IS destroys the ancient city of Nimrud

[Mattywerewolf]

Off course it has. It's done in the name of religion. You can pretend all you want that it has nothing to do with Muslims, but unfortunately for them, it is being done in their name, like it or not. You don't see many atheists, Christians or Jews going over to fight with them do you?

No pretence..Anyone who kills innocent people and claims to act in the name of a religion is clearly deluded and unfortunately there are dogmatic people that can't see past this.

 

[GingerBeerMan]

What do you think my view is on an average Muslim family and why would you think I might think of them as bad people ?

This is the exact claptrap that limits any serious debate, it has certainly hindered our own political classes when confronted with the radicalisation of young British Muslims in recent years, to challenge doesnt mean you have some default position of prejudice against anyone.

Its perfectly clear that not all Muslims have an urge to join IS and behead children, but it is certainly clear that some within the religion have an unhealthy desire of following their religion ahead of anything the west has to offer, it might include sharia law, it might be discriminating against women, homophobia, a likely obstacle to integrate and yes a few jump on a plane to join the brutal regime which is IS, it is quite reasonable to acknowledge and discuss it without then being asked 'what do you want then ? 'ban Muslims, ban the religion' !!!

I thought we had moved on from such tiresome responses.

You started by asking what religion IS are, implying they are Muslim and therefore we should be wary of Muslims. Why else would you bring their religion into it? They're doing it in the name of a religion, it doesn't tarnish the name of the whole religion. Most Muslims despise IS and the bad name they bring to their religion.

As for putting a limit to serious debate, what kind of debate would you like? We all know IS are monsters, that they need to be wiped out. There is no debate, the only people that turn it into a debate are the ones that bring religion into it. We kill IS whether they are Christian, Muslim, Atheist or whatever.

So I'll ask for a second time: What is the point you're trying to get across by bringing the religion of IS into the conversation?

 

[Nibble]

If we could get over the idea that they are acting in the name of Islam and focus on what they are actually doing, we could make some headway into neutralising them.

 

[BigGully]

You started by asking what religion IS are, implying they are Muslim and therefore we should be wary of Muslims. Why else would you bring their religion into it? They're doing it in the name of a religion, it doesn't tarnish the name of the whole religion. Most Muslims despise IS and the bad name they bring to their religion.

As for putting a limit to serious debate, what kind of debate would you like? We all know IS are monsters, that they need to be wiped out. There is no debate, the only people that turn it into a debate are the ones that bring religion into it. We kill IS whether they are Christian, Muslim, Atheist or whatever.

So I'll ask for a second time: What is the point you're trying to get across by bringing the religion of IS into the conversation?

I havent got a clue what you are talking about, none !!!

You wanted to negate the religious aspect by claiming Catholic paedophile priest is somehow comparable to IS and its followers, you were just trying to say 'not all Muslims' blah blah blah.

To not accept a Islamic aspect to IS is being delusional.

 

[beorhthelm]

If we could get over the idea that they are acting in the name of Islam and focus on what they are actually doing, we could make some headway into neutralising them.

you cannot ignore the religion if that their whole ideology is based on religion and their interpretation of it. the reason they are destroying ancient cities is because their religion tells them they are heathen and need to be expunged for satisfaction of their god. the reason they kill or enslave other Muslims is because they are not following the correct path. ISIL want to establish a caliphate, a religious state, modelling on their impression of how a strict Muslim state should run.

 

[Nibble]

I havent got a clue what you are talking about, none !!!

You wanted to negate the religious aspect by claiming Catholic paedophile priest is somehow comparable to IS and its followers, you were just trying to say 'not all Muslims' blah blah blah.

To not accept a Islamic aspect to IS is being delusional.

