IS destroys the ancient city of Nimrud

[Tom Bombadil]

Snoop Dogg

I think he claims to be rastafarian now.

 

[spring hall convert]

Snoop Dogg

Doesn't fit the traditional profile of a muslim.

 

[spring hall convert]

Mike Tyson

obviously ignoring the rape and eating ears part

Here's the proof. He was such a nice young man before he was radicalised.

 

[Nibble]

A friend and I saw Snoop Dogg by the Jubilee library a couple of years ago, alighting from his tour bus. Boggles the mind.

 

[Megazone]

Well this thread has all of a sudden become a lot more positive.

Snoop Dogg is a Brighton fan, don't ya know

We won the play-offs in that shirt.

You only rap when you're winning!

 

[One Love]

Far more brilliant and enlightened minds than yours have held beliefs.

There's a more brilliant and enlightened mind than Tubby-McFat-Fuc!!! Surely not!

 

[looney]

My favourite is people who bring the westboro church into it. Like its being funded by billions of Petrodollars too. And supported by countless people.

About 40, half who are related to the late apostate phelps. I know a couple of people who are local to them in Kentucky, they are hated with a passion. ********s being able to find a multitude of ways to piss people off.

Dont forget the KKK, theyve started padding out WBC with them as apparently the KKK is a church. Will be the WI next

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

As he was a priest, I would imagine he believed the fairy tale.
Academic study, and a faith in a 'story', that you were brainwashed into believing as you grew up, are two different things.

You miss the point.

For someone to have a critical scientific mind as his you simply won't just believe. You will ponder, you will spend much time deep in thought and contemplation.

The suggestion that anyone with a relgious belief never contemplates their own belief before deciding upon an answer is quite simply stupid.

Anyone who trots out the "brainwashed" line simply proves they have zero understanding of how a person can come to hold a belief in something.

 

[daveinprague]

You miss the point.

For someone to have a critical scientific mind as his you simply won't just believe. You will ponder, you will spend much time deep in thought and contemplation.

The suggestion that anyone with a relgious belief never contemplates their own belief before deciding upon an answer is quite simply stupid.

Anyone who trots out the "brainwashed" line simply proves they have zero understanding of how a person can come to hold a belief in something.

If you dumped a bunch of children on an island, and taught them all their lives that Rupert the Bear was god, they would believe it. Its brainwashing. The same as kids growing up around the world in different religious spheres. They believe what they are taught by their parents, its nothing to do with faith, or even religion. Sorry, I consider it brainwashing mate.

 

[n1 gull]

If you dumped a bunch of children on an island, and taught them all their lives that Rupert the Bear was god, they would believe it. Its brainwashing. The same as kids growing up around the world in different religious spheres. They believe what they are taught by their parents, its nothing to do with faith, or even religion. Sorry, I consider it brainwashing mate.

Can't argue with any of this

 

[Nibble]

If you dumped a bunch of children on an island, and taught them all their lives that Rupert the Bear was god, they would believe it. Its brainwashing. The same as kids growing up around the world in different religious spheres. They believe what they are taught by their parents, its nothing to do with faith, or even religion. Sorry, I consider it brainwashing mate.

This. Spot on.

 

[BigGully]

If you dumped a bunch of children on an island, and taught them all their lives that Rupert the Bear was god, they would believe it. Its brainwashing. The same as kids growing up around the world in different religious spheres. They believe what they are taught by their parents, its nothing to do with faith, or even religion. Sorry, I consider it brainwashing mate.

I agree, but perhaps where we diverge is that not all fairytales/religions are equal.

Christianity in the main has evolved and modernised to become less homophobic more equal and less invasive, its become quaintly benign with very few moral or supernatural penalties should you choose to walk away from it, I sometimes feel that the faith is perhaps followed rather than believed, it doesnt seem to hold too many grudges or feelings of injustice.

