[Politics] Immigration detention centres

[The Clamp]

Teenage boy allegedly raped at hotel housing refugees in London

Exclusive: Met investigating two alleged sexual assaults at site amid growing fears over safety of refugee facilities

www.theguardian.com

Teenage boy allegedly raped at hotel housing refugees in London​

Exclusive: Met investigating two alleged sexual assaults at site, amid growing fears over safety of refugee facilities

A teenage boy was allegedly raped by a man in his 30s at a hotel used to house refugees in east London, and another alleged sexual assault against a child is said to have taken place at the same facility.

The Metropolitan police confirmed they were investigating both incidents, which come amid growing fears of chronic overcrowding and unsafe facilities for refugees that have put significant pressure on the home secretary, Suella Braverman.


The other child was allegedly sexually assaulted at the same accommodation facility in Walthamstow. The Met said a person had been charged with one count of sexual touching of a child under 13 and would appear in court next week.


The two incidents are alleged to have taken place within weeks of each other at a hotel where 150 children are reportedly squeezed in alongside 250 adults.

You seem obsessed with sexual crimes.

Your article goes to show that the Tory’s are failing in the most serious manner.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Harry!! Unlike that’s very you….wasnt the poster making a legitimate comment/post about the statistics being quoted

Here is a legitimate point. He ignored 98% of my post to quibble about 2%. Very tiresome.

 

[Lenny Rider]

I'm afraid there is very clear data on who has made out of all this over the last 12 years Lenny, and it's not me, you or @Steve Foster (although he thinks otherwise ).

I am different to you two though, as I don't keep voting for it

To be fair WZ my voting record in GE's is as follows
1983/87/92 Lib Dem, personally knew all the candidates (sadly cremated one of them last year)
97/01 Labour Thought TB was the answer
05 onwards Tim Loughton, will possibly offend many on here, especially Saint Noel over in the Fatherland, but I first met Mr Loughton when he knocked on the door during Harty Juniors 2nd birthday party during the 1997 campaign, from a huge degree of suspicion I've got to know him over the years and can say, pardon the pun, hand on heart that he does a tremendous amount of work for his constituents, regardless of whether they voted for him or not. He is, as is Sir Peter Bottomley in Worthing West, what constituency MP's should be, perhaps if people voted for the best candidate in their seat rather than the colour of the rossette, we'd have a better House of Commons and therefore a better country?

 

[macbeth]

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Teenage boy allegedly raped at hotel housing refugees in London

Exclusive: Met investigating two alleged sexual assaults at site amid growing fears over safety of refugee facilities

www.theguardian.com

Teenage boy allegedly raped at hotel housing refugees in London​

Exclusive: Met investigating two alleged sexual assaults at site, amid growing fears over safety of refugee facilities

A teenage boy was allegedly raped by a man in his 30s at a hotel used to house refugees in east London, and another alleged sexual assault against a child is said to have taken place at the same facility.

The Metropolitan police confirmed they were investigating both incidents, which come amid growing fears of chronic overcrowding and unsafe facilities for refugees that have put significant pressure on the home secretary, Suella Braverman.


The other child was allegedly sexually assaulted at the same accommodation facility in Walthamstow. The Met said a person had been charged with one count of sexual touching of a child under 13 and would appear in court next week.


The two incidents are alleged to have taken place within weeks of each other at a hotel where 150 children are reportedly squeezed in alongside 250 adults.

Your point could be that this is awful and reflects lack of supervision by the so-called authorities.

Or it could be something else.

Hmmmm......

 

[A1X]

 

[A1X]

Welcome to Britain under the Tories

 

[beorhthelm]

Really? Who? And this is your issue? What is your agenda? It seems to me you are seeking to engineer a new context. What is your solution?

i feel like im reading a parallel thread. started off linking to an interesting BBC article, which cites evidence in parliament that there is a significant issue with Albanians. others are trying to play down the impact, i dont know what to say if you haven't read those posts.

my solution would be to let them all arrive by controlled process through the ferry ports, onwards to accomodation around the country.

 

[LamieRobertson]

This is your post;

“It still an issue though surely i dont recall saying it was worse…….full marks for coming up with an alternative…generally all i see is moaning about the current system without suggesting an alternative”

Hardly “jumping to conclusions”. Seems like you’re referring to people on here.

Be a bit clearer in future, perhaps?

Maybe ..maybe not .. ..I’ll use recovering from the dentists chair as mitigating circumstances your Honour

 

[The Clamp]

Maybe ..maybe not .. ..I’ll use recovering from the dentists chair as mitigating circumstances your Honour

Ouch! Good luck!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

i feel like im reading a parallel thread. started off linking to an interesting BBC article, which cites evidence in parliament that there is a significant issue with Albanians. others are trying to play down the impact, i dont know what to say if you haven't read those posts.

my solution would be to let them all arrive by controlled process through the ferry ports, onwards to accomodation around the country.

