im shocked...two autistic people I know are UKIP members

[Taybha]

Politics are not my strong suit but this thread just reads to me how dare people with autism have political views and vote differently than me , Kinel .


I make no apologies if i'm wrong but thats what i see .

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I'm no liberal. I recognise people want change from neoliberalism and if they don't let the left organise and propose our policies, they will vote for the other alternative.

Actually I think more and more people just want to be left the **** alone by Governments and to have them stop thieving from them via legalised theft in the name of tax.

In that sense more and more people are beginning to harbour a libertarian mindset because it calls for less government interference and more right to self determination.

 

[1066gull]

here you go:

There was another one I saw a year ago. I'll try and find it when I'm home.

This is also another fact:

Labour created the NHS and will be only Labour that will save it.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Why? Do you want a privatised NHS? That will just push up the price of healthcare. Just look at the statistics of train fares rising since British Rail was privatised. Pharmaceuticals will jack up the prices of drugs because they know health insurers will pay the price. Insurers than pass the cost back on to us. The NHS when it is properly funded is a lot more cost effective for all of us as they always get the cost of the treatment at the best price. Pharmaceuticals want privatisation.

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You're just a scrounger at heart aren't you.

 

[1066gull]

Actually I think more and more people just want to be left the **** alone by Governments and to have them stop thieving from them via legalised theft in the name of tax.

In that sense more and more people are beginning to harbour a libertarian mindset because it calls for less government interference and more right to self determination.

Tell me how people who are sick and on benefits, who get hounded by various firms is being left alone?

Also, is this what you want? This is what was sneaked through when everyone was talking about Trump

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...rivacy-investigatory-powers-act-a7426461.html

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Tell me how people who are sick and on benefits, who get hounded by various firms is being left alone?

Also, is this what you want? This is what was sneaked through when everyone was talking about Trump

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...rivacy-investigatory-powers-act-a7426461.html

Obviously I wouldn't want that given I said i support Governments staying right out of our lives. Your beloved Labour included.

 

[Mackenzie]

Unfortunately for us all, Corbyn needs to appeal to a larger spectrum than he is doing. There simply isn't enough who think the same way as he does for him to ever get the power he requires to change anything. Somewhere along the line Labour is going to have to replace him if they are serious about winning an election, because he will not compromise his vision.

If you want to change the World, it's a lot easier when people listen to you.

In the meantime we're stuck with the tories and all that it entails (good and bad).

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I'm no liberal. I recognise people want change from neoliberalism and if they don't let the left organise and propose our policies, they will vote for the other alternative.

Socialists sat at the back for 35 years letting Thatcher and Blair do their job. People want change. If the liberal centre can't accept that and let us get on with the job of proposing fair policies for all, people will vote for another alternative. And albeit a terrifying alternative, but it is at least an alternative they want from neoliberalism.

Well let's start by asking people to make more of a contribution to things like the NHS, I would, would you? We would then have enough money going back in to the system, and it stops the likes of the Labour party using it as a political football. If we can't find the money to look after our own NHS, then what about an insurance based system, because money doesn't grow on trees. As for the Labour party I don't want think they want the NHS anyway whilst the Tories are in charge. They need something to try and beat the tories with, at the same time as constantly alienating their own people by calling anyone who mentions health tourism as an xenophobe.

 

[Stato]

no regular person would even want to be associated with that group of people and their views.

An argument that doesn't really stand up if you consider that Clinton won the popular vote by a million.

In answer to the OP, it is dangerous to classify people according to one facet of their whole and define an acceptable course of actions for them accordingly. It is the perception that this is what the liberal left is trying to do to everyone that is allowing popularists like Trump and Farage to speak to people in the terms of 'They say you are this, but we know that you are more than that and will listen to what you think, not tell you what you should think.' It will ultimately be proved to be a lie, but only time and experience will confirm this.

Identity politics has treated individuals as macro groups suggesting that people's interests should be defined by disability, race, class or sexuality. Although it is statistically true to suggest that certain groups are disadvantaged under the policies proposed by the right wing popularists, individuals do not want to be defined as statistics and without the structure of engagement and example of shared interest that was provided by heavily unionised manufacturing industry, have rejected the definitions of their best interests provided by social studies.

This, coming at the same time as the democratisation of truth provided by the internet and the failure of traditional national governments to tackle the challenges of international capitalism has allowed more and more people to define their own motivations and best interests that don't follow traditional patterns. We now seem to live in a time best defined by the old adage about religion: that when people cease to believe in god, or in this case institutions, that the danger is not that they will believe in nothing, but that they will believe in anything.

 

[beorhthelm]

In all of the years in office, Labour have had more years of budget surplus and paid of the debt quicker than the Conservatives. It is statically a fact Labour is better at managing the economy than the Conservatives.

you've entirely missed the point made. anyway your "facts" which i'm not disputing do not lead to the statistical conclusion you draw from them. there is an arguement that after years of mismangment the following goverment has more debt problems to deal with. its certainly true in this past 10 year period that spending commitments went out of control, and come home to roost, unless you want serious cutting of public services we'll have to ride it out.

 

[1066gull]

Well let's start by asking people to make more a contribution to things like the NHS, I would, would you? We would then have enough money going back in to the system, and it stops the likes of the Labour party using it as a political football. Truth is I don't think the Labour party want the NHS to work whilst the Tories are in charge.

This Saturday 26 November Labour have a national day of campaigning on the NHS. We should all be prepared to pay more but they fact is, the poorest 25% have had a bigger hit on their income over the last six years. We should be asking the top earners to pay more, not just the people who are working everyday and still don't have enough money at the end of the day.

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[darkwolf666]

It's the same thing. Please tell me how I'm wrong?

Also Farage is a vile man. If he ever was in power all he would do his privatise the NHS and fleece this countries resources for his mates in high places.

No he wouldn't he's not a Tory!

 

[AK74]

Why? Do you want a privatised NHS? That will just push up the price of healthcare. Just look at the statistics of train fares rising since British Rail was privatised.

Why do you care about trains? Surely you just take the outrage bus for every journey.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

This Saturday 26 November Labour have a national day of campaigning on the NHS. We should all be prepared to pay more but they fact is, the poorest 25% have had a bigger hit on their income over the last six years. We should be asking the top earners to pay more, not just the people who are working everyday and still don't have enough money at the end of the day.

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A day of national campaigning slagging off those nasty tories, xenophobes, sexists, homophobes, islmