Is Keir really credible?

[Thunder Bolt]

A great speech by Feargal Sharkey at the LPC

[tweet]1574796291061727232[/tweet]

 

[Bold Seagull]

Dont bother, there's no raisining with some posters

I'm just glad someone fig-ured out.

 

[Guinness Boy]

New Labour.

View attachment 152279

As opposed to Truss who would call Dave unproductive and lazy and then fire everyone before devaluing their currency, increasing their debt exposure and increasing their household bills by £1000 a month,

 

[nicko31]

Mods request...

a) Change this thread to Kier Starmer

b) Change Lizz Truss thread to is Lizz credible?

 

[Weststander]

Mmmmm....which labour?

And the amusing post resonates with the rubric of New Labour how?

I thought you were reasonably sensible but that's one of the most idiotic posts I have ever seen! Anyway, we can all play this game. Here you go:

New Conservative!

View attachment 152280

due to Kung-Flu.

 

[Weststander]

I'm just glad someone fig-ured out.

Stick to currant affairs.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Stick to currant affairs.

Post #425 if you want to stay up to date.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Mods request...

a) Change this thread to Kier Starmer

b) Change Lizz Truss thread to is Lizz credible?

He's a knight of the realm, which is something he's earned unlike most of them. So whether you like him or not, it should be Sir Keir Starmer

 

[Seagull27]

I'm just glad someone fig-ured out.

Perhaps we should prune back some of the posts to make them more obvious

 

[Machiavelli]

Is this information currant?

After the past week, you'd imagine that the infomation is no longer currant and their numbers are raisin.

 

[Machiavelli]

Perhaps we should prune back some of the posts to make them more obvious

Look at that man go

 

[Guinness Boy]

Mods request...

a) Change this thread to Kier Starmer

b) Change Lizz Truss thread to is Lizz credible?

The content on both (and, yes I know I'm posting on them) is broadly similar, just as [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] predicted. In fact, it's nice to see most political commentators agreeing that Starmer is very credible. You could go by them or just go by the number of times the OP of this thread is incredibly wrong about things.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Don't exaggerate.
https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/new-figures-confirm-huge-increase-in-labour-expulsions-under-starmer/

Seriously - a pro-Blairite Zionist paper - and the article only refers to people expelled for allegedly holding anti-semitic views. I personally know more than 300 people that have been expelled from the LP since Corbyn was shafted (some for the crime of attending a public meeting). Through much of 2021 more than 1,000 members were being expelled every week. Entire groups like @Resist', 'Socialist Appeal', Labour Against the Witchhunt' etc were proscribed and their supporters summarily expelled.

Another person to the left of the labour party, feverishly giving succour to the tories, with his twisted and partial world view.

I don't have a problem with people holding different political views to myself and I am willing and able to debate with any opposing political view - but to accuse me of 'giving succour to the Tories' because I point out that Starmer is a pale pink tory in New Labour clothing is nonsense.

Furthermore - to accuse me of having a 'twisted and partial world view' without ever presenting evidence to prove your accusation - really is a bit much. If I hold such a view then it should be easy for you to demonstrate such - instead of just tossing insults around.

christ! you are tedious

I have been accused of worse - see above

You don't get it do you?

England won't vote for a socialist Govt - see Corbyn

They will vote for a centre left Party - see Blair

I guess you'd rather keep the Tory Party in Govt?

Here is the problem - the evidence contradicts your assertion - and I notice that you refer to 'England' and not the UK (a bit of English nationalism coming through there perhaps)

'England' voted for a Labour landslide in 1945 when the LP put forward a radical left-wing programme that led to the establishment of the NHS, free education and the welfare state. 'England' didn't vote for a 'left of centre LP' during the height of the deeply unpopular Thatcher years - 'England' voted for the Blair governments because the Tories were so mired in scandal, corruption and a collapsing economy that Screaming Lord Sutch could have beaten them - and then the Blairites became mired in the same corruptiona dn scandal (as well as engaging in war crimes) that they allowed the Tories back in.

