Is Blair, Thatcher in disguise

[Buzzer]

He has the courage to go against his own party if he feels strongly enough about an issue. Gone are the days of high unemployment and high inflation, he's lowered crime and has introduced a minimum wage.. I'm not justifing an illegal war, just trying to point out it wasn't all bad. Its up to you whether you think he was mislead into Iraq or he lied.

Hitler got rid of high unemployment and high inflation too. He lowered crime and went against members of his own party (Ernst Rohm et al) and brought in incentives for women to have children to help make Germany's economy strong. I'm not justifying the invasion of Poland, just trying to point out he wasn't all bad.....

 

[Biscuit]

OK I'm just trying to see both sides of the story. I think its foolish to just hate him outright.. comparing him to Hitler is a tab harsh!


Superphill.. Government stats do not exactly add up the Police ones, so its who you believe!

 

[Simster]

And I think you'll find high unemployement and high inflation went out under Major when he ditched that Lamont CRETIN and installed Ken Clarke as chancellor.

 

[Blackadder]

And I think you'll find high unemployement and high inflation went out under Major when he ditched that Lamont CRETIN and installed Ken Clarke as chancellor.

Agreed. I always though that KC was the acceptable face of Toryism. If they'd elected him as leader they would have done better in the Polls. They won't elect him, of course, because he doesn't hate europe!

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

But what i am trying to say at all is that he untrustworthy, but an actor of high regard.

Which is what his old head master said about him. His memory was that he was a very good actor. When you apply that when you see him on the box - it all makes a bit more sense.

 

[Mr C]

Tony Blair (and most of New Labour) is one of the most (if not THE most) corrupt, sleazy, slimy, arrogant, lying politicians this country has ever seen. I don't just mean now, I mean since 1997 (and probably before).

Just a thought, like.

 

[colinpants]

There is no such thing as society

 

[London Calling]

He has the courage to go against his own party if he feels strongly enough about an issue. Gone are the days of high unemployment and high inflation, he's lowered crime and has introduced a minimum wage.. I'm not justifing an illegal war, just trying to point out it wasn't all bad. Its up to you whether you think he was mislead into Iraq or he lied.

If you live in one of the more acutely deprived areas of the UK and I mean London's East End, Newcastle west End, Glasgow, the Valleys in Wales.

You have a choice, under Blair, a dead end job on a minimum wage

or a job that will get you dead in wars that no one supports or understands why we are there. Squaddies must ask, why us?

LC

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

I'm not justifing an illegal war, just trying to point out it wasn't all bad. Its up to you whether you think he was mislead into Iraq or he lied.

That is a new one - are you suggesting that he has a defence in that HE was misled ........................................

 

[Superphil]

OK I'm just trying to see both sides of the story. I think its foolish to just hate him outright.. comparing him to Hitler is a tab harsh!


Superphill.. Government stats do not exactly add up the Police ones, so its who you believe!

I applaud your efforts to see both sides of the story. The reason I laugh so much about crime figures, is because yes, I do chose to believe the figures that say crime is up, but it is all around us. I cannot remember a time in my life (OK only 41 years) when there was more crime.

Everyone has a story to tell. Violence, drug dealing, robbery, fraud, all reported every day, locally and UK wide. I have many friends who have been victims.
I see it on the streets, when I'm working in London, or just out and about in Sussex. People are getting mugged for a £100 iPod, or a mobile phone that you can get for free from a phone shop.

Burglaries around where I live are at an all time high, so I just don't believe the government has lowered crime, in fact I think their actions have caused it to rise drastically. That's what I think, it's my opinion.

Speaking to members of the police, they don't want to arrest most of the little shites causing vandalism, anti social behaviour etc, because the administration they have to do means they will be off the street, and therefore not providing a visual deterant.

 

[Tubby Mondays]

Hitler got rid of high unemployment and high inflation too. He lowered crime and went against members of his own party (Ernst Rohm et al) and brought in incentives for women to have children to help make Germany's economy strong. I'm not justifying the invasion of Poland, just trying to point out he wasn't all bad.....

And he had them all dressed nicley and marching in straight lines.

 

[NMH]

Not so fast;

The Falklands war was NOT 'about oil' - it was about standing up for our holdings and protectorates. If any-old country can decide to just walk in and take over - no matter how small a piece of British soil - and we do NOTHING bout it.... what precedent does that confirm, for people who trust us to protect them? No no, oil has NOTHING to do with it!

