Is Messi the best you've seen?

[Lyndhurst 14]

For my money Messi is the best of the current crop. Going to see him play at the end of the month when Argentina play a friendly against Ecuador in New York.

 

[Prince Monolulu]

Agree with much of this. Messi is so easy on the eye, Ronaldo more 'robotic'.

Would pay so much more to watch Messi, the game appears ridiculously easy which to me defines his class and superiority.

 

[Seagull58]

We are currently watching the best 2 players ever.

Its not even close, to those players of the past.

I do think Ronaldo is a more rounded footballer than Messi, but Messi is still no1.

They are streets ahead of the rest.

I don't know how you can say that. Pele won 3 world cups and did the most outrageously skilful things, as well as scoring well over 1,000 goals. He was an amazing team player, whilst Maradona won the '86 World Cup virtually single handed. Messi has not yet earnt the right to be compared with those two.

 

[Prince Monolulu]

 

[RexCathedra]

In baseball, Bill James introduced the useful distinction between peak value, and career value.

Some players have ridiculously high peaks, but don't, or can't, last.
Some players are just shy of superhuman, but stay there year after year.

Both, is pretty damned rare.

I was impressed in his day by Thierry Henry, but was he durable enough for immortals status?
And his France national teams weren't all that and a bag of crisps.
He'd been coasting since the NY move.
IMHO, anyways.

 

[Lower West Stander]

As others on here have said, Messi has never played for anything other than an outstanding team in one country and built around him.

A superb player no doubt, but George Best is my all time favourite. He was the most complete footballer I've ever seen. Two footed, good header, great tackler, fantastic work rate (in his prime granted), great pace and afforded nothing like the protection players get these days.

Unlike Barca, Man U either couldn't or didn't know how to support him. As the quote goes "where did it all go wrong?"

 

[Reinelt12]

In my lifetime, without question - Zinedine Zidane

Produced on the biggest stage in the biggest matches (World Cup and European Championship) + Club Level (Champions League, Ligue 1, Serie A and La Liga) - Phenomenal in the air, blessed with incredible skill/vision and an absolute joy to watch.

And Newcastle turned him down for £1.2 million!!!

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

I haven't had the chance to read all the comments but I would be amazed if someone hasn't mentioned the ridiculous "but he hasn't won the world cup" nonsense.

That's a team tournament. It is no proof of how good the individual is.

By that logic the best player ever could never be from, lets say, Libya or Andorra because they almost certainly won't win the world cup with their nation.

 

[Seagull58]

I think so, yes.

Those that say Messi hasn't done it at international level, I have a similar outlook on this to [MENTION=17377]leigull[/MENTION]. He has scored 45 goals in 96 games for the argies, which is a similar strike rate to Ronaldo for Portugal (52 in 118). Argies are indeed better than portugal of course, but it was the Messi and Mascherano show at the world cup. Meanwhile, Ronaldo didn't even show up? It's also worth bearing in mind that Argentina's opposition is probably stronger than Portugals as the big boys over there tend to play each other quite regularly in the Copa America etc..

Someone mentioned that Ronaldo has the most assists this season so far. That isn't true, Messi has 14 compared to Ronaldos 11. Messi has also scored 2 more goals so far in La Liga (32 to 30).

I actually think that Ronaldo is more reliant on his team mates than Messi is. Ronaldo doesn't really get too involved in the game, he sits out wide and waits for the ball to come to him. With Messi, the whole game goes through him, he plays centrally and is the heartbeat of the team. I've rarely seen Ronaldo put in a performance like Messi did last night, an absolute class above the rest of the players on the pitch and he didn't even have the best of games by his standards.

In my opinion, he is the best player to have ever lived. I obviously can't really compare to players outside of my generation, but I'm pretty confident I won't see a better player in my lifetime. Don't get me wrong, I think Ronaldo is a great player, and is probably more 'rounded' with his superior physique and heading abilities, but he doesn't have the same kind of effect on a game that Messi does.

I also don't see how you can only qualify to be the best player ever if you have won the world cup. That's just non-nonsensical. There are plenty of truly great players that have never won a world cup, and funnily enough football is a team game. Great teams win the world cup, not great players.

You talk about the whole game going through Messi. Go and watch video of Maradona at the 86 World Cup. Everything went through Maradona and he also scored most of the goals. In the Belgium match he ran the game and there's a published stat that the first time he gave the ball away through a misplaced pass or lost tackle was in the 69th minute. Pele 1 and Maradona 2 for me but that's because Maradona was a cheating C**T.

 

[Kosh]

I remember being at that match at Chester, we saw Bellotti beforehand and tried to give him a slap but he escaped, and afterwards everyone thought we were dead and buried.

Yep I did too, but you know something I'm glad we had those days, it helps acutely adjust my expectations/feelings with regard our glorious present. From Minton, through Vicente, to Tex we've climbed a long way from the abyss.

A slap you say! that man was only fit for a bond villain moment... you know the guy who's walking arm in arm with said villain - "I'm delighted you've shown an interest in my affairs Mr Bellotti, please take a closer look... cut to the body of a man being washed over a waterfall..." Striking music, cut back to the villain (let's call him Epitaph, oooohhh I like that), climbing aboard a helicopter piloted by two chicks in black bikinis... "where to Mr Epitaph?" "Immortality my dear, immortality..." Cut to Bond riding atop a white charger in a polo game... shower scene... call from M on his belt buckle, some product placement... car... main theme... shit, this writes itself!

