[Albion] Is Mr Potter, Chris Hughton II...

[One Love]

First.. I think Brighton is one of the more tactically flexible teams in the league. There's been lots of occasions when pretty much the entire playing style has been swapped for something else. For instance most times DW is playing, the team plays a lot more direct (which has both advantages and disadvantages). Sometimes the intention is clearly to play through the wings and other times the plan seems to be to combine centrally.

But ultimately there is not too much options to do the really wild stuff (like when BDB played almost as a left winger against Liverpool last season and they really struggled with just ignoring their pressure and make the game an aerial battle between BDB and TAA).

There is 18 outfield players (and this includes Evan Ferguson) in the squad with any PL experience. Some player types are missing, in some other roles there's no decent options. If Leandro Trossard has a bad day or if you want two Leandro Trossard on the pitch... too bad, there is no option. Want a strong target player up top? Doesnt exist. Welbeck is doing a good impression of it sometimes but he is better without the ball than with it. Ferguson is not ready and appears to be more of a poacher.

Want a pacy central defender to deal with counter attacks? One year ago there was three - BDB, White and Webster. None of them are available. Veltman, Duffy and Dunk are all good defenders, but slow ones. Trying Cucurella in the role has not been too succesful most of the times.

If you want to see Brighton be less predictable and more varied, you have to give GP/CH/Steve Bruce/your mum/whoever coaching more options. Dont need gigantic squad like (at times) last year but two-three players with a different set of abilities would change a lot.

I agree with most of your post.

However, even though in general I feel GP is doing a good job with the squad provided, he isn't when you look at attacking in the final third. It was brought up by Shearer on MOTD at the weekend but I've been banging on about this for ages.

Recruitment in these areas has obviously been poor but I would expect our attacking players to have progressed over the period of GP's tenure and I think we all know that it has not, in fact they have regressed.

It looks as though GP has been coaching the squad a certain way which has been bearing fruit but that attacking is neglected. Maybe GP has been thinking that the final third will look after itself.

Shooting has become ridiculous, the players have to take some personal responsibility for this. We all know it's possible to improve as a player with shooting, you only have to look at what Ronaldo has achieved with thousands of hours on the training ground and it is the same at all levels. Don't get me started on direct free kicks outside the box. When was the last time one of our players came even close to scoring.

Trossard is an example of this regression. He spends time with the Belgian squad over the summer, improves and is on fire for the beginning of the season and then what's happened? Is it a coaching problem?

 

[Justice]

id like to moan, we have lost momentum lately, however i think we will get a few more points this season. Another few years we might become genuine top 10 contenders - currently dont think we have the budget

Wolves spend that little bit extra on quality, not millions more just enough to compete for a whole season and finish in the top ten. Our recruitment seems a bit Championship at the moment. I can’t see why we can’t compete with the likes of Wolves.

 

[rogersix]

The more astute would have noticed the title ISN'T:-

Is Mr Potter JUST Chris Hughton II.

Being Hughton II is far from a criticism and says considerably more about the club's top table than it does whomever is the manager in question.

Sadly all that got lost in the tantrums, misrepresentation, hissfits and swooning to the floor.

bs stat, you're were stirring the pot and you know it

 

[rogersix]

Wolves spend that little bit extra on quality, not millions more just enough to compete for a whole season and finish in the top ten. Our recruitment seems a bit Championship at the moment. I can’t see why we can’t compete with the likes of Wolves.

you're asking for a chinese consortium?

 

[NooBHA]

No. Right now Brighton is a development side, developing talents for our future in every way. Doing that whilst being comfortably mid table is a heck of an achievement, and Hughton didn't show signs that he could do that. Instead CH had a team of battle hardened experienced pros that kept us up for a couple of seasons, but they're was always the worry about what would happen when they were past their prime.

The Brighton right now is a totally different beast to the Brighton under Hughton, one that has many more opportunities for future improvement and upwards trajectories, and we should recognise that

Yes but is GP about to be featured on a Royal Mail Stamp ? - No - CH on the other hand ....................