Left-wing LP candidates have a long tradition of increasing the LP vote when the so-called 'left of centre LP' candidates were losing votes to the Tories. The Corbyn led LP won more votes than any other labour leader since 1966 with the exception of the first election win by Blair in 1997 (when - like I said - Screaming Lord Sutch could have beaten the Tories if he was leading the LP) - and this was despite the Blairites, including Starmer, doing everything in their power to sabotage the LP election campaign. Furthermore - the left-wing policies put forward by Corbyn are increasingly popular among a majority of the British population - renationalisation of energy supply - renationalisation of water - renationalisation of the railways - renationalisation of the Royal Mail - increased minimum wage - increased taxation of those earning more than £100K - a wealth tax - reduction of inequality - increased spending on public servies - scrapping of student debt - etc - indeed many of these policies are supported by a majority of Tory voters (see YouGov reports)

I do not want to see a Tory government in power - in part because of the potential damage it could do to Ireland - and by Tory I mean the Starmer version of pale pink toryism as well as the Truss version. Indeed - it could not be ruled out that the tories could completely implode and 'New Labour' could become the main political representative of the rich elites and oligarchs in British society.

All of it's rubbish, but this is extraordinary. Tying to blame Peter Kyle for reigniting sectarian conflict! Harsh.

I think you should try reading what I actually wrote - and clearly you have no idea about the reaction of Kyle's comments in the North and the reaction in the different communites on the ground in Belfast and elsewhere.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Is this information currant?

The LP membership went from 190K to almost 600K after Corbyn was elected leader - the current LP membership is 'officially' 417K - and falling rapidly - as has been linked, the membership has fallen by 90,000 in the past 12 months - with many of those actually being expelled because they hold left-wing views - for example, the expulsion of 71-year-old Audrey White (a lifelong activist and trade unionist who I know personally) who was expelled for daring to challenge Starmer publicly over his expulsion of LP members while he was on a visit to Liverpool - she was 'expelled' four days later by letter from the LP NEC without any hearing, any appeal etc (i.e. against the LP's own rules). Starmer's leadership had previously attempted to expel her over false calims of anti-semitism in the Jewish Chronicle, who subsequently paid her substantial damages over the false accusations - this time they didn't even give an excuse, simply informing her that she had been expelled six months earlier (even though they still continued to deduct her membership dues from her bank account).

dont forget there were a number of Tory voters that joined, to vote for Corbyn as they thought it would be funny.

Oh bullsh*t

I agree that the Corbyn version of socialism isn’t universally popular. That’s why the likes of JRG want to impose it on people.

I don't want to impose anything on anyone - I have campaigned my entire life to convince people of the necessity for a democratically planned socialised economy

At the same time, there is no point in having a left of centre party in permanent opposition. You might as well have a dictatorship.

Effectiely Britain has a dictatorship in policy terms - there is little to distinguish a Starmer government from the Tories (with the exception of the nuttier soundbites from Truss) - the best thing Starmer could do is keep his mouth shut - but he is not capable of doing that.

Keir offers the best chance of that party coming to power and people are beginning to realise that. The absolute cluster***k Truss et al are making of government is helping.

Starmer isn't winning any election - just like with Blair, the Tories are self-imploding and there is nothing left on the political landscape except the pale pink Tories. That is why Corbyn throwing his weight being the Enough is Enough campaign would have a major impact. a political party based on Enough is Enough with Corbyn as leader would grow to a membership of 250K within weeks because working class people would see it as a real alternative. Instead working class people are likely to stay away from the polls in droves.

