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Is Britain a better place since 1997?

Is Britain a better place since 1997?


  • Total voters
    123


Spiros

Well-known member
Jul 9, 2003
2,376
Too far from the sun
Comparisons to 1997:
Hospital waiting times down
Unemployment down
Household Disposable Income up
School class average size down
Life expectancy up

So, going back to the original question, I'd say yes, Britain is better than in 1997

:)
Some other comparisons:
income tax/NI up
pension expectations down
council tax severely up
kids in west sussex can no longer have hot school meals
West Sussex about to go from 3 hospitals with A&E to one

What the Blair government have consistently done is shaft the south of England so that they can give more money to the scots, welsh and northerners. The scots get a subsidy of £1,500 per year per person to pay for devolution. This has come from our higher taxes and the disproportionately higher council taxes we pay in the south. In scotland they get free university tuition and now free prescriptions while in West Sussex we can't afford to keep our current hospitals open. And to cap it all we're now going to get a jock PM. How come no-one ever campaigns for independence for England?
 




algie

The moaning of life
Jan 8, 2006
14,713
In rehab
Some other comparisons:
income tax/NI up
pension expectations down
council tax severely up
kids in west sussex can no longer have hot school meals
West Sussex about to go from 3 hospitals with A&E to one

What the Blair government have consistently done is shaft the south of England so that they can give more money to the scots, welsh and northerners. The scots get a subsidy of £1,500 per year per person to pay for devolution. This has come from our higher taxes and the disproportionately higher council taxes we pay in the south. In scotland they get free university tuition and now free prescriptions while in West Sussex we can't afford to keep our current hospitals open. And to cap it all we're now going to get a jock PM. How come no-one ever campaigns for independence for England?

The best post so far on this debate.100% correct:clap:
 




Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
72,370
What the Blair government have consistently done is shaft the south of England so that they can give more money to the scots, welsh and northerners. The scots get a subsidy of £1,500 per year per person to pay for devolution. This has come from our higher taxes and the disproportionately higher council taxes we pay in the south. In scotland they get free university tuition and now free prescriptions while in West Sussex we can't afford to keep our current hospitals open. And to cap it all we're now going to get a jock PM. How come no-one ever campaigns for independence for England?


Just give Scotland the North Sea oil money back then, and we'll call it quits :thumbsup:
 


Gully

Monkey in a seagull suit.
Apr 24, 2004
16,812
Way out west
However, if we had continued with the last Tory administration instead of switching to New Labour in 97 then I think things would now be decidely worse.
 




Barrel of Fun

Abort, retry, fail
However, if we had continued with the last Tory administration instead of switching to New Labour in 97 then I think things would now be decidely worse.


I am not so sure about that. Things were on the up - difficult to say though, what may have happened. Would we be in Iraq with the Tories? They backed the war, but due to mis-information from the Labour Party.
 


Gully

Monkey in a seagull suit.
Apr 24, 2004
16,812
Way out west
We would probably have lower taxation, that seems to be the way with the Tories, but it comes at a cost...poorer public services. The problem is that their traditional vote usually back them to the hilt on that policy as they tend to be those who either don't rely on public services or have already opted out of them.
 


algie

The moaning of life
Jan 8, 2006
14,713
In rehab
However, if we had continued with the last Tory administration instead of switching to New Labour in 97 then I think things would now be decidely worse.


Spoken like a true labour supporter
 




DTES

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
6,022
London
Some other comparisons:
income tax/NI up
council tax severely up

algie said:
The best post so far on this debate.100% correct

FFS!!! :thud:

Do you people actually think before you post? Do you read what you're quoting before you reply to it? Seriously?!

Let me repeat, in the hope that this time it will sink in: Household Disposable Income is up more than inflation. Do you understand what this means?

Your rant about taxes can only possibly be that you object to the Government taking more off you, leaving you with less to take home. But that is bollocks! Again, HDI is UP.

This means that even after you account for inflation, and yes, even after these evil taxes you worry about, we are STILL taking more money home. So what if taxes are up?! You're still taking more money home!

This of course, doesn't even mention the fact that you haven't got a problem with the improvements in hospital waiting times or class sizes. Does that mean you approve of them? Do you expect them to come for free? How are you possibly not happy that even after tax, you still take more home, and improvements are still made?
 
Last edited:


Yorkie

Sussex born and bred
Jul 5, 2003
32,367
dahn sarf
Let me repeat, in the hope that this time it will sink in: Household Disposable Income is up more than inflation. Do you understand what this means?


This means that even after you account for inflation, and yes, even after these evil taxes you worry about, we are STILL taking more money home. So what if taxes are up?! You're still taking more money home!

Are you absolutely sure of that? Is there some reference link to that? Council tax has more than doubled in the last 10 years. Even when we take home the pay then gas and electricity prices are three times the price of 10 years ago.
 


Barrel of Fun

Abort, retry, fail
A bitter failure of this current govt. is that it has not got strict on those that exploit the housing market and raise tax on buy-to-let properties. There is a whole generation that are struggling/unable to get on the property ladder which will have ramifications. People are stretching themselves and recent interest rate rises are a cause for concern. There has been a sharp increase in repossessions and negative equity.
 




