IS destroys the ancient city of Nimrud

[Nibble]

I think people know really that all Muslims are not extremist murderers who wish to enslave the west. It's just easy and less scary to say "all that lot over there are the enemy so we can get rid of them and life can go back to normal". It's les taxing and not as scary as having to see the grey areas in between. It's all from fear and anxiety. You know it, I know it and most importantly, IS know it.

 

[daveinprague]

I think people know really that all Muslims are not extremist murderers who wish to enslave the west. It's just easy and less scary to say "all that lot over there are the enemy so we can get rid of them and life can go back to normal". It's les taxing and not as scary as having to see the grey areas in between. It's all from fear and anxiety. You know it, I know it and most importantly, IS know it.

Yes, but there are wankers, even on NSC, who would rather promote it as ALL MUSLIMS...

 

[Nibble]

Yes, but there are wankers, even on NSC, who would rather promote it as ALL MUSLIMS...

Yes, I know. Hence the post.

 

[BigGully]

Do you actually ever talk to any muslims, do you have muslim friends? Or do you just have a vision of strange people wearing funny hats?

I would use the phrase moderate muslim to illustrate the vast majority of muslims my age in this country who have Westernised but yet retain elements of their faith. My best friend when I grew up was a moderate muslim and as far as I'm aware he hasn't travelled to Syria yet. He and his family drank, occasionally ate bacon and smoked a bit of pot. He and his dad were absolutely charming towards women and accepting of diversity. He prayed rarely.

Another friend I met at work a number of years ago and have maintained a relationship with. Another first generation immigrant was one of the most helpful people I have ever worked with. He married an English girl who he clearly adored, despite her treating him like shit . He drank very occassionally (I'm convinced he was faking it), smoked pot, never ate pork but went through a gambling phase. He's got an absolute wicked sense of humour and is very accepting of people of differing backgrounds.

They identify as muslims. They have some sympathy with the reasons why radicalisation occurs whilst finding the extremists themselves abhorrant. They are utterly fed up with being lumped in with psychopaths comitting atrocities in the name of their religion. Don't get me wrong I've met some ******** muslims in my life (one "small man syndrome" ex-client of mine sticks out particuarly in my memory) but no more so than people of any other faith and I've never got the feeling that them being an ******** was as a result of being a muslim.

The conflating of radicalisation with the average muslim is unhelpful to all sides, IS is a death cult that needs to be dealt with but it is my fear that their atrocities are being hijacked by the British right to mischief make. My real problem with this is it is what the likes of IS want to have the Western world fighting amongst itself.

You are both talking about a different group of people that have a non invasive Muslim association and no more, its kinda irrelevant because they do not seem to be committed to any religion, they are not moderate Muslims they are pretty much non religious, why would you define them as muslims ??

A couple of my mates went to Newman School, they are Catholic but I would never refer to them as moderate Catholics, they are just like the people you have mentioned. non religiously defined British youngsters.

My challenge/debate are about those within Muslim communities (and there are many) where they follow a strict set of religious principles in Britain in 2015, pulling a few thousand lapsed anyone's out the bag doesn't invalidate my point.

 

[spring hall convert]

You are both talking about a different group of people that have a non invasive Muslim association and no more, its kinda irrelevant because they do not seem to be committed to any religion, they are not moderate Muslims they are pretty much non religious, why would you define them as muslims ??

A couple of my mates went to Newman School, they are Catholic but I would never refer to them as moderate Catholics, they are just like the people you have mentioned. non religiously defined British youngsters.

My challenge/debate are about those within Muslim communities (and there are many) where they follow a strict set of religious principles in Britain in 2015, pulling a few thousand lapsed anyone's out the bag doesn't invalidate my point.

They don't think they're lapsed muslims. They just choose to interpret the Qur'an differently. You can't have it both ways, IS are muslims because it suits your point but people who self identify as muslims aren't because you say so.

And to use 'a few thousand' just shows you up for how clueless you are in this area.

 

[daveinprague]

You are both talking about a different group of people that have a non invasive Muslim association and no more, its kinda irrelevant because they do not seem to be committed to any religion, they are not moderate Muslims they are pretty much non religious, why would you define them as muslims ??

A couple of my mates went to Newman School, they are Catholic but I would never refer to them as moderate Catholics, they are just like the people you have mentioned. non religiously defined British youngsters.

My challenge/debate are about those within Muslim communities (and there are many) where they follow a strict set of religious principles in Britain in 2015, pulling a few thousand lapsed anyone's out the bag doesn't invalidate my point.

