IndyRef2...

[Spiros]

I'm really not sure what part of 'if you vote for independence you have to leave the UK first and then apply for EU membership like any other country' Sturgeon doesn't get. As others have said there is NO way the Spanish will even contemplate Scotland joining and they can veto it. While the Scots may be a bit of a drag to us the Catalans are something of a powerhouse for the rest of Spain and there's no way the Spanish would want to risk Catalan independence being given a boost by an independent Scotland walking into the EU

 

[McTavish]

during the last indy referendum, several leading figures in EU outright said they'd have to leave and apply to join as any other country, should they vote to leave the UK. there was no ambiguity, maybes or conditions, there is simply no recognised path to "inherit" EU membership, along with a number opposed to any fast track process if there were a will to create one. the Spanish could simply veto their membership, it requires unanimous agreement.

Yes, and several leading figures disagreed with this - including the Spanish foreign minister. As I said, it is a very debatable area - not as simple as you stated.

 

[portlock seagull]

This country won't be happy until its drowned in a pool of self loathing.

Proud to be English. Proud to be British. In that order. If Scots no longer want to be called British then thats fine. Just don't expect any of the former Union benefits. Tired of the cake and eat it by association all the non English nationalities receive by living and working here - seemingly against their will for all the degrogatory comments and desire to create own laws, cultures etc here. About time we mandated Yorkshire pudding must be eaten every Sunday. After Longbow practice Seriously, why is being anti English so rife and acceptable? I've always loved being part of the Union, loved Wales, Ireland and Scotland (accept during a match if playing England as youd expect) And stop all this Braveheart, Cromwell etc bullshit. It was centuries ago and the history isnt exactly that straight forward.

 

[beorhthelm]

Yes, and several leading figures disagreed with this - including the Spanish foreign minister. As I said, it is a very debatable area - not as simple as you stated.

it is a fact there is no method for ceded region to join the EU through any other means that normal application of membership. they would have to create and legal framework (new treaties) to allow this, or else fast track an application, breaking rules of application along the way. its all quite possible, with the political will, but the fact is you cant do it today. the only debate is if there is that political will to change the rules to accommodate.

 

[5ways]

Really predictable, I'd expect the government to have planned to make some concession to Scotland. Bit surprised they've been caught so flat-footed.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Really predictable, I'd expect the government to have planned to make some concession to Scotland. Bit surprised they've been caught so flat-footed.

This is a government who, when Philip Hammond announced to Cabinet he was intending to increase the rate of National Insurance in his forthcoming Budget, NOT ONE Cabinet Minister noticed that that was breaking a 2015 manifesto commitment.

Their attention to detail is shocking, their failure to prepare for anything is shocking.

 

[ManOfSussex]

EU says independent Scotland would have to join queue to apply for membership

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...and-join-queue-membership-apply-a7627201.html

 

[studio150]

Really predictable, I'd expect the government to have planned to make some concession to Scotland. Bit surprised they've been caught so flat-footed.

They didn't have a plan for Brexit, why would they have a plan for Scotland.

They will wait until the result of the next Scottish referendum and then say Sexit means Sexit.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Given the Spanish stance towards Basque and Catalonian independence - and their opinions on Kosovo - it seems unlikely that Scotland will be allowed to join the EU. If this seems harsh it will seem all the harsher when - as planned - Montenegro joins the EU in 2019. Montenegro gained independence from Serbia and Montenegro in 2006. Crucially though, this country was not a member of the EU.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Given the Spanish stance towards Basque and Catalonian independence - and their opinions on Kosovo - it seems unlikely that Scotland will be allowed to join the EU. If this seems harsh it will seem all the harsher when - as planned - Montenegro joins the EU in 2019. Montenegro gained independence from Serbia and Montenegro in 2006. Crucially though, this country was not a member of the EU.

It was Spain that were going to veto any attempt for a separate Brexit deal for Scotland that Sturgeon proposed too - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...cola-sturgeon-brexit-plan-scotland-seemingly/

 

[Chief Wiggum]

...

 

[ManOfSussex]

Out of NATO too - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...membership-independent-scotland-a7627481.html

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The EU is not and has never been a country. The UK is.

The UK is an independent country and can choose to have a vote as and when it likes, with whatever rules it chooses. Scotland isn't, and can't. The Scots need the UK's permission to have a referendum.

its been mentioned a few times, Treaty of Lisbon provided Article 50 to so that a member state may leave the EU.

