Peter Taylor had it, no matter the bad way he left the club, Poyet had it as well. Sometimes with talent comes an edge. A good management structure understands its job is to get the best out of the talented, not the other way around. That is the worry with the curent management structure, are the managers more important than the talented? I dont know, but results show that it sure isnt working.

 

[rouseytastic]

Buck stops at Mr Bloom for me!

Seconded!

 

[GT49er]

Burnley were tipped for relegation the year they were promoted and palace had just come out of another of their insolvencies. So yes I have inferred from those things that our budget was greater than their's both then and this year. But yes we dont have the figures but I dont think it is all to do with budget. Its a part of it but not all of it. We have not spent well. That's obvious and we therefore have to question the ability of our scouts, and director of football who bought the players. As much as we question Hypia for not making the most of what he was given. I also question a system where the manager doesnt buy the players. He should do but with compliance checks obviously given the money at stake. There is an element in football that is more than just money, and its there in most industries. its talent. Some people have it, others dont. Clough had it, Peter Taylor had it, no matter the bad way he left the club, Poyet had it as well. Sometimes with talent comes an edge. A good management structure understands its job is to get the best out of the talented, not the other way around. That is the worry with the curent management structure, are the managers more important than the talented? I dont know, but results show that it sure isnt working.

Agree with most of that, but please don't hold up Clough's name as a good manager of Brighton. He was sh1te here - he left leaving a team with all the confidence knocked out of them, almost too frightened to step out on to the pitch, let alone play football.

 

[Mike Small]

Why is Hyypia still our manager at this very moment? Shame on you Tony Bloom. Your ineptness/ delusion/ stubbornness, call it whatever is ruining everything we have achieved. 200m or not appear completely out of your depth with grads to the management position and that goes for all your cronies too.

 

[Bwian]

The Mr bloom that has spent somewhere in the region of £200,000,000 whilst at Withdean and now at falmer?

So what if the buck stops with him, what do you want to happen? He leave, demand back all the money he has spent? How long, in minutes do you think this club will last then?

We fans want to be careful of getting what some people want!

We are having a bad run, we have a poor manager, we need something or someoneto steady the ship. The way bloom is being criticised on here, you would think he is the next ken bates!

Let's be honest here, Tony Bloom would not invest that kind of money unless he thought that at some point he'd get it all back-or at least most of it. At no point has he said the stadium is a 'gift'. Any debts will be converted into shares. He's talking of a hotel to be convenient for the Uni(s) and visiting supporters. That's an attractive package for some Oligarch or Arab Billionaire to buy into in the future.

We're all grateful to TB but if he pulls the plug and bails out we'll simply do what other clubs do-go into administration, possibly twice and then find ourselves in the Premier League. After all, we are PL Ready already. However, that all means diddly squat if we're struggling in League 1 for a few seasons. At the very least TB needs to take some kind of action to protect his investment.

I could be wrong and TB is indeed an altruistic owner...

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Why is the fact his failure at his previous club is being held against him a surprise? It shows that, even with better players, he is a very limited manager. Did we really need a radical change to a style that was being played throughout the club and had achieved two play offs in two seasons?
Also, with regard to Gus, I remember quite a proportion of the Withdean crowd being anti what Gus was trying to do even though we were not that bad and were never in any danger after he took over, so its not exactly true everyone was onside from the beginning.

Unless you buy in a successful manager from another club, how many out of work managers are going to have a good end run of results from their previous club?

He took them to a CL spot in his first season and was still near the top of the table when given the push - since when has the 2nd teir of English football been viewed as superior to top flight Bundesliga football?

This record in Germany:
Hyypiä's first training session as the sole head coach happened on 24 June 2013. Bayer Leverkusen ended the 2013-2014 season in fourth place behind Bayern Munich, Borussia Dortmund and Schalke 04. On 5 April 2014, Hyypiä was sacked by Bayer Leverkusen with immediate effect.

It's laughable that this job history is being cherry picked to make a case against him from the moment he arrived (just focusing in on the poor run at the end) rather than what he actually achieved during his entire tenure and what he could potentially achieve here and the anti Hyypia brigade seem to cast his spell there as a handful of games in sole charge in which he failed miserably (which he didn't)

 

[Guy Fawkes]

His failure as a manager at Leverkusen (after Lewandowski left) should have seen his application (if he did apply) to be our manager go straight in the shredder after politely thanking him for his interest.

Yet another example of a very good player being a shit manager. No wonder so many look for their continued employment in football to be limited to media work.

Anyway Sami, thanks for trying but it just isn't working out so it's time for a dignified exit.