But if you asked your mates who were non religiously defined, do you not think they would call themselves Catholics? Even if they had no interest in the faith itself or going to church etc? I know plenty of people who call themselves Christians, but know absolutely nothing about the religion, and would only be in a church for a wedding or a funeral.

 

[BigGully]

But if you asked your mates who were non religiously defined, do you not think they would call themselves Catholics? Even if they had no interest in the faith itself or going to church etc?

No of course not, I do not think we have ever mentioned it ever TBH.

 

[Nibble]

I have a couple of mate a who I think are Muslim but I genuinely don't know, they've never told me and I've never asked, the same as any of my other friends. Religion doesn't interest us.

 

[daveinprague]

Theoretically, I am a Christian, as thats what I was brought up as, although some would say Im a jew, and my mothers side is Jewish. Its all bollocks really.

 

[daveinprague]

No of course not, I do not think we have ever mentioned it ever TBH.

Ask them. See if they answer that they are Christians, which is the point im making... many people say they are 'Christians' out of tradition. Same with many muslims I meet.

 

[Hastings gull]

Yes, but there are wankers, even on NSC, who would rather promote it as ALL MUSLIMS...

Apart from the unnecessarily insulting tone, this is dreadfully sweeping and simplistic. I don't think that I have ever seen a post where anyone would lump all muslims together and claim that they all want to wage jihad on others. There are many posts which reflect concern about muslim extremism, and its likely effect on relationships between faiths and social cohesion in general, but that is not in any way an indication that the post assumes that all muslims create havoc.

 

[BigGully]

They don't think they're lapsed muslims. They just choose to interpret the Qur'an differently. You can't have it both ways, IS are muslims because it suits your point but people who self identify as muslims aren't because you say so.

And to use 'a few thousand' just shows you up for how clueless you are in this area.

Not at all, you are having it both ways,.

You asked if I have ever spoken to a Muslim, then gave two examples of pot smoking, alcohol drinking and westernised mates that were muslims, more power to them they seem to be making personal choices without too much intervention from their perceived faith and therefore have no desire to impinge any views on others.

We might all agree that some people interperate the Koran differently, but having a spliff and a session on the booze in the name of Allah, takes some doing !!

 

[daveinprague]

Apart from the unnecessarily insulting tone, this is dreadfully sweeping and simplistic. I don't think that I have ever seen a post where anyone would lump all muslims together and claim that they all want to wage jihad on others. There are many posts which reflect concern about muslim extremism, and its likely effect on relationships between faiths and social cohesion in general, but that is not in any way an indication that the post assumes that all muslims create havoc.

Im pretty certain I have seen cases on NSC.

 

[BigGully]

I have a couple of mate a who I think are Muslim but I genuinely don't know, they've never told me and I've never asked, the same as any of my other friends. Religion doesn't interest us.

But then by default they are not religious.

 

[spring hall convert]

Not at all, you are having it both ways,.

You asked if I have ever spoken to a Muslim, then gave two examples of pot smoking, alcohol drinking and westernised mates that were muslims, more power to them they seem to be making personal choices without too much intervention from their perceived faith and therefore have no desire to impinge any views on others.

We might all agree that some people interperate the Koran differently, but having a spliff and a session on the booze takes some doing !!

I was specifically replying to you saying that moderate muslims don't exist. I'm saying that they do, in numbers well above 'a few thousand' in this country.

 

[Nibble]

But then by default they are not religious.

No idea

 

[BigGully]

I was specifically replying to you saying that moderate muslims don't exist. I'm saying that they do, in numbers well above 'a few thousand' in this country.

Ok, but it would seem silly to be vaguely defined as a member of a religious club yet have no inclination to follow the predetermined rules, seems a pointless excersise.

 

[spring hall convert]

Ok, but it would seem silly to be vaguely defined as a member of a religious club yet have no inclination to follow the predetermined rules, seems a pointless excersise.

The pre-determined rules as you see them. Others see them differently.

Anyway, rules of religious clubs change with societal conditions. They have to.

 

[Nibble]

Did anyone actually believe he was following Christianity?

 

[BigGully]

The pre-determined rules as you see them. Others see them differently.

Anyway, rules of religious clubs change with societal conditions. They have to.

I had thought that the quran had never updated or changed it's scripture and I suspect it isnt the quickest to change their predetermined rules.

My secondary modern in the 70's rinsed me of any religious aspiration and I remain thankful.