 

[Swansman]

I agree with this. My concern though is that it will never all come together at the same time.
First half of this season we had Bissouma looking like the £60m player I think he could become. Trossard looking like he could slot into a CL side. The back line settled with 2 top 10 full backs. The midfield fluid and dynamic. What was (still) missing was a true EPL level striker. My concern is that if/when we find one it will coincide with one or all of Bissouma, Trossard, Lamptey, Cucu, no longer being at the club and those positions become the new problem.

Huge opportunity missed this season.

That is always the problem. If we look at Ajax and Sporting Lissabon, probably the two best talent producers in Europe, they would have both challenged for Champions League titles year after year if they were allowed to keep all their players.

Its a slow and difficult journey. Cant sell too many players at the same time, and the next time you buy a player you think will turn top class in a couple of years, he'll preferably be on a higher starting point than the previous one. When Trossard is sold, you want to get a player who is already quite good and with the potential of getting better than Tross ever could. Similar for everyone else obviously. Very few clubs have the luxuary of never having problems in any position... all you can try to do is to have as few and less severe problems as possible.

 

[Seasider78]

First.. I think Brighton is one of the more tactically flexible teams in the league. There's been lots of occasions when pretty much the entire playing style has been swapped for something else. For instance most times DW is playing, the team plays a lot more direct (which has both advantages and disadvantages). Sometimes the intention is clearly to play through the wings and other times the plan seems to be to combine centrally.

But ultimately there is not too much options to do the really wild stuff (like when BDB played almost as a left winger against Liverpool last season and they really struggled with just ignoring their pressure and make the game an aerial battle between BDB and TAA).

There is 18 outfield players (and this includes Evan Ferguson) in the squad with any PL experience. Some player types are missing, in some other roles there's no decent options. If Leandro Trossard has a bad day or if you want two Leandro Trossard on the pitch... too bad, there is no option. Want a strong target player up top? Doesnt exist. Welbeck is doing a good impression of it sometimes but he is better without the ball than with it. Ferguson is not ready and appears to be more of a poacher.

Want a pacy central defender to deal with counter attacks? One year ago there was three - BDB, White and Webster. None of them are available. Veltman, Duffy and Dunk are all good defenders, but slow ones. Trying Cucurella in the role has not been too succesful most of the times.

If you want to see Brighton be less predictable and more varied, you have to give GP/CH/Steve Bruce/your mum/whoever coaching more options. Dont need gigantic squad like (at times) last year but two-three players with a different set of abilities would change a lot.

A lot of truth in this and we are in the perfect storm of all of our best players being either injured, returning from injury or out of form limiting Potters choices even further. The bench on Saturday is as weak as we have seen it and shows we have lost depth.

A question for you as someone who has followed Potter is do you feel he would be kicking up a stink about the lack of options behind the scenes? In public at least he always backs the clubs decisions (I am ok with the strikers we have, no issue with Burn leaving etc) but am guessing he has ambition so is he likely to push the club to back him or say he will leave?

 

[Swansman]

A lot of truth in this and we are in the perfect storm of all of our best players being either injured, returning from injury or out of form limiting Potters choices even further. The bench on Saturday is as weak as we have seen it and shows we have lost depth.

A question for you as someone who has followed Potter is do you feel he would be kicking up a stink about the lack of options behind the scenes? In public at least he always backs the clubs decisions (I am ok with the strikers we have, no issue with Burn leaving etc) but am guessing he has ambition so is he likely to push the club to back him or say he will leave?

Hard to tell... in Östersund he was basically manager, coach, director of football, scout and could get whatever he wanted as long as the chairman could find the money for it. In Swansea it was the exact opposite, the club made a lot of promises but it was very quickly discovered that they wanted to sell everyone at any price.

During deadline day in the first transfer window in Swansea, GP was supposed to have a press conference ahead of a game but Billy was in charge. The official explanation was that GP was sick, but there were rumours that he was absolutely furious with the board and thought about resigning. But he never had any complaints publicly.

The only time I've seen him criticise transfer policy in public was after the January transfer window in his Swansea season. The board tried to sell Daniel James for £1.5m, chairman Huw Jenkins sacrificed his job through blocking the move and over the next couple of press conferences GP really struggled to hide that he thought the board was full of shit.

