[Albion] Is Graham Potter overrated as a Premier League manager?

[Bold Seagull]

Very true.

He can only work and improve with what he’s got.

Potter set us up perfectly for this fixture and we dominated from the outset, a testament to though (me included) who were worried about a Norwich performance, there wasn’t one


His set up allowed for 31 attempts on goal and we were in full control of the match, the players take the full responsibility for converting

We need to shift a few this summer and start blooding the talented youth we have acquired, after all this is the model

There’s an article on BBC how Eriksen has rejuvenated Brentford. You need to keep moving, keep evolving. Outside of our recent home form, it’s our most comfortable PL season yet, there’s been no threat of relegation or even skirting that battle. But we have rested on our laurels a bit. From a return on investment point of view, a 6th PL season will be a success, despite al the toys littered around various prams.

 

[Stat Brother]

Very true.

He can only work and improve with what he’s got.

Potter set us up perfectly for this fixture and we dominated from the outset, a testament to though (me included) who were worried about a Norwich performance, there wasn’t one


His set up allowed for 31 attempts on goal and we were in full control of the match, the players take the full responsibility for converting

We need to shift a few this summer and start blooding the talented youth we have acquired, after all this is the model

No there wasn't a Norwich performance.
Which was hardly surprising what with them being bottom, a gd of -45, and now only 4 clean sheets all season (I guess I don't have to pad that fact out further, do I?)

I remember Marshall in goal for Cardiff, in a night game at t'Amex, making 6 or 7 goal bound saves to thwart the Albion.
He singlehandedly (footedley, bodyedly) left Sussex with the point.

Tim Krul made 1 (one) good save from a team that hasn't scored in months.


Doing the same thing over and over again and somehow expecting things to be different is the definition of insanity.

Setting his team up to shoot after the opposition has regained its formation isn't a team perfectly set up for the fixture.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

No there wasn't a Norwich performance.
Which was hardly surprising what with them being bottom, a gd of -45, and now only 4 clean sheets all season (I guess I don't have to pad that fact out further, do I?)

I remember Marshall in goal for Cardiff, in a night game at t'Amex, making 6 or 7 goal bound saves to thwart the Albion.
He singlehandedly (footedley, bodyedly) left Sussex with the point.

Tim Krul made 1 (one) good save from a team that hasn't scored in months.


Doing the same thing over and over again and somehow expecting things to be different is the definition of insanity.

Setting his team up to shoot after the opposition has regained its formation isn't a team perfectly set up for the fixture.

31 attempts on goal and in full control of the entire game, had we scored the penalty and won, are you saying this wouldn’t have been a performance?

 

[Medwayseagull]

He has clearly never heard that if you keep doing the same things over and over again you will keep getting the same outcomes over and over again.

 

[usernamed]

Never understood this argument. Just because you - like Trossard - can score a goal against Benin and two against Belarus doesnt mean you can do the same thing in the Premier League. This isnt League One or Two, every PL team is better than all but 15 or so national teams.

Sorry, the goal is in the same place and is the same size regardless of opposition. Of course the players are going to get less time on the ball in this league, but we’re getting shots away, and if these players know where the goal is and can find it when elsewhere, our proven inability to score collectively as a team has to (at least partially) come down to what’s being coached (or not being coached) week in/week out on the training pitch.

Just look at our shots/shots on target. A lack of composure under pressure plays a part (see Maupay’s pen yesterday) but we’re not getting goals from anywhere. The team put out yesterday should have scored a couple, and at least had a significantly better shots on target to shots ratio.

Our attacking play just isn’t quick or strong enough to give us easily convertible chances, and our shooting is too woefully inaccurate to score the type of chances we do get. I don’t doubt that Klopp and Guardiola will continue to laud GP, he is a good coach, with a clear image of how he wants the players to play, but Bielsa was shown a similar amount of love, and it didn’t change the results. Is it the mark of a good coach to play a style of attacking play that’s ineffectual in the league you’re competing in?