How many managers that applied for the job here didn't have a period of failure on their CV? if they have ever been sacked then they will have. Most the Premier League and other top European managers will havce failed at at least one club so would you dismiss their applications for the Albion job on that basis?

 

[Dave the OAP]

Let's be honest here, Tony Bloom would not invest that kind of money unless he thought that at some point he'd get it all back-or at least most of it. At no point has he said the stadium is a 'gift'. Any debts will be converted into shares. He's talking of a hotel to be convenient for the Uni(s) and visiting supporters. That's an attractive package for some Oligarch or Arab Billionaire to buy into in the future.

We're all grateful to TB but if he pulls the plug and bails out we'll simply do what other clubs do-go into administration, possibly twice and then find ourselves in the Premier League. After all, we are PL Ready already. However, that all means diddly squat if we're struggling in League 1 for a few seasons. At the very least TB needs to take some kind of action to protect his investment.

I could be wrong and TB is indeed an altruistic owner...

So in your opinion, everything he has said about how the stadium and training facility was financed by HIM alone and his continuous affirmation that he doesn't want the money back, backed up by people is lying to the fans? He is a liar basically?

 

[Mackenzie]

Unless you buy in a successful manager from another club, how many out of work managers are going to have a good end run of results from their previous club?

He took them to a CL spot in his first season and was still near the top of the table when given the push - since when has the 2nd teir of English football been viewed as superior to top flight Bundesliga football?

This record in Germany:
Hyypiä's first training session as the sole head coach happened on 24 June 2013. Bayer Leverkusen ended the 2013-2014 season in fourth place behind Bayern Munich, Borussia Dortmund and Schalke 04. On 5 April 2014, Hyypiä was sacked by Bayer Leverkusen with immediate effect.

It's laughable that this job history is being cherry picked to make a case against him from the moment he arrived (just focusing in on the poor run at the end) rather than what he actually achieved during his entire tenure and what he could potentially achieve here and the anti Hyypia brigade seem to cast his spell there as a handful of games in sole charge in which he failed miserably (which he didn't)

It has been suggested that Hyypia struggled when his assistant left, which poses the question: was it Hyypia's talent or the assistants which got Leverkusen up the BL table?

He certainly hasn't impressed here, or in sole charge of Leverkusen.

 

[aolstudios]

Sums it up for me. Bloom spent big to take over the club from Dick Knight. He spent incredible amounts to provide the stadium. It's just odd to think he didn't realise he would have to keep spending to fulfill the ambitions and expectations that this would create.

It's put us in a curious limbo period now when I think many fans don't think replacing Sami will really make a critical difference - hence why there is no big Sami backlash at games.

Bloom's plan surely can only be delivered by a hyper talented manager who can dominate his environment and lift us through sheer force of personality, talent and will.

We had one of those but Bloom sacked him.

Baffling

This. All of it

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Let's be honest here, Tony Bloom would not invest that kind of money unless he thought that at some point he'd get it all back-or at least most of it. At no point has he said the stadium is a 'gift'. Any debts will be converted into shares. He's talking of a hotel to be convenient for the Uni(s) and visiting supporters. That's an attractive package for some Oligarch or Arab Billionaire to buy into in the future.

We're all grateful to TB but if he pulls the plug and bails out we'll simply do what other clubs do-go into administration, possibly twice and then find ourselves in the Premier League. After all, we are PL Ready already. However, that all means diddly squat if we're struggling in League 1 for a few seasons. At the very least TB needs to take some kind of action to protect his investment.

I could be wrong and TB is indeed an altruistic owner...

You make it sound like TB sees BHA merely as an investment. I think that is both unfair and incorrect. Nobody would criticise TB's ability to make money. But almost no clubs make money these days. And he's a lifelong fan. There is a very big space between altruism (by which I take it you mean giving money away) and cold investment. Sensible stewardship of an important responsibility would sum up my interpretation of TB's attitude. If it makes decent money too, all well and good, of course.

As for folk on here who 'blame' TB, what is the logical consequence of this blame? Hound him out? Hmm . . . .

 

[aolstudios]

You make it sound like TB sees BHA merely as an investment. I think that is both unfair and incorrect. Nobody would criticise TB's ability to make money. But almost no clubs make money these days. And he's a lifelong fan. There is a very big space between altruism (by which I take it you mean giving money away) and cold investment. Sensible stewardship of an important responsibility would sum up my interpretation of TB's attitude. If it makes decent money too, all well and good, of course.

As for folk on here who 'blame' TB, what is the logical consequence of this blame? Hound him out? Hmm . . . .

So, for people to suggest it's possible TB may have made some wrong decisions leads logically to 'hounding him out'? Really?