Apologies. Your prose is always a bit spartan and it isn't often obvious what point it is you are trying to make.

The first part, 'arrive by controlled process' is a little mystifying. Are you talking about people who are currently arriving by illegal transport? I presume so because those arriving by legal transport are not part of the problem (and will quickly be granted status here however they arrive).

Do you imagine those currently arriving by illegal transport will ignore the traffickers and attempt to board the 'Spirit of Free Enterprise' ferry if we said: 'come on over and take your chances'? If they are not entitled to status here (and without checking the numbers I am guessing that most people arriving in a dinghy on Seaford beach are not entitled to be here) why would they try to enter the country via a 'controlled process through the ferry ports'?

By accommodation I presume you mean secure but humane processing centres. This is what happens now (apart from the humane bit, and the 'around the country' bit, and, perhaps also, the 'secure' bit). So, you think we need to spend a lot more money on processing?

I can't see how this will do anything about solving the problem of 'illegal' migrants (those who know they would not be granted status).

Separately, spending money on humane processing centres is not what the 'send them back' electorate want. Farrage and chums will accuse the government of effectively inviting all and sundry to come over here and seek status 'at our expense'. How would this be compatible with any semblance of deterrence? The Tories won't do it. I would be surprised that Labour would do this, either, and if they did it would require courage and stoicism, because with burgeoning processing centres, effectively 'hotels', lots of people would be here a long time awaiting an outcome. However.....I would vote for it.

 

[rippleman]

Some people never learn. The Tory’s spun all the same bullshit when they wanted us to vote leave. They are doing it now to make us vote for them in the next GE. Because they are the only ones capable of stopping the “invasion”. Even through they’ve been in charge of it for almost 13 years.

Demonise immigrants and foreigners. Get a brown lady to front the hate campaign because she couldn’t possibly be racist, could she?

There’ll be all sorts coming along. If we experience power cuts this winter, there’ll be headlines like;

“lights left burning all night in immigration centres as Brits are shrouded in darkness. THIS MADNESS MUST STOP”

“It would have been worse under Corbyn”

“Immigrants dine on Turkey roasts while BRITS STARVE”

“Albanians stealing energy funds from BRITISH CHILDREN”

“Albanians receive free haircuts. WHILE ARMY VETS ARE ON THE STREETS THIS CHRISTMAS”


And unfortunately, judging by some of the posts on this thread, a fair few are falling for it. Again.

Of course it would have been worse under Corbyn. EVERYTHING would have been worse undeer Corbyn. Get with the programme

 

[carlzeiss]

Your point could be that this is awful and reflects lack of supervision by the so-called authorities.

Or it could be something else.

Hmmmm......

Demonstrates to me that the current measures in place for refugees are inadequate .

They need to be provided with suitable housing for their needs depending on family size , however as far as I can observe there is a shortage of available property hence the government booking hotels as a short term solution . Due to the numbers arriving recently it seems that there are no longer enough hotel places available hence people being kept at the migrant holding centers longer than is ideal with over crowding and deteriorating conditions being inevitable . Some reports in the press today do suggest that the government is trying to obtain further hotel places but that this is being blocked by local councils with concerns from local residents being expressed

Also once these peoples asylum applications are granted they will be entitled to bring family members to the UK and on average each will bring 6 which will require further housing .

Only solution I can see is to start building housing for the new arrivals as quickly as possible but the current government has no plans in place for this as far as I am aware.

Haven't noticed Labour politicians offering any solutions other that criticism of the current government so would guess that they are clueless also

BTW , Too keep to form , here is an example of another Albanian that is being looked after because it is not safe for him to be in his home country .

Man jailed for life for murder of school teacher in London

Judge says Albanian driver Koci Selamaj committed ‘savage’ and sexually motivated attack.

www.aljazeera.com

Man jailed for life for murder of teacher Sabina Nessa in London​

Judge says Albanian driver Koci Selamaj committed ‘savage’ and sexually motivated attack.

 

[rippleman]

My brother works finding temporary accommodation for asylum seekers. The young males mostly vanish the day after they are housed. There is no system, let alone a failed system.

Excuse me abbreviating your post but the issue you have raised here is of significant concern to many and serves to re-inforce the paranoia that the Tories are instilling in the population. The vanishing young males are extremely likely to be working in the black economy or engaging in criminal activity. Either way, we can't have those young males awaiting an asylum decision to just go wandering off and disappearing. Unfortunately their movements do, IMO, have to be restricted until a final decision is made.

I am at a loss to understand why the decision making process takes so bloody long. Turn the claims round in maximum 2 weeks and either grant assylum and help the genuine refugees settle here or sling them straight out if their claims have failed.

Many claims eg women and children from Syria, Afghanistan, Iran etc are going to be "no-brainers" anyway. House these people in hotels and hold back young, single males back in the "camps" so their claims can be more thoroughly examined.