Islam seems different, it remains shockingly homophobic, unequal and male dominated with very little modernising or appreciation of its western environment, it seems to override their life which for any religion is dangerous.

I can never understand why or whom coined the phrase 'moderate Muslim', to somehow convince me that we are the same just the other is religious.

Its odd for me that anyone who prays 5 times a day, holds quite intolerant views, perhaps modifies his/her clothing, facial hair and food and drink choices ( and a myriad of other stuff ) whilst being called moderate seems an inaccurate description, if it was any Christian or other doing something similar we might call them a religious crank without sanction.

 

[jimbob5]

Maybe not in practice, but in theory, Christianity seems to a form of Utopia which we should strive for based on such things as love, forgiveness, generosity and peace. The people with such faith seem to be dwindling. The Islam faith, not unlike the Christian faith in medieval times is not unified. It seems to be more about control and punishment. It is probably not too dissimilar to how Christianity was centuries ago. However it is growing rapidly.

 

[daveinprague]

I agree, but perhaps where we diverge is that not all fairytales/religions are equal.

Christianity in the main has evolved and modernised to become less homophobic more equal and less invasive, its become quaintly benign with very few moral or supernatural penalties should you choose to walk away from it, I sometimes feel that the faith is perhaps followed rather than believed, it doesnt seem to hold too many grudges or feelings of injustice.

Islam seems different, it remains shockingly homophobic, unequal and male dominated with very little modernising or appreciation of its western environment, it seems to override their life which for any religion is dangerous.

I can never understand why or whom coined the phrase 'moderate Muslim', to somehow convince me that we are the same just the other is religious.

Its odd for me that anyone who prays 5 times a day, holds quite intolerant views, perhaps modifies his/her clothing, facial hair and food and drink choices ( and a myriad of other stuff ) whilst being called moderate seems an inaccurate description, if it was any Christian or other doing something similar we might call them a religious crank without sanction.

Well, this is what people in the communities have been taught whilst growing up. Having said that, I find Islam is different in a lot of countries, from the fundamental sunni wahhabis.
Its really what youre used to I think. Ive seen many woman interviewed about the veil and hijab...asked if they were oppressed. Ive not heard one say they were oppressed, and mostly saying they feel more comfortable dressed that way.
How we were brought up in the west, is different from how many people grew up around the world. You cant keep comparing our (not exactly perfect world) with other peoples not exactly perfect worlds. Its all 'taught' behaviour.

 

[BigGully]

Well, this is what people in the communities have been taught whilst growing up. Having said that, I find Islam is different in a lot of countries, from the fundamental sunni wahhabis.
Its really what youre used to I think. Ive seen many woman interviewed about the veil and hijab...asked if they were oppressed. Ive not heard one say they were oppressed, and mostly saying they feel more comfortable dressed that way.
How we were brought up in the west, is different from how many people grew up around the world. You cant keep comparing our (not exactly perfect world) with other peoples not exactly perfect worlds. Its all 'taught' behaviour.

You must compare if they have come to settle here in the West which has a history of modernising and liberalism, it has been a long hard fight for equal rights etc, to then have any intolerant religion ( well most are aren't they ) to gate crash our civilisation it needn't be Muslims I just wouldn't want any communities that are defined be their religion to settle here and demand that we conform to their religious doctrine, whether in their own communities or anywhere else.

 

[daveinprague]

You must compare if they have come to settle here in the West which has a history of modernising and liberalism, it has been a long hard fight for equal rights etc, to then have any intolerant religion ( well most are aren't they ) to gate crash our civilisation it needn't be Muslims I just wouldn't want any communities that are defined be their religion to settle here and demand that we conform to their religious doctrine, whether in their own communities or anywhere else.

