Is it time to bring the rip off railways back into public ownership?

[Kent Seagull]

When it was one industry - British Rail - it was subsidised to the tune of a billion to a billion-and-a-half in today's money and at the moment it's getting four billion pounds of taxpayers' money. Still think it's more expensive to have a privatised railway?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I dont understand why government run railways would cost us so much more?

If thats the case what is the motivation for these private companies to bid for the contracts? I cant imagine they are doing it out of kindness to help pay for the running of the country.

Just because in the past BR were shit and the railways didnt get the investment they needed doesnt mean it always has to be that way under public ownership?

Correct. Other nations have efficient and well run publicly owned companies.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I am genuinely embarassed when i see foreign tourists joining an FCC train at gatwick in the morning , what must their first impression of our country be !!

And this is after the poor soles have passsed through immigration. Now the Olympics are over I see they are back to their under-staffed, multi-million pound technology not working ways of before.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Thatcher should be blankety blank for the rest of her feeble life, for crimes against the people of this country.

Anyone?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

When it was one industry - British Rail - it was subsidised to the tune of a billion to a billion-and-a-half in today's money and at the moment it's getting four billion pounds of taxpayers' money. Still think it's more expensive to have a privatised railway?

I hear you brother.

 

[Hove Seagull]

I blame the Argies. If they hadn't invaded the Falkland Islands, then she would have been out on her ear a lot bloody sooner!

 

[Ernest]

You either run the railways as a national asset out of the public purse as a service for all or you run it as a privatised industry whose only concern is the shareholders dividends at the end of the day

 

[Ernest]

I blame the Argies. If they hadn't invaded the Falkland Islands, then she would have been out on her ear a lot bloody sooner!

John Major privatised them, it was in his 1992 manifesto

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

Maybe not as clean as the current rolling stock and I have no idea how efficiency compares but they were well priced, tickets were simple (6 types across the entire network apparently..now there are 6 types on some journeys alone), carriages were spacious, the staff on the trains, stations and platforms were generally enthusiastic helpful train spotter types with a wealth of knowledge and the service was integrated and trains and stations worked with each other as opposed to being in competition. We need to build on this with a few tweaks not destroy it which is what has happened. All we needed to do was add reliability and scrub the trains up and BR would have been a decent and solid service.

As a commutter I don't need some trainspotter type telling me that this a type 5 loco with small gague. I want a reliable clean service. BR didn't deliver that. Privitisation has.

I'd also challenge your statement on spacious carriages and staff. The trains are far better places than they used to be. As for staff, as a rule I find them a lot nicer. Back in the old days there were loads of staff who thought they owned the railways and were frankly pretty obnoxious to passengers.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

The biggest problem with BR was lack of investment. Close the massive tax gap that exists in this country, end spending on pointless foreign wars and outdated missile systems, promote growth via investment and social house building and we will have money for many things.
many things.

You mean this tax gap?

Whats the Tax Gap? » Tax Research UK

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

FCC don't actually receive a subsidy. They are in the select group of TOCs that pay a premium to the treasury. Southern's subsidy has reduced steadily year on year and will probably have to start paying a premium in the next year or two.

I'd put FCC somewhere near the bottom of TOCs in terms of performance. Southern mid-table.

Interesting of the two TOCs than run on the London to Brighton line, the one that does not get a subsidy off the government is the one most roundly criticised on here for poor performance! This is on what is supposed to be a profitable rail line too.

It just proves to me that even the potentially profitable rail lines still need state investment and I would rather that went purely into the operator, its employees and its infrastructure than into a private company and therefore shareholders.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

Scales here are far different. The swiss network has 824 stations while we have 2,516 stations. Also the punctuality thing is a bit of a myth. Latest figures show that Swiss trains are 87% punctual while Uk trains are 92% punctual.

Are the standards of punctuality the same in Switzerland and the UK?

 

[Storer 68]

The company you all want to be part of is not First Group 9who are a TOC) but Porterbrook, who lease the trains to the TOCs.

Porterbrook’s culture is of being highly proactive and pioneering, as evidenced by the purchase of the first new passenger trains in the UK post-privatisation and subsequent award of the largest single order of new vehicles with the purchase of 700 Class 377 Electrostar vehicles. Similarly Porterbrook was the first rolling stock leasing company to add freight equipment to its portfolio.

As well as investing in new trains, Porterbrook finances the refurbishment and upgrading of existing stock to modern standards and has already invested more than £200 million in this process, as a result enhanced passenger comfort and safety creates the effect of new trains thereby extending the operational life of the vehicles.

Since 1996 Porterbrook has invested in over 1,700 new passenger vehicles for UK rail industry.

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

Does no one remember British Railways?

Woeful.

I remember them and however woeful you thought they were they were better value for money than we have today. Britain always had a railway system that was the envy of Europe... until we privatised... now they laugh at the fuss we make and the amount of money we have to pay. Theory is what you pay equals the quality of service. Yes the quality of service of railways thirty years ago was quite poor but better value than today.

 

[Hove Seagull]

John Major privatised them, it was in his 1992 manifesto

Don't let FACTS get in the WAY of my thatcher BASHING!

 

[Storer 68]

Are the standards of punctuality the same in Switzerland and the UK?

No. A train in Switzerland is punctual if it arrives with 15 seconds of the advertised time, and if its is due to depart at 09:00.00 t will leave precisely at 09:00.00 . In the UK a train is, for the TOC's records and agreements, puctual if it arrives within 5 minutes of the advertised time

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

As a commutter I don't need some trainspotter type telling me that this a type 5 loco with small gague. I want a reliable clean service. BR didn't deliver that. Privitisation has.

I'd also challenge your statement on spacious carriages and staff. The trains are far better places than they used to be. As for staff, as a rule I find them a lot nicer. Back in the old days there were loads of staff who thought they owned the railways and were frankly pretty obnoxious to passengers.

I am not questioning the cleanliness. The BR trains did need a good scrub. And I have no idea how reliable trains are now compared to 20 years ago either. What I do know is that they still seem very prone to delays. Especially FCC.

Ask a member of staff a question these days and they know f*** all about anything let alone the service, timetables, best option etc. Back in the day staff could rattle the times and connections off the top of their head.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

No. A train in Switzerland is punctual if it arrives with 15 seconds of the advertised time, and if its is due to depart at 09:00.00 t will leave precisely at 09:00.00 . In the UK a train is, for the TOC's records and agreements, puctual if it arrives

I have correctd you.

 

[Hove Seagull]

John Major privatised them, it was in his 1992 manifesto

Don't let FACTS get in the WAY of my thatcher BASHING!

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

Thatcher should be tried and imprisoned for the rest of her feeble life, for crimes against the people of this country.

As much as I dislike the woman, the railway privatisation had nothing to do with her - it was John Major.