 

[jcdenton08]

The LP membership went from 190K to almost 600K after Corbyn was elected leader - the current LP membership is 'officially' 417K - and falling rapidly - as has been linked, the membership has fallen by 90,000 in the past 12 months - with many of those actually being expelled because they hold left-wing views - for example, the expulsion of 71-year-old Audrey White (a lifelong activist and trade unionist who I know personally) who was expelled for daring to challenge Starmer publicly over his expulsion of LP members while he was on a visit to Liverpool - she was 'expelled' four days later by letter from the LP NEC without any hearing, any appeal etc (i.e. against the LP's own rules). Starmer's leadership had previously attempted to expel her over false calims of anti-semitism in the Jewish Chronicle, who subsequently paid her substantial damages over the false accusations - this time they didn't even give an excuse, simply informing her that she had been expelled six months earlier (even though they still continued to deduct her membership dues from her bank account).


Oh bullsh*t


I don't want to impose anything on anyone - I have campaigned my entire life to convince people of the necessity for a democratically planned socialised economy


Effectiely Britain has a dictatorship in policy terms - there is little to distinguish a Starmer government from the Tories (with the exception of the nuttier soundbites from Truss) - the best thing Starmer could do is keep his mouth shut - but he is not capable of doing that.


Starmer isn't winning any election - just like with Blair, the Tories are self-imploding and there is nothing left on the political landscape except the pale pink Tories. That is why Corbyn throwing his weight being the Enough is Enough campaign would have a major impact. a political party based on Enough is Enough with Corbyn as leader would grow to a membership of 250K within weeks because working class people would see it as a real alternative. Instead working class people are likely to stay away from the polls in droves.

Would Enough is Enough, with Corbyn behind them, win a general election?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Seriously - a pro-Blairite Zionist paper - and the article only refers to people expelled for allegedly holding anti-semitic views. I personally know more than 300 people that have been expelled from the LP since Corbyn was shafted (some for the crime of attending a public meeting). Through much of 2021 more than 1,000 members were being expelled every week. Entire groups like @Resist', 'Socialist Appeal', Labour Against the Witchhunt' etc were proscribed and their supporters summarily expelled.


I don't have a problem with people holding different political views to myself and I am willing and able to debate with any opposing political view - but to accuse me of 'giving succour to the Tories' because I point out that Starmer is a pale pink tory in New Labour clothing is nonsense.

Furthermore - to accuse me of having a 'twisted and partial world view' without ever presenting evidence to prove your accusation - really is a bit much. If I hold such a view then it should be easy for you to demonstrate such - instead of just tossing insults around.


I have been accused of worse - see above

Here is the problem - the evidence contradicts your assertion - and I notice that you refer to 'England' and not the UK (a bit of English nationalism coming through there perhaps)

'England' voted for a Labour landslide in 1945 when the LP put forward a radical left-wing programme that led to the establishment of the NHS, free education and the welfare state. 'England' didn't vote for a 'left of centre LP' during the height of the deeply unpopular Thatcher years - 'England' voted for the Blair governments because the Tories were so mired in scandal, corruption and a collapsing economy that Screaming Lord Sutch could have beaten them - and then the Blairites became mired in the same corruptiona dn scandal (as well as engaging in war crimes) that they allowed the Tories back in.

Left-wing LP candidates have a long tradition of increasing the LP vote when the so-called 'left of centre LP' candidates were losing votes to the Tories. The Corbyn led LP won more votes than any other labour leader since 1966 with the exception of the first election win by Blair in 1997 (when - like I said - Screaming Lord Sutch could have beaten the Tories if he was leading the LP) - and this was despite the Blairites, including Starmer, doing everything in their power to sabotage the LP election campaign. Furthermore - the left-wing policies put forward by Corbyn are increasingly popular among a majority of the British population - renationalisation of energy supply - renationalisation of water - renationalisation of the railways - renationalisation of the Royal Mail - increased minimum wage - increased taxation of those earning more than £100K - a wealth tax - reduction of inequality - increased spending on public servies - scrapping of student debt - etc - indeed many of these policies are supported by a majority of Tory voters (see YouGov reports)

I do not want to see a Tory government in power - in part because of the potential damage it could do to Ireland - and by Tory I mean the Starmer version of pale pink toryism as well as the Truss version. Indeed - it could not be ruled out that the tories could completely implode and 'New Labour' could become the main political representative of the rich elites and oligarchs in British society.