Awesome!

I'd say Pele.

 

[rouseytastic]

Excellent at club level. However like Ronaldinho, has so far failed to perform at international level.

Messi is clearly an amazing player but he is playing for and has always playing for one of the best club teams around.

His next World Cup for me is the defining moment of whether he can be called the greatest player of all time.

This guy talks a lot of sense

 

[Harry H]

I loved watching Best,Pele,Maradona,Charlton.........but even at my age Messi excites me.He does things I have never seen before.He gets cynically battered,but gets up and carries on.
Ronaldo is not averse to cheating. Messi is pure football.

 

[Harry H]

This guy talks a lot of sense

How good was George Best in World Cups?

 

[champion7]

Just out of curiosity, are you one of the people that thinks CR7 is the best 'because he made it the hard way' of playing at poor old Man Utd and Real Madrid where his teammates were utter guff?

No,

 

[The Modfather]

The best since Maradona but hasn't reached his level yet.

 

[W.C.]

I go along with this. Ronaldo is almost a robotic footballer to me, lots of speed, strength and power in straight lines. Messi is just so much more stylish, classy and as you say, beautiful to watch.

Ronaldo is superb but I agree and have also thought there's a bit of the cyborg to him too. Messi still looks like a kid playing football.

 

[wallyback]

Neither did they have career statistics of 496 club games scoring 408 goals!

Messi performs in an era where you can't physically tackle like they did in the 60s and 70s.

Best and Greaves would match, or even exceed Messi in today's football

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Messi performs in an era where you can't physically tackle like they did in the 60s and 70s.

You've not watched a spanish league game then.

They will do ANYTHING in their power to stop him and he just gets up, brushes himself down and carries on.

 

[LU7 RED]

The first point I agree with (mainly because he was my favourite player growing up and always seemed a step above everyone else on the pitch) but I fear his lack of goals over the course of his career stops him from truly being amongst that top top bracket (at Real Madrid for example, he often played the same position CR7 currently plays so there is a good comparison point there yet he wasn't nearly as decisive in terms of pure output).

In regards to the second point, can someone please explain to me why he needs to move on from playing for one of the top three clubs in the whole world just to be considered a true great? And more to the point, where should he move to? Does he have to move to an underdog (ie Brighton on £5k a week) and then single-handedly win said underdog their respective top division and then the Champions League?

And more to the point, why does this (utterly idiotic line of argument) never get levelled at CR7 when he's played for the two richest clubs in both Spain and England? How does the fact that he has played in rainy Stoke make him a better footballer than Messi? In fact, how does proving himself at Man Utd on top of Real Madrid make him a better player? More to the point, when have Zidane or the real Ronaldo, or Ronaldinho or Pele or Maradona for that matter ever proven that they can do it on a wet Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday in Stoke (it must always rain in Stoke)? Does this (God awful) logic mean that Bojan is better than Messi because he s won the Champions League/ La Liga and also won games in Stoke even when it is raining?

OK OK! I thought you were going to explode there!!

I suppose it was more that i'd like to see him move away from Barca because you can't argue against the fact that he has had it set up for him there since he was younger, whereas the majority of the other players have had to come out of their 'comfort zone'. I would put the 'wet Tuesday in Stoke' in as it's a good example of being out of your comfort zone (I was at Uni there for 4 years and know how bloody miserable it can be!).

I don't think for one minute that he wouldn't be able to handle it either. Bloody wish he would come over!

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

OK OK! I thought you were going to explode there!!

I suppose it was more that i'd like to see him move away from Barca because you can't argue against the fact that he has had it set up for him there since he was younger, whereas the majority of the other players have had to come out of their 'comfort zone'. I would put the 'wet Tuesday in Stoke' in as it's a good example of being out of your comfort zone (I was at Uni there for 4 years and know how bloody miserable it can be!).

I don't think for one minute that he wouldn't be able to handle it either. Bloody wish he would come over!

Whilst I appreciate I went on a bit of a rant, I still don't really think you've answered any of my questions haha. The point is, how is breaking through and having to earn your place at Barca (which isn't his home country by the way; where he has had to have hormone therapy to ensure he wasn't a dwarf essentially) any easier than breaking through at Sporting under no pressure at all and then being sold to the richest club in England before then going to his dream club in Madrid as has happened to CR7?

Would you level the same at messers Giggs, Gerrard, Scholes, Xavi, Iniesta, Lahm, G.Nev for example? I know they aren't being talked about as the best ever but is their star/ability diminished in your eyes simply because they never left their respective clubs? Does that make them any less great than they were? Really the same logic could be levelled at Pele could it not?

I apologise that it seems I was ranting at you specifically as I wasn't. I just think that that whole line of argument is, at the very very best, weak, and funnily enough, no one that ever has that argument seems to be able to actually back up what they're saying with any logic. I mean all players (or at least most) strive to be the best they can be so that they can play for the best clubs in the world and win things. Does it really make Messi's achievements any less incredible just because he started at one of those clubs? For example, if he went to Bayern and scored 50 goals a season there under Pep would you think he'd proven himself to be the best purely because he'd played in a different shirt?