It could be we’ve reached the limit of the players we have, in which case, losing Dan Ashworth is no big deal, but I have to say I came away (in general) proud of the performance and the players. Still, if we can’t find a single goal with the team we put out yesterday, against by far the worst team in the league, then we have to look again at how we coach attacking play.

In the Premier League, non set-piece goals are largely scored from situations where the opposing defence have not had time to prepare themselves and are running back or scrambling to react to a pass they weren’t expecting. Our attacks are met by prepared defensive units, because the way GP plays, we don’t seem to feel it’s sporting to surprise the opposition defence when attacking.

In short, yet again, I thought the team played well, while being about as incisive as a rubber spoon. I want to see some of this world-famous GP adaptability, and a change of approach to attacking play, coz if there isn’t, there will be a change of manager regardless of how I feel about it, and I like GP.

P.s. I couldn’t score a goal against Benin or Belarus.

 

[Stat Brother]

31 attempts on goal and in full control of the entire game, had we scored the penalty and won, are you saying this wouldn’t have been a performance?

31 attempts towards goal.
1 save.



They didn't score the penalty.
They didn't score a goal.
They didn't win.
Since when did the things that didn't happen contribute to the narrative?


GPott and his not so merry men has given Norwich 50% of their clean sheets this season.
Failed at home.
Failed to score.
Failed to beat a failing team.

 

[Swansman]

31 attempts towards goal.
1 save.



They didn't score the penalty.
They didn't score a goal.
They didn't win.
Since when did the things that didn't happen contribute to the narrative?


GPott and his not so merry men has given Norwich 50% of their clean sheets this season.
Failed at home.
Failed to score.
Failed to beat a failing team.

Why do you care? If Brighton won the game, quite a lot of people would have been happy while you would make comments in every thread about "we're losing next week! cant believe you are happy!", like after the Watford game.

 

[Guinness Boy]

You totally undermined yourself with your Gerrard point. Villa are two points better off than us despite him adding Coutinho and Digne in January. They also have Watkins who despite your dig is a far better striker than we have on the books, they also have Ings. Give Potter Watkins and Ings and I guarantee you we finish above Villa.

There was a thread on here recently suggesting Ings for us and Potter's greatest disciple [MENTION=38333]Swansman[/MENTION] decided he was a very average player apart from his finishing

So it would seem that the man who claims to know Potter the best on here wants us to add yet another paceless midget who's good at creating space and passing sideways. It makes you wonder if Potter's getting exactly the sort of players he's asking for or if the whole Momeyball algorithm isn't taking finishing into account. Either way, I agree, Ings would be great here, but watch us not sign him.

As for Watkins, Brentford under Benham have done exactly what Brighton under Bloom have failed to do and been a conveyor belt of great strikers. We just happened to have signed the worst out of the trio of Toney, Watkins and Maupay. Whether that's because of budget, because of the great Dan Ashworth or because we need "Potter types of players" is, frankly, up for debate.

And you undermine yourself by failing to point out Gerrard hasn't been in charge at Villa all season but has taken six points off us - unlike previous seasons when they were still of a much higher budget.

 

[zefarelly]

Just watched MotD lowlights . . . . Veltman is more composed and capable than Maupay.

Maupay needs dropping and Potter can't do it

Big big problem.

 

[Swansman]

Sorry, the goal is in the same place and is the same size regardless of opposition. Of course the players are going to get less time on the ball in this league, but we’re getting shots away, and if these players know where the goal is and can find it when elsewhere, our proven inability to score collectively as a team has to (at least partially) come down to what’s being coached (or not being coached) week in/week out on the training pitch.

Just look at our shots/shots on target. A lack of composure under pressure plays a part (see Maupay’s pen yesterday) but we’re not getting goals from anywhere. The team put out yesterday should have scored a couple, and at least had a significantly better shots on target to shots ratio.

Our attacking play just isn’t quick or strong enough to give us easily convertible chances, and our shooting is too woefully inaccurate to score the type of chances we do get. I don’t doubt that Klopp and Guardiola will continue to laud GP, he is a good coach, with a clear image of how he wants the players to play, but Bielsa was shown a similar amount of love, and it didn’t change the results. Is it the mark of a good coach to play a style of attacking play that’s ineffectual in the league you’re competing in?