Not seen anything like that in Brighton but I think obviously he feels a little bit frustrated about the struggle to find one or two classy attacking players. However I think Tony Bloom might share those feelings and that it is far from the situation in Swansea where the owners only were trying to strip the club of its assets. He is probably a lot more honest about these things behind the scenes but I struggle to imagine he is demanding things, think he is fully aware that Tony Bloom simply doesnt have the same resources as Saudi Arabia, UAE or energy-oligarchs and accepting it is a difficult reality.

 

[Stat Brother]

bs stat, you're were stirring the pot and you know it

You are wrong.

It's an extension of 'come on this is as good as it gets, now's not the time for the usual pragmatic approach' from 3 months ago.

When that usual approach kicked in during the window, I became a little more 'oh maybe this is as good as it gets'. (tone is rather important but difficult to write! )

I've noted other posters also dancing around it.
Then on Saturday one poster just flat out said the same.

Hence running it up the flagpole now.

The fact that we're 2 days later, 150+ replies, plenty of civilized debate, would suggest if I were stirring the pot I've failed.

I hold Mr Hughton in the highest regard.
I hold GPott in high regard.

One comes at football management from one direction.
The other couldn't be more different...


And yet...

Their EPL records are identical.
As sadly are their failings.

Hence the thread.


I guess I could have spared the delicate flowers and written 'With Pep in charge would he have become Hughton II', but I'm sure you'll agree that's w**k and completely pointless.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

... but with a nicer winter coat?

Obviously on many many levels that's a compliment, but sadly managing the Albion in the Premier League isn't one of them.


The similarities are there for all to see.
Easily found out, Intransigent when done so, unable to win at home, unable to create goals from around the squad, incredibly 'nice' to all comers.

When he is replaced I'm guessing Hughton III will be waiting in the wings.

Which in turn suggests this probably isn't his fault and much like me with blue eyed brunettes - the Albion has a 'type'.





Obviously this is only a thread for those of us who are as familiar with Mr Hughton's work as they are with Mr Potter's.

Uncomparable.

 

[Weststander]

you're asking for a chinese consortium?

Is that a dish with noodles?

 

[Stat Brother]

bs stat, you're were stirring the pot and you know it

Oh but the Lallana thread - hmmmm

 

[Seasider78]

Hard to tell... in Östersund he was basically manager, coach, director of football, scout and could get whatever he wanted as long as the chairman could find the money for it. In Swansea it was the exact opposite, the club made a lot of promises but it was very quickly discovered that they wanted to sell everyone at any price.

During deadline day in the first transfer window in Swansea, GP was supposed to have a press conference ahead of a game but Billy was in charge. The official explanation was that GP was sick, but there were rumours that he was absolutely furious with the board and thought about resigning. But he never had any complaints publicly.

The only time I've seen him criticise transfer policy in public was after the January transfer window in his Swansea season. The board tried to sell Daniel James for £1.5m, chairman Huw Jenkins sacrificed his job through blocking the move and over the next couple of press conferences GP really struggled to hide that he thought the board was full of shit.

Not seen anything like that in Brighton but I think obviously he feels a little bit frustrated about the struggle to find one or two classy attacking players. However I think Tony Bloom might share those feelings and that it is far from the situation in Swansea where the owners only were trying to strip the club of its assets. He is probably a lot more honest about these things behind the scenes but I struggle to imagine he is demanding things, think he is fully aware that Tony Bloom simply doesnt have the same resources as Saudi Arabia, UAE or energy-oligarchs and accepting it is a difficult reality.

Interesting thanks for sharing and cannot see a Swansea type situation emerging as Barber and Blook strike me as pretty open and honest and Potter frequently talks about how much support he gets. It feels like a big window for Potter and the club at least this time around we have one attacking addition signed up already!

Maybe a Biss moving on will fund some additional quality for him to work with up top. Also very much looking forward to what Sarmiento and Khadra could add to the squad as options.