Get the women and children sorted and settled immediately without exposing them to the trauma of the inhumane conditions in the camps.

 

[beorhthelm]

Apologies. Your prose is always a bit spartan and it isn't often obvious what point it is you are trying to make.

The first part, 'arrive by controlled process' is a little mystifying. Are you talking about people who are currently arriving by illegal transport? I presume so because those arriving by legal transport are not part of the problem (and will quickly be granted status here however they arrive).

Do you imagine those currently arriving by illegal transport will ignore the traffickers and attempt to board the 'Spirit of Free Enterprise' ferry if we said: 'come on over and take your chances'? If they are not entitled to status here (and without checking the numbers I am guessing that most people arriving in a dinghy on Seaford beach are not entitled to be here) why would they try to enter the country via a 'controlled process through the ferry ports'?

By accommodation I presume you mean secure but humane processing centres. This is what happens now (apart from the humane bit, and the 'around the country' bit, and, perhaps also, the 'secure' bit). So, you think we need to spend a lot more money on processing?

I can't see how this will do anything about solving the problem of 'illegal' migrants (those who know they would not be granted status).

Separately, spending money on humane processing centres is not what the 'send them back' electorate want. Farrage and chums will accuse the government of effectively inviting all and sundry to come over here and seek status 'at our expense'. How would this be compatible with any semblance of deterrence? The Tories won't do it. I would be surprised that Labour would do this, either, and if they did it would require courage and stoicism, because with burgeoning processing centres, effectively 'hotels', lots of people would be here a long time awaiting an outcome. However.....I would vote for it.

it wasnt obvious because i wasnt trying to make any point beyond the Albanians are a new dimension to the problem. which is what i posted.

yes, address the problem of illegal methods of transport. first problem is lack of legal means to claim asylum. once you have that solved, can tackle the question of who is and isnt a legitmate asylum seeker more easily. legal/illegal immigrant status is smokescreen, its about routes of entry. i dont believe for a minute all immigrants are seeking asylum, there are many economic migrants too, chosing this opportunity over others. by presenting a route for asylum claims beyond the border, those who dont take that route can be assumed economic migrants.

accomodation probably wouldnt even cost "more" if it were spent better, by controlling the inflow you can ensure they are placed in suitable accomodation and not the obvious bottleneck of a single centre.

the second problem, what to do about economic immigrants that dont seek asylum, is frankly unsolvable without a signifcant political cost. dont see anyone even attempting to address that one, preferring to get bogged down in legal/illegal quagmire instead. i say let them in, as you say a courageous decision for politicans. it does also create or amplify other problems, so its not probably very sensbile.

 

[amexer]

Do you have sources for these figures?

And war is not the only reason people seek asylum.

86% of Albanian refugees are granted asylum. The vast majority of which are trafficked women and girls. Young, single and in desperate need of rescuing .

I posted my source a few pages back.

It was on BBC website. 50 Albanians in 2020 200 in 2021 and 12000 in 2022. Of the 12000, 10000 were single males They must have got these facts from somewhere. As someone who has always welcomed refugees maybe not the forum to say it but I dont quite feel the same about 10k single males coming from a peaceful country.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

it wasnt obvious because i wasnt trying to make any point beyond the Albanians are a new dimension to the problem. which is what i posted.

yes, address the problem of illegal methods of transport. first problem is lack of legal means to claim asylum. once you have that solved, can tackle the question of who is and isnt a legitmate asylum seeker more easily. legal/illegal immigrant status is smokescreen, its about routes of entry. i dont believe for a minute all immigrants are seeking asylum, there are many economic migrants too, chosing this opportunity over others. by presenting a route for asylum claims beyond the border, those who dont take that route can be assumed economic migrants.

accomodation probably wouldnt even cost "more" if it were spent better, by controlling the inflow you can ensure they are placed in suitable accomodation and not the obvious bottleneck of a single centre.

the second problem, what to do about economic immigrants that dont seek asylum, is frankly unsolvable without a signifcant political cost. dont see anyone even attempting to address that one, preferring to get bogged down in legal/illegal quagmire instead. i say let them in, as you say a courageous decision for politicans. it does also create or amplify other problems, so its not probably very sensbile.

Cheers for that. A knotty problem all round.

 

[Randy McNob]

You seem obsessed with sexual crimes.

Your article goes to show that the Tory’s are failing in the most serious manner.

what do you expect from guardian reading, tofu eating, wokeratti?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The Sun pushes the narrative that the boat landings are all young men, but photos on this thread, show this is propaganda by that rag.
The tv programme Saving Lives at Sea also showed families and children being rescued.

 

[The Clamp]

It was on BBC website. 50 Albanians in 2020 200 in 2021 and 12000 in 2022. Of the 12000, 10000 were single males They must have got these facts from somewhere. As someone who has always welcomed refugees maybe not the forum to say it but I dont quite feel the same about 10k single males coming from a peaceful country.

You have quoted the report. What is the source?