I understand what you are saying, but not many actually ask us to conform to their religion. The nutjobs do. Most dont. My GF hasnt tried to convert me, or anybody else. Had plenty of opportunity (and reason) to kill me for not being a muslim,and coming from a jewish background on my mothers side. None of her friends or family have either. I think you mean the vocal minority. You hear of many cases of this, but when you look into the actual issue, its completely different.
I think all religion is a lot of nonsense. I do think however, that if people want to pray to a certain god, or deity, they should be protected in doinig so.

 

[BigGully]

I understand what you are saying, but not many actually ask us to conform to their religion. The nutjobs do. Most dont. My GF hasnt tried to convert me, or anybody else. Had plenty of opportunity (and reason) to kill me for not being a muslim,and coming from a jewish background on my mothers side. None of her friends or family have either. I think you mean the vocal minority. You hear of many cases of this, but when you look into the actual issue, its completely different.
I think all religion is a lot of nonsense. I do think however, that if people want to pray to a certain god, or deity, they should be protected in doinig so.

Would you say that your girlfriend is a lapsed Muslim or does she lead her life in a muslim way (whatever that is) ?

 

[daveinprague]

Would you say that your girlfriend is a lapsed Muslim or does she lead her life in a muslim way (whatever that is) ?

I think she is like most muslims...in name only...same as most Christians have nothing to do with the church, but still consider themselves Christians. Think its prob more of a cultural/traditional thing from her country, the same as Christians in the UK. She doesnt go to mosque for example, but how many British 'Christians' step foot in a church.
Ive seen wedding videos from her country that seem to include belly dancers, and liberal quantities of vodka. So, looks as though there are different levels .

 

[spring hall convert]

I can never understand why or whom coined the phrase 'moderate Muslim', to somehow convince me that we are the same just the other is religious.

Do you actually ever talk to any muslims, do you have muslim friends? Or do you just have a vision of strange people wearing funny hats?

I would use the phrase moderate muslim to illustrate the vast majority of muslims my age in this country who have Westernised but yet retain elements of their faith. My best friend when I grew up was a moderate muslim and as far as I'm aware he hasn't travelled to Syria yet. He and his family drank, occasionally ate bacon and smoked a bit of pot. He and his dad were absolutely charming towards women and accepting of diversity. He prayed rarely.

Another friend I met at work a number of years ago and have maintained a relationship with. Another first generation immigrant was one of the most helpful people I have ever worked with. He married an English girl who he clearly adored, despite her treating him like shit . He drank very occassionally (I'm convinced he was faking it), smoked pot, never ate pork but went through a gambling phase. He's got an absolute wicked sense of humour and is very accepting of people of differing backgrounds.

They identify as muslims. They have some sympathy with the reasons why radicalisation occurs whilst finding the extremists themselves abhorrant. They are utterly fed up with being lumped in with psychopaths comitting atrocities in the name of their religion. Don't get me wrong I've met some ******** muslims in my life (one "small man syndrome" ex-client of mine sticks out particuarly in my memory) but no more so than people of any other faith and I've never got the feeling that them being an ******** was as a result of being a muslim.

The conflating of radicalisation with the average muslim is unhelpful to all sides, IS is a death cult that needs to be dealt with but it is my fear that their atrocities are being hijacked by the British right to mischief make. My real problem with this is it is what the likes of IS want to have the Western world fighting amongst itself.

 

[beorhthelm]

Islam seems different, it remains shockingly homophobic, unequal and male dominated with very little modernising or appreciation of its western environment, it seems to override their life which for any religion is dangerous.

I can never understand why or whom coined the phrase 'moderate Muslim', to somehow convince me that we are the same just the other is religious.

just for balance, i think you've overlooked a large groups that have beliefs much in line with what you note happened to Christianity. no praying 5 times a day, if they do don't observe the dress code etc. then there's the "CofE" muslims as i call them, who probably haven't been to a mosque for months or years but identify as Muslim as a faith. so i think moderate muslim is a perfectly reasonable phrase, covering a wide set of sub groups that aren't going jihad on you i or anyone, though it is probably misused when applied to devoted followers.