DJ Leon

New member
Aug 30, 2003
3,446
Hassocks
Taxes go up. We all know this as fact of life. If you cite this as a reason that we're not better off (not necessarily financially) than 10 years ago, doesn't that mean that we never can be? Where does that leave the debate?
 


Hatterlovesbrighton

something clever
Jul 28, 2003
4,543
Not Luton! Thank God
Are you absolutely sure of that? Is there some reference link to that? Council tax has more than doubled in the last 10 years. Even when we take home the pay then gas and electricity prices are three times the price of 10 years ago.


Go here - http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl...ml/default.stm and change the graph to Householdd Disposable Income.

The increases in council tax and gas don't compare to the decreases in food and clothing costs. It costs less to fully cloth a child than it did 20 years ago. People happily shell out on luxuries such as Sattelite TV, Mobile Phones and ipods.
 


Hatterlovesbrighton

something clever
Jul 28, 2003
4,543
Not Luton! Thank God
A bitter failure of this current govt. is that it has not got strict on those that exploit the housing market and raise tax on buy-to-let properties. There is a whole generation that are struggling/unable to get on the property ladder which will have ramifications. People are stretching themselves and recent interest rate rises are a cause for concern. There has been a sharp increase in repossessions and negative equity.

I agree. The Party that woucld crack down on buy to let investors would get my vote.

I agree on repossesions, but negative equity? Where is the housemarket falling?
 




Barrel of Fun

Abort, retry, fail
I agree. The Party that woucld crack down on buy to let investors would get my vote.

I agree on repossesions, but negative equity? Where is the housemarket falling?

Sorry - wasn't thinking. I meant to write people unable to meet their loan repayments. :dunce: You can tell I work in the housing industry!

It has gone on for far too long - The wealth gap is huge. Many, many people are struggling. Labour are building fewer new homes than the last Government, according to various sources. Why is that?
 


algie

The moaning of life
Jan 8, 2006
14,713
In rehab
FFS!!! :thud:

Do you people actually think before you post? Do you read what you're quoting before you reply to it? Seriously?!

Let me repeat, in the hope that this time it will sink in: Household Disposable Income is up more than inflation. Do you understand what this means?

Your rant about taxes can only possibly be that you object to the Government taking more off you, leaving you with less to take home. But that is bollocks! Again, HDI is UP.

This means that even after you account for inflation, and yes, even after these evil taxes you worry about, we are STILL taking more money home. So what if taxes are up?! You're still taking more money home!

This of course, doesn't even mention the fact that you haven't got a problem with the improvements in hospital waiting times or class sizes. Does that mean you approve of them? Do you expect them to come for free? How are you possibly not happy that even after tax, you still take more home, and improvements are still made?


What utter bollox you talk:thud:

You think we are better off then ten years ago? So why can't people get on the property ladder? As someone else mentioned,rocketing council tax rises,water,gas and electricity has risen sharply,high fuel prices,car road tax.Longer waiting times for hospital ops and council homes.The price of beer and fags are bloody stupid.Not to mention us having open boarders which has driven down hgv drivers wages.
I take it you still live at home with mum?
 


Yorkie

Sussex born and bred
Jul 5, 2003
32,367
dahn sarf
Go here - http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl...ml/default.stm and change the graph to Householdd Disposable Income.

The increases in council tax and gas don't compare to the decreases in food and clothing costs. It costs less to fully cloth a child than it did 20 years ago. People happily shell out on luxuries such as Sattelite TV, Mobile Phones and ipods.

Page not found.
Food prices have dropped for 'instant foods' but not fresh food. I used to be able to afford a joint on a Sunday.
My children have grown up so I don't have to clothe them any more. My mobile phone was a present and I don't have an ipod.
We do go to football and have satellite tv.
I am actually earning over 2K a year less than I was in 1997.
 


Hatterlovesbrighton

something clever
Jul 28, 2003
4,543
Not Luton! Thank God




Barrel of Fun

Abort, retry, fail
I don't think the entire blame for fuel rises can be levied at the govt. can it? The sooner prices of attaining energy from renewable renewable sources decreases, then we can start to move forward on that front.
 


Hatterlovesbrighton

something clever
Jul 28, 2003
4,543
Not Luton! Thank God
What utter bollox you talk:thud:

You think we are better off then ten years ago? So why can't people get on the property ladder? As someone else mentioned,rocketing council tax rises,water,gas and electricity has risen sharply,high fuel prices,car road tax.Longer waiting times for hospital ops and council homes.The price of beer and fags are bloody stupid.Not to mention us having open boarders which has driven down hgv drivers wages.
I take it you still live at home with mum?

Go here http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/uk_politics/07/blair_graphs/html/default.stm and look at the figures for Household Disposable Income and hospital waiting times.

Fags deserve to be high and must have something to do with the cut in the people smoking, which in the long run will save the NHS (and therefore us) money. Beer prices might be higher in the pubs but they seem to be getting cheaper in the supermarkets (50 bottles of becks last week for £16)


The thing you have got right is the property ladder. That's more a case of the Government not doing enough rather than Government doing things wrong.
 


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