We do have to accept that they are using Islam as an excuse to justify their attempt at ruling over nations but it's not the driving force behind it. What we have in IS is a group of people that have let their most basic instincts take over. Rape, murder, domination of land and societies. It's been seen throughout history by various fanatics, sometimes it is under the cover of political ideals, sometimes it's religion. In order to tackle the problem we have to almost disregard the banner they are fighting under and concentrate on their actions and goals. Yes, they say their "goal" is to convert the world to "Islam". I don't believe it is, that's attempted justification and a recruiting tool. It's a group of people wanting to dominate others for their own selfish gain.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

No pretence..Anyone who kills innocent people and claims to act in the name of a religion is clearly deluded and unfortunately there are dogmatic people that can't see past this.

It is ABSOLUTELY about Religion. It is about a brutal and deluded following of Allah and passages in the Quran, which does include quite a lot about lopping off the heads of disbelievers the Kuffar, me and you. I assume you are a Kuffar and an Infidel ?

 

[NooBHA]

The Sun should do a special offer on free flights to IS territory, then blow the planes up on the tarmac.

And who is gonna fly the planes in knowing they are gonna get bombed ? We could have got Andreas Lubitz to do it because he was obviously a nutter as well but we don't even have that option.

As for the Destruction of the Artifacts by IS.................Well if you look at pictures of Dresden 1945 I think you will find we did a lot worse. They live with their shame of it as we do. I don't have a solution to these things. I keep trying to find one in my mind but it is impossible.

 

[Nibble]

Or to put it another way. Who gives a shit whether they're doing it for religion or not, it's their actions they should be judged on and they are no different to any other group of unevolved loons who have tried to force their will on others. And they should be treated as such.

 

[symyjym]

And who is gonna fly the planes in knowing they are gonna get bombed ?

I didn't say anything about flying them, just get the ones who want to go out there to board the plane and then blow it up on the tarmac. No need for pilots for this cunning plan

 

[Dave the OAP]

you cannot ignore the religion if that their whole ideology is based on religion and their interpretation of it. the reason they are destroying ancient cities is because their religion tells them they are heathen and need to be expunged for satisfaction of their god. the reason they kill or enslave other Muslims is because they are not following the correct path. ISIL want to establish a caliphate, a religious state, modelling on their impression of how a strict Muslim state should run.

Have you ever tried to talk to someone who has strong religious beliefs. As part of my course we spoke to some guy on the course about ancient Assyrians and Persians that we were studying at the time and he wouldn't have it that these civilisations were around thousands of years before a Mohammed or Jesus ever appeared. He suggested it was all lies and those writing about it were blasphemous......he was asked to leave the course soon after he started to become abusive to fellow students.

Wouldn't surprise me is the prick is now somewhere in the Middle East blowing up treasures that are the property of the world, not some buch of nutters

 

[NooBHA]

I didn't say anything about flying them, just get the ones who want to go out there to board the plane and then blow it up on the tarmac. No need for pilots for this cunning plan

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL ................................................THey could use the runway at Bournemouth

 

[Mattywerewolf]

It is ABSOLUTELY about Religion. It is about a brutal and deluded following of Allah and passages in the Quran, which does include quite a lot about lopping off the heads of disbelievers the Kuffar, me and you. I assume you are a Kuffar and an Infidel

The Muslim faith does not support the killing of innocent people as evidenced by the Millions of law abiding Muslims worldwide. I do acknowledge that the Muslim leaders share some responsibility to correctly educate their misguided extremists, but that does not mean that IS is a religious organisation. Rather an organisation that in a delusional way uses religion to justify unlawful acts.

 

[BigGully]

We do have to accept that they are using Islam as an excuse to justify their attempt at ruling over nations but it's not the driving force behind it. What we have in IS is a group of people that have let their most basic instincts take over. Rape, murder, domination of land and societies. It's been seen throughout history by various fanatics, sometimes it is under the cover of political ideals, sometimes it's religion. In order to tackle the problem we have to almost disregard the banner they are fighting under and concentrate on their actions and goals. Yes, they say their "goal" is to convert the world to "Islam". I don't believe it is, that's attempted justification and a recruiting tool. It's a group of people wanting to dominate others for their own selfish gain.

