Is football about Tribalism and Warfare, or Fun?

[Megazone]

Just wondering what peoples angles are on this.

I was debating with a Spurs fan about the Cantona kung fu kick. The spurs fan believed Cantona should've been kicked out of football for life. I responded by mentioning how the fan did travel from 11 rows back to confront Cantona with racist/provactive abuse and that he too played his part. The Spurs fan responded telling me "that's football, football is a tribal game and players should expect that at football matches, especially after getting sent off". He said that football is about warfare and players should respect that. My response was "it's just game though? the fan got what he deserved, had that been on the street, he would've got a similar reaction from Eric for the comments he made". I told him that football should be a place where people from all backgrounds and geographical locations, should be able to come and enjoy a good atmosphere from grass roots level right up to the professional game. Why should they have to sit around abusive/racist comments? He then proceeded in asking me if I'd ever hurled abuse at a player for making a dirty tackle on a Brighton player which I responded "no". He then started accusing me of lying and talking through my arse. I told him how I tend to shout out encouragement or try and sway the refs decision but I've never been one for venting my anger at opposition players or fans. He then started getting angrier and angrier with my comments and then went on to the football isn't just a game subject. He said "it's tribal warfare. That will never change." I told him about Fans United and how when I was a boy, I watched us beat Hartlepool 5-0 amongst fans from all over the country. I also mentioned how clubs like Man U and Arsenal, who're supported by fans from all over the UK and the world, travel to sit in these grounds. The days when football was a tribal thing are over. He was fuming at this point and told me that Brighton are hated by a lot of clubs because they're a ****** (homophobic word) club. I told him that we very rarely hear that these days and in-fact are the first football club to introduce a gay football team which shows football is moving forward from homophobia too. He then continued with the 'your talking out of your arse' comments.

We left each other in good spirit but I did feel a bit like I'd travelled back to 1975 during that debate. I was very surprised people in todays world still share that opinion. or maybe I'm just missing something about the world of football?

So, is football all about tribalism and warfare, or have we now entered an era where football is more to do with fun and enjoyment?

 

[beorhthelm]

football is a sport to be enjoyed. what happens on the stands and pubs by fanatics (to give their full name) is entirely seperate, its what ever you want it to be, all of the above.

 

[Giraffe]

Both

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It's fun, fully inclusive but sometimes pantomime. Your friend sounds like he has anger management problems, so projects that onto football.

 

[Stato]

This is a difficult thing to say without sounding superior, but a lot of Brighton fans have a different perspective following the events of the late nineties. 'Build a Bonfire' is an inspirational read partly because it shows how people bound by a football club and seemingly nothing else found common ground and mutual respect for each other.

Tribalism for tribalism's sake is useful only for releasing the pent up testosterone of young blokes, but the shared trials and tribulations of losing the Goldstone and fighting for the Amex showed a lot of us, for the first time, who the rest of our tribe were and it made it matter more because it wasn't just for us and our mates: It was for the middle aged woman who sits near you and doesn't like the language, but is willing to go and protest outside her own political party's conference, it was for the next generation of fans who hadn't even been born. Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger is a cliche, but looking back, the experiences have made the fans relationship with the club a lot deeper and, at the risk of sounding poncy, more profound.

Your Spurs supporting opponent is in some ways lucky not to have gone through anything like it, but in another way is lesser for not experiencing what a football club really means to a community. If and when we do eventually make it to the top level we will all know that it will have been achieved together, and on the shoulders of friends and loved ones who may not even be there to see it. We may not all feel the need to shout abuse to display to others that this means everything to us, but that is probably because we have already shown it to each other in ways that mean so much more than macho posturing.

 

[Goldstone1976]

This is a difficult thing to say without sounding superior,

You failed....

but a lot of Brighton fans have a different perspective following the events of the late nineties. 'Build a Bonfire' is an inspirational read partly because it shows how people bound by a football club and seemingly nothing else found common ground and mutual respect for each other.