If Potter goes into another season without more quality attacking options i could understand why he would want to star thinking about trying his luck elsewhere as always the danger you are standing still in your career. He has also shown in the first half of the season when he has options he can set us up to be far more competitive rather than patching up the last scraps from your squad to get a competitive 11 on the pitch

 

[The Fits]

If Potter goes into another season without more quality attacking options i could understand why he would want to star thinking about trying his luck elsewhere as always the danger you are standing still in your career. He has also shown in the first half of the season when he has options he can set us up to be far more competitive rather than patching up the last scraps from your squad to get a competitive 11 on the pitch

Yup. What’s more likely is that Potter will be poached than sacked and that’s obviously increasingly likely if, next season, he doesn’t have the kind of players he wants/needs.
He’s clearly a very pragmatic man and will understand the sales of White and Burn that both had to happen for different reasons. What is certain is that White was a player who totally fitted Potters style and Burn was one of his most trusted generals. The argument ‘do something different then’ doesn’t stick because there’s simply not the options. I’m certain if he felt Roberts was up to it he would’ve played him.
If I was him I’d probably be thinking ‘you keep spunking millions on players you immediately loan out without addressing our current obvious needs’. And no matter how patient and pragmatic he may be he will eventually think the grass is greener. Whether we’d be worse off though...
It was obvious last season we lacked a clinical striker and it’s just as obvious this season we are short in defence and could probably do with competition for Sanchez (something I’ve said all along and was continually scoffed at, even though I think many are now realising decent competition in goal is probably a good thing- just as it would’ve been in Ryan’s time). I’m not sure that is Potters fault and I certainly don’t think Hughton would be doing even better, even if I think Hughtons critics here are being unfair.

 

[chaileyjem]

If I was him I’d probably be thinking ‘you keep spunking millions on players you immediately loan out without addressing our current obvious needs’. .

Do you mean players like Moder, MacAllister, Alzate, White, Sanchez, Caicedo - all players Potter has addressed his current needs by giving them their debuts and then played them regularly. (Caicedo- not just yet)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[The Fits]

Do you mean players like Moder, MacAllister, Alzate, White, Sanchez, Caicedo - all players Potter has addressed his current needs by giving them their debuts and then played them regularly. (Caicedo- not just yet)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not entirely, among other things a large amount of those weren’t signed under his watch. But, if you add to them the signings in Jan, plus Mitoma and doubtless others we are yet to see on Sussex soil and said ‘swap five of them for a relatively experienced ball playing CB’ he might bite your hand off.

 

[Justice]

Not entirely, among other things a large amount of those weren’t signed under his watch. But, if you add to them the signings in Jan, plus Mitoma and doubtless others we are yet to see on Sussex soil and said ‘swap five of them for a relatively experienced ball playing CB’ he might bite your hand off.

Buying players to get Union up the table If they get the European dream will the loans even come back or was Undav the trade off? Dante looks a technically better player and more suited to the PL as his all round play stats are superior to Undav’s and has some pace on him.

 

[chaileyjem]

Not entirely, among other things a large amount of those weren’t signed under his watch. But, if you add to them the signings in Jan, plus Mitoma and doubtless others we are yet to see on Sussex soil and said ‘swap five of them for a relatively experienced ball playing CB’ he might bite your hand off.

Five !! Because you think the club has made a mistake selling Burn or because its frustrating that Webster is injured or even because Maupay misses a few chances doesn’t make therefore make our entire development of players through loans or the academy in recent years - by any stretch a success under Potter - a write off does it. And the idea that Potter would cite that as a reason for leaving is a bit of a stretch …

 

[chaileyjem]

Buying players to get Union up the table If they get the European dream will the loans even come back or was Undav the trade off? Dante looks a technically better player and more suited to the PL as his all round play stats are superior to Undav’s and has some pace on him.

So we’ve loaned some players to USG - but it’s all a conspiracy to help them not us, either way they’re not going to play for us any way and actually we shouldn’t have signed one of them in the first place because the other bloke looks better - on paper. And the club will be blissfully unaware of this fact. Ok fair play.

 

[The Fits]

Five !! Because you think the club has made a mistake selling Burn or because its frustrating that Webster is injured or even because Maupay misses a few chances doesn’t make therefore make our entire development of players through loans or the academy in recent years - by any stretch a success under Potter - a write off does it. And the idea that Potter would cite that as a reason for leaving is a bit of a stretch …

Nope. Not saying that at all. I’ve not even mentioned our academy. And obviously I’m not including the likes of White and Sanchez who were signed for free and way before Potter was here.
You’re joining dots and making a pretty weird picture from what I’ve written.