I know the legalities...but the principle is the same.

If I were Scottish, and there was a chance to stay in the EU by leaving the UK, then that is what I would want. To give the people of England the opportunity to deny them this is hardly going to foster closer ties between the Scots and the English, is it?

 

[Eeyore]

I get, and to a certain extent agree with, where you're coming from but surely it's unfair on the majority if they have to garner double the votes to change something ?

Perhaps, but I glad you recognise he narrative. Maybe 60-40, but I maintain that such important votes, that cannot be reversed, need more than a hair's width of support.

[MENTION=4019]Triggaaar[/MENTION] It is a democracy, but in most cases electoral decisions can be reversed at the next vote if folk don't like what they have. These decisions are permanent and require an unquestionable mandate- not one that might vary one week to the next.

I accept BREXIT and do not wish it to be reversed- whatever my concern about the narrowness of the vote. But the result does suggest that the final deal should go back to the public for approval. Most 'leavers' oppose this-but if they are so confident of the public's view then what are they fearful of ?

 

[Doonhamer7]

Why should we not have the chance to re-vote, the rules have changed - the Brexit decision has made a huge difference to everything. Scotland did the first big change against the Westminster political system with the decimation of Labour in 2015, we got rid if the Tories in 1997 (a generation after they (as Conservative and Unionist Party)had been the biggest party in Scotland). And as for Spain let's see its stance after the Catalonia independence vote in September. It may have no option but to start accepting its own break up, as the Basques will follow (that's democracy after all). Economically Scotland may not be strong but we are considerably more independent that the rest of the uk with our own church, legal system and education. My biggest gripe is that this is a vote for independence so why are the 1million or do ex-pats not allowed a vote!!!!!

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

Can't blame them at all. They are pro EU and anti-Tory, but run by Tories and being taken out of EU. Previously I was for them remaining part of the UK, but I can get why they would now want to leave.

One this for sure is David Cameron has made a total and utter mess of Britain.

Out of the EU, and out of NATO - Scotland has no chance

Just look at Spain's views on not even recognising Kosovo, Scotland would have a WORSE deal being independent.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Can't blame them at all. They are pro EU and anti-Tory, but run by Tories and being taken out of EU. Previously I was for them remaining part of the UK, but I can get why they would now want to leave.

One this for sure is David Cameron has made a total and utter mess of Britain.

Presumably you'd also understand the English and Welsh voting for Brexit then as without Scotland and Northern Ireland, the vote would have been overwhelmingly in favour of leaving.

 

[The Spanish]

Why should we not have the chance to re-vote, the rules have changed - the Brexit decision has made a huge difference to everything. Scotland did the first big change against the Westminster political system with the decimation of Labour in 2015, we got rid if the Tories in 1997 (a generation after they (as Conservative and Unionist Party)had been the biggest party in Scotland). And as for Spain let's see its stance after the Catalonia independence vote in September. It may have no option but to start accepting its own break up, as the Basques will follow (that's democracy after all). Economically Scotland may not be strong but we are considerably more independent that the rest of the uk with our own church, legal system and education. My biggest gripe is that this is a vote for independence so why are the 1million or do ex-pats not allowed a vote!!!!!

Because you cannot define expat if they have never been a citizen of the state of Scotland, unless you say 'people who were born there' or those that are 'ethnically scottish' which opens up a whole can of worms.

Imagine if you applied those rules in a U.K. General election.

It's quite simple.

 

[Seasidesage]

Can I be the 1st to say if you want to go, **** off and take your share of the debt with you. No keeping the pound or anything that benefited you from being in the union.

I voted remain, vote was lost you cannot keep having votes until you get the answer you want. I'm sick of people wittering on about democracy and then ignoring it if it doesn't come up with the answer they want. If Scotland just want to cherry pick what they think suits them the best while ignoring the bits they don't then they are of no use to the union or indeed the EU.

 

[gruntage]

Having had a Scottish grandfather, I am hoping to be eligible for Scottish citizenship.

According to the SNP's independence manifesto from the first referendum, having a Scottish grandparent will qualify you for a.Scottish passport but you'd have to apply. People that live in Scotland at the time of independence automatically qualify. I'm looking forward to my passport through my Scottish heritage!