Much as I harbour disdain for Thatcher, the immediate military response to Argentina was both necessary, and commendable.

I'm afraid that, although I too am not happy with our war in Iraq, it has been necessitated by George Bush Snr., and going back 15 years or more, to the bolstering of a square regime in a round world.
The USA contrived to restrain USSR by supplying Afghanistan against them - and that has turned around to bite America in the 'ass' because they didn't do enough about civilising the people they had armed.
In coweing the Amir of Kuwait, Saddam was a tool, but again a ferrel one to use. It worked to have him fight Iran when they were run by total zealots, but he was not an acceptable 'puppet' to toy with. Once he was Desert Stormed into submission, he sought economical ways to hurt the US just as he had been hurt economically and not supported by a supposedly powerful ally.

Unfortunately, the best laid plans of mice and America have 'gang awry', and the bubbling brew has shown that it can spit a long way (9/11, US embassies in Africa, US Cole etc). The Arabs love to point to Israel and religion as a tool to stir general ire from all Muslim nations - and unfortunately it works (and Israel are not known to use much guile in the way they fight fire with fire, so that helps to stir things even more).

US foreign policy has been deeply flawed, and Bush jnr. is a very crap head of state to be in office right now too - underestimating the whole affair, grandstanding cowboy-style, and saying totally the wrong things. However, letting the situation go full-tilt into the hands of zealots, warmongers and mental extremists would be a categorical disaster of World proportions.

A lot rests on Iraq being stabilised, and imho their neighbours would do well to politically and democratically be supportive and involved - rather than allow or assist insurgents.
Pulling out now, might look fine and dandy from a 'cosmetic' p.o.v., on the surface - but the undercurrent that wants to take power and control there would not make for a World of peace and stability!

It's just not as simple as we would like it to be, and the normal Iraqi people are caught in the middle of this mess.

 

[London Calling]

Of course Falklands is about oil, its the closest place to the untapped oil resrves of Antartica, and the reason why the Argies wanted it.


Why else would we have kept it? When we handed over all our other colonies, except the startegically important ones such as Gilbraltar and the Falklands.

We were AWARE of the Argentine plans, we had secret service, we had troop movement intelligence and we waited and waited, no warnings, no sending over a massive protectorate force to deter the Argies.

No we did nothing. We let them evade and then we went to war.

Political expendiency that costs lives. And now Blair despite the moral blackness of this episode, states that - with all the known evidence, on how corrupt this endeavour was - He says he would have done the same.


Well he probably would have, but I hope that a person with some moral dignity would take a diffrent approach.

Rant 2 over.


LC

 

[Buzzer]

OK I'm just trying to see both sides of the story. I think its foolish to just hate him outright.. comparing him to Hitler is a tab harsh!

I'm not comparing him to Hitler..I'm comparing your argument to something equally as woolly.

All we can establish is that Blair's reign is at best a curate's egg.

 

[Buzzer]

There is no such thing as society

You do know this is the worst piece of misquoting by taking a quote out of context in the history of misquotes, don't you? Google it if you don't believe me.

 

[Simster]

Tony Blair (and most of New Labour) is one of the most (if not THE most) corrupt, sleazy, slimy, arrogant, lying politicians this country has ever seen. I don't just mean now, I mean since 1997 (and probably before).

Just a thought, like.

What an absolute crock of shit. The tories cornered that particular market throughout the '80s and '90s. As mentioned earlier, it was the tories who preached family values whilst shagging anyone but their own spouses. I couldn't care less what people get up to, but don't preach to the rest of us about family values if you're the promiscuous sort FFS!

 

[Buzzer]

What an absolute crock of shit. The tories cornered that particular market throughout the '80s and '90s. As mentioned earlier, it was the tories who preached family values whilst shagging anyone but their own spouses. I couldn't care less what people get up to, but don't preach to the rest of us about family values if you're the promiscuous sort FFS!

Crap - trying to argue that the Tories of the 80s and the 90s were worse than New Labour is a bit like arguing that Pol Pot was worse than Stalin. Both are indefensible when it comes to sleaze.

 

[Franks Wild Years]

I'd just like to point out that in this debate the expression 'bumsucker' and 'curates egg' have been used.

 

[Buzzer]

I'd just like to point out that in this debate the expression 'bumsucker' and 'curates egg' have been used.

I know - I like to throw in a reference to a victorian Punch cartoon every once in a while!

 

[Les Biehn]

Bumsucker.