Tribalism for tribalism's sake is useful only for releasing the pent up testosterone of young blokes, but the shared trials and tribulations of losing the Goldstone and fighting for the Amex showed a lot of us, for the first time, who the rest of our tribe were and it made it matter more because it wasn't just for us and our mates: It was for the middle aged woman who sits near you and doesn't like the language, but is willing to go and protest outside her own political party's conference, it was for the next generation of fans who hadn't even been born. Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger is a cliche, but looking back, the experiences have made the fans relationship with the club a lot deeper and, at the risk of sounding poncy, more profound.

Your Spurs supporting opponent is in some ways lucky not to have gone through anything like it, but in another way is lesser for not experiencing what a football club really means to a community. If and when we do eventually make it to the top level we will all know that it will have been achieved together, and on the shoulders of friends and loved ones who may not even be there to see it. We may not all feel the need to shout abuse to display to others that this means everything to us, but that is probably because we have already shown it to each other in ways that mean so much more than macho posturing.

...but I agree entirely.

 

[Billy the Fish]

You should've nutted him.

 

[Return of the Rev]

WAR!

 

[perseus]

Show biz (=theatre) with a touch of religion.

 

[Megazone]

It's fun, fully inclusive but sometimes pantomime. Your friend sounds like he has anger management problems, so projects that onto football.

Just so you know, he wasn't a friend. I wouldn't do that to myself. I definitely agree with your Psychoanalysis though

 

[atfc village]

Spurs 1961 massive club

 

[Baldseagull]

You should have asked the Spurs fan what he would have thought of Cantona's Kung Fu kick if he had taken out an Arsenal fan.

It is tribal, but isn't war, unless it's Palace.

 

[Megazone]

You should have asked the Spurs fan what he would have thought of Cantona's Kung Fu kick if he had taken out an Arsenal fan.

It is tribal, but isn't war, unless it's Palace.

Wish I had

I did ask him why he thinks so many clubs hate us due to homosexuality? He responded saying something pretty horrific.

So I quoted him on a very interesting test done back in the 90's: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8772014

He went back to the 'talking out of my arse' subject again.

 

[StonehamPark]

Football is about whatever you want it to be about.

For me, it's all FUN FUN FUN.

 

[HastingsSeagull]

Fun and 'banter' but not anything nasty (except for for a few idiots)

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

Football first and foremost is fun(the origins of actually playing the game)......however once the whistle goes be prepared for absolutely anything.

 

[CheeseRolls]

Fun? football is often, just one massive yawn.

Like those conversation that start I'm not really into football/sport but I am going to indulge you with a few questions anyway. Thanks

However almost anything is better than being stuck in a conversation with a massive football dullard like your Spurs man. London teams seem to dominate in this respect.

I say almost there are a fair few Sheff Wed fans who could top this with there in depth analysis of the opposition.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Football is about whatever you want it to be about.

For me, it's all FUN FUN FUN.

This for me. The tribal stuff doesn't actually sit that well with me, but maybe that's just me being precious.

 

[Me and my Monkey]

I believe football is a reflection of the human experience in miniature. Every single human emotion - joy, anger, boredom, love, humour, grief, envy, pride, hate...the list goes on and on...played out over 90 minutes, a season, a lifetime. And tribal, yes. 92 mini dictatorships, some benign (ours), some not so benign, some so badly run they drive their people (fans) to the brink of revolution and beyond. And each tribe in a constant battle with one another to rule the world. And as for the tribal followers, as with any human society, some are more blood thirsty and warlike, some are more philosophical, some backward and insular, etc, etc.

And all played out in the safe bubble we call football, which after all IS only a game.

Now there's poncy for you.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

I believe football is a reflection of the human experience in miniature. Every single human emotion - joy, anger, boredom, love, humour, grief, envy, pride, hate...the list goes on and on...played out over 90 minutes, a season, a lifetime. And tribal, yes. 92 mini dictatorships, some benign (ours), some not so benign, some so badly run they drive their people (fans) to the brink of revolution and beyond. And each tribe in a constant battle with one another to rule the world. And as for the tribal followers, as with any human society, some are more blood thirsty and warlike, some are more philosophical, some backward and insular, etc, etc.

And all played out in the safe bubble we call football, which after all IS only a game.

Now there's poncy for you.

Actually you raise a very valid point in among that decent post...

Without a certain amount of Tribalisiamm,there would be No Albion.