It could be we’ve reached the limit of the players we have, in which case, losing Dan Ashworth is no big deal, but I have to say I came away (in general) proud of the performance and the players. Still, if we can’t find a single goal with the team we put out yesterday, against by far the worst team in the league, then we have to look again at how we coach attacking play.

In the Premier League, non set-piece goals are largely scored from situations where the opposing defence have not had time to prepare themselves and are running back or scrambling to react to a pass they weren’t expecting. Our attacks are met by prepared defensive units, because the way GP plays, we don’t seem to feel it’s sporting to surprise the opposition defence when attacking.

In short, yet again, I thought the team played well, while being about as incisive as a rubber spoon. I want to see some of this world-famous GP adaptability, and a change of approach to attacking play, coz if there isn’t, there will be a change of manager regardless of how I feel about it, and I like GP.

P.s. I couldn’t score a goal against Benin or Belarus.

Yeah that is not how anything works. As usual.

That the goal is the same size regardless of league and opposition doesnt mean players are going to score as many goals regardless of opposition. In the Eredivisie for example you'll have a second to aim, make sure that your supporting leg is in the optimal position, and then fire the shot, while in the PL you'll have half of that time before someone takes the ball from you. In other leagues you will be able to move into dangerous spaces and get good angles, in the Premier League the defenders and midfielders will prevent you from that. It is similar in most games. In chess, the chessboard always looks the same, yet you'll have a tougher time knocking out the King if you are playing against a World Champion compared to playing against some random bloke on the street.

The mark of a good coach is to have good players because then you win a lot of games and gets considered a good coach. Because good players it what is going to make you win football games. There's good reasons why clubs spend hundreds of millons on players and coffee money on managers/coaches.

 

[Swansman]

There was a thread on here recently suggesting Ings for us and Potter's greatest disciple [MENTION=38333]Swansman[/MENTION] decided he was a very average player apart from his finishing

So it would seem that the man who claims to know Potter the best on here wants us to add yet another paceless midget who's good at creating space and passing sideways. It makes you wonder if Potter's getting exactly the sort of players he's asking for or if the whole Momeyball algorithm isn't taking finishing into account. Either way, I agree, Ings would be great here, but watch us not sign him.

As for Watkins, Brentford under Benham have done exactly what Brighton under Bloom have failed to do and been a conveyor belt of great strikers. We just happened to have signed the worst out of the trio of Toney, Watkins and Maupay. Whether that's because of budget, because of the great Dan Ashworth or because we need "Potter types of players" is, frankly, up for debate.

And you undermine yourself by failing to point out Gerrard hasn't been in charge at Villa all season but has taken six points off us - unlike previous seasons when they were still of a much higher budget.

You are correct that I find Danny Ings very average apart from his finishing.

That I would want "another paceless midget" is however something made up in that grey thing rippling around inside your skull.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Just watched MotD lowlights . . . . Veltman is more composed and capable than Maupay.

Maupay needs dropping and Potter can't do it

Big big problem.

He has before.

And got pelters for undermining Maupay's confidence

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

31 attempts towards goal.
1 save.



They didn't score the penalty.
They didn't score a goal.
They didn't win.
Since when did the things that didn't happen contribute to the narrative?


GPott and his not so merry men has given Norwich 50% of their clean sheets this season.
Failed at home.
Failed to score.
Failed to beat a failing team.

So all things I’ve just said, would it have been a performance had we won (scored)


Apart from not scoring (leading to a win) what else could we have done better?

 

[Stat Brother]

So all things I’ve just said, would it have been a performance had we won (scored)


Apart from not scoring (leading to a win) what else could we have done better?

Looked like scoring?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You are correct that I find Danny Ings very average apart from his finishing.

That I would want "another paceless midget" is however something made up in that grey thing rippling around inside your skull.

Danny Ings is very average apart from his finishing.This season Ings has played 23 EPL games and scored 5. A far superior return, I admit, than Neal's return of 8 from 28. Oh, hang on. Ah but some of Neal's goals are penalties - he's a top penalty taker. Oh, hang on....no anyway, Ings and Maupay, not much between them, except that Ings plays for another team so is much the better player by definition. Ings is 4 years older and prone to the odd near career-ending injury, too. Singe him up!

I also read somehere in this thread some sneering about Brighton being so dim (I paraphrase) that we bought he crappest of Brentford's three forwards - with Toney and Watkins obviously better. I had to take a pew to think about that...

Watkins was Maupay's understudy and then successor, and has claimed he learned his trade from Neal. Toney was Watkins' successor. So it is bit of a stretch to imply we singed the wrong Bentford striker when we signed their best striker, and the third bloke was playing for Peterbore until 2020. Neither a retrospectroscope nor a Tardis are, I understand, available to our recruitment team

I may be missing something here. Is it a "Swansman is a wrong 'un" narrative, meaning everything he says is wrong by definition?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Yeah that is not how anything works. As usual.

That the goal is the same size regardless of league and opposition doesnt mean players are going to score as many goals regardless of opposition. In the Eredivisie for example you'll have a second to aim, make sure that your supporting leg is in the optimal position, and then fire the shot, while in the PL you'll have half of that time before someone takes the ball from you. In other leagues you will be able to move into dangerous spaces and get good angles, in the Premier League the defenders and midfielders will prevent you from that. It is similar in most games. In chess, the chessboard always looks the same, yet you'll have a tougher time knocking out the King if you are playing against a World Champion compared to playing against some random bloke on the street.

The mark of a good coach is to have good players because then you win a lot of games and gets considered a good coach. Because good players it what is going to make you win football games. There's good reasons why clubs spend hundreds of millons on players and coffee money on managers/coaches.

You have it all wrong. If you have a genius manager like Brian Clough you can take a bunch of Bang Average players, win the league and then go on to win back to back European Cups.

If a manager can't do that with bang average players like ours, he's shitehouse and should be burned. Especially if he sounds like a Brummy EL Wisty, and especially if he has his own fanboy on NSC who has never even set foot on England's Green and Pleasant Land.

 

[Weststander]

Danny Ings is very average apart from his finishing.This season Ings has played 23 EPL games and scored 5. A far superior return, I admit, than Neal's return of 8 from 28. Oh, hang on. Ah but some of Neal's goals are penalties - he's a top penalty taker. Oh, hang on....no anyway, Ings and Maupay, not much between them, except that Ings plays for another team so is much the better player by definition. Ings is 4 years older and prone to the odd near career-ending injury, too. Singe him up!

I also read somehere in this thread some sneering about Brighton being so dim (I paraphrase) that we bought he crappest of Brentford's three forwards - with Toney and Watkins obviously better. I had to take a pew to think about that...

Watkins was Maupay's understudy and then successor, and has claimed he learned his trade from Neal. Toney was Watkins' successor. So it is bit of a stretch to imply we singed the wrong Bentford striker when we signed their best striker, and the third bloke was playing for Peterbore until 2020. Neither a retrospectroscope nor a Tardis are, I understand, available to our recruitment team

I may be missing something here. Is it a "Swansman is a wrong 'un" narrative, meaning everything he says is wrong by definition?

Mods - homophobic post. Get this gammon banned.

 

[Swansman]

Looked like scoring?

Brighton was very close to scoring (aka looked like scoring) several times. Krul might not have made a lot of saves but plenty of attempts went just outside the posts. Obviously doesnt fit your narrative though.

 

[AstroSloth]

Strikers confidence is totally shot, but just look how many goals have come from midfielders this season.......might be being harsh but is it even 2

Big clear out in the summer. Think we need some big bad brutes up front.... current strikers are i'm afraid to say powder puff.

Mac Allister alone got two against Everton.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Brighton was very close to scoring (aka looked like scoring) several times. Krul might not have made a lot of saves but plenty of attempts went just outside the posts. Obviously doesnt fit your narrative though.

Nope, at no stage yesterday did I believe we would score.