I think you should try reading what I actually wrote - and clearly you have no idea about the reaction of Kyle's comments in the North and the reaction in the different communites on the ground in Belfast and elsewhere.

You have presented the evidence. My assessment of that is my opinion, of course. And we therefore need another count of the number of angels on the head of the pin. But, I'm bored now, though. So I'll stick with my support of Starmer Labour. You are free to spoil your ballot. If you have a vote, of course.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Would Enough is Enough, with Corbyn behind them, win a general election?

Probably not - the British electoral system is quite undemocratic. But they would likely do enough damage to prevent either the Tories or Starmer's New Labour getting a majority (with the possible outcome of Tories jumping into New Labour - like Bercow and Wakeford). Politics is in crisis on a global basis - because capitalism is lurching from crisis to crisis - and, as a result, new political formations (both on the left and the right) will emerge, with the old traditional conservative/social democracy axis vanishing from the political landscape (Ireland is going through this process at the moment with the traditional parties of the establishment Fianna Fail and Fine Gael losing support while the populist Sinn Fein - who use a lot of left rhetoric - now with more support than both put together - the LP in Ireland is on about 3% support - less than the far-left Solidarity-People Before Profit)

What it would do is establish Enough is Enough as a real left-wing political alternative to the Tories and the pale pink tories. The election after the next one would be the interesting one.

 

[Weststander]

The LP membership went from 190K to almost 600K after Corbyn was elected leader - the current LP membership is 'officially' 417K - and falling rapidly - as has been linked, the membership has fallen by 90,000 in the past 12 months - with many of those actually being expelled because they hold left-wing views - for example, the expulsion of 71-year-old Audrey White (a lifelong activist and trade unionist who I know personally) who was expelled for daring to challenge Starmer publicly over his expulsion of LP members while he was on a visit to Liverpool - she was 'expelled' four days later by letter from the LP NEC without any hearing, any appeal etc (i.e. against the LP's own rules). Starmer's leadership had previously attempted to expel her over false calims of anti-semitism in the Jewish Chronicle, who subsequently paid her substantial damages over the false accusations - this time they didn't even give an excuse, simply informing her that she had been expelled six months earlier (even though they still continued to deduct her membership dues from her bank account).


Oh bullsh*t


I don't want to impose anything on anyone - I have campaigned my entire life to convince people of the necessity for a democratically planned socialised economy


Effectiely Britain has a dictatorship in policy terms - there is little to distinguish a Starmer government from the Tories (with the exception of the nuttier soundbites from Truss) - the best thing Starmer could do is keep his mouth shut - but he is not capable of doing that.


Starmer isn't winning any election - just like with Blair, the Tories are self-imploding and there is nothing left on the political landscape except the pale pink Tories. That is why Corbyn throwing his weight being the Enough is Enough campaign would have a major impact. a political party based on Enough is Enough with Corbyn as leader would grow to a membership of 250K within weeks because working class people would see it as a real alternative. Instead working class people are likely to stay away from the polls in droves.

I thank [MENTION=16159]Bold Seagull[/MENTION] for raisin a good point. Could this possibly be sour grapes because Starmer’s version of Labour suits the UK electorate?

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

You are free to spoil your ballot. If you have a vote, of course.

Don't have a vote in the UK - my daughter does though - she is in Croydon North and won't be voting for the Blairite MP in the constituency.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

I thank [MENTION=16159]Bold Seagull[/MENTION] for raisin a good point. Could this possibly be sour grapes because Starmer’s version of Labour suits the UK electorate?

It doesn't though - the reason the LP is currently so high in the polls is because the Tories are imploding - not because of Starmer.

As I already pointed out - a majority of the people in the UK support the left-wing polices advocated by Corbyn - not the polices advocated by Starmer. All you have to do is look at the LP conference last week where Starmer attempted to out-Tory the Tories by hyping up monarchism and British nationalism.