Not having that Nibble ......

IS is the extreme position of I suspect many other Islamist groups throughout the region, it must be unimaginable for anything to take place without reference to Islam, right now I bet there are other more 'moderate' groups that just have the odd stoning to death and amputation in the name of Allah, take your pick to which one is the lesser of a dozen evils.

But to somehow remove any religious aspect to the motives of any group out there is non starter.

 

[yxee]

The Muslim faith does not support the killing of innocent people as evidenced by the Millions of law abiding Muslims worldwide.

This might be an elephant in the room, but it does kind of urge people to kill non-believers in their holy book... the fact that a large majority are sensible enough to ignore it doesn't mean it's not there.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Apart from the cultural barbarity of this act they've destroyed one income stream left to these people, and that's tourism.

 

[The Spanish]

Have you ever tried to talk to someone who has strong religious beliefs. As part of my course we spoke to some guy on the course about ancient Assyrians and Persians that we were studying at the time and he wouldn't have it that these civilisations were around thousands of years before a Mohammed or Jesus ever appeared. He suggested it was all lies and those writing about it were blasphemous......he was asked to leave the course soon after he started to become abusive to fellow students.

Wouldn't surprise me is the prick is now somewhere in the Middle East blowing up treasures that are the property of the world, not some buch of nutters

This is a very good point we often miss. In our culture we really aren't exposed to significant numbers of people with strong religious beliefs on a day to day basis, so often find it hard to rationalise.

Please note if anyone wishes to build their part up and as part of multi culti Britain let us know they are, then knock yourself out. If you are great, but it's not the norm in Sussex or the provincial South east, be honest.

 

[Nibble]

Not having that Nibble ......

IS is the extreme position of I suspect many other Islamist groups throughout the region, it must be unimaginable for anything to take place without reference to Islam, right now I bet there are other more 'moderate' groups that just have the odd stoning to death and amputation in the name of Allah, take your pick to which one is the lesser of a dozen evils.

But to somehow remove any religious aspect to the motives of any group out there is non starter.

I take your point. There is definitely a religious aspect. Do We have to ignore that and concentrate on their actions, regardless of motive? Just thinking from a solution aspect.

 

[Superphil]

The Muslim faith does not support the killing of innocent people as evidenced by the Millions of law abiding Muslims worldwide..

I think it does in their holy book, doesn't it?

Quran 8:12 reads, “When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.”

And a few more excerpts from that peace loving book:


Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them(2:191)
Make war on the infidels living in your neighboorhood (9:123)
When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them (9:5)
Kill the Jews and the Christians if they do not convert to Islam or refuse to pay Jizya tax (9:29)
Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable (3:85)
The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them (9:30)
Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticise Islam. (5:33)
The infidels are unclean; do not let them into a mosque (9:28)
Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies (22:19)
Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them (47:4)
The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them (8:65)
Muslims must not take the infidels as friends (3:28)
Terrorise and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur’an (8:12)
Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorise the infidels (8:60)

 

[Bwian]

I think it does in their holy book, doesn't it?

Quran 8:12 reads, “When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.”

And a few more excerpts from that peace loving book:


Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them(2:191)
Make war on the infidels living in your neighboorhood (9:123)
When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them (9:5)
Kill the Jews and the Christians if they do not convert to Islam or refuse to pay Jizya tax (9:29)
Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable (3:85)
The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them (9:30)
Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticise Islam. (5:33)
The infidels are unclean; do not let them into a mosque (9:28)
Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies (22:19)
Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them (47:4)
The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them (8:65)
Muslims must not take the infidels as friends (3:28)
Terrorise and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur’an (8:12)
Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorise the infidels (8:60)

I'm guessing there's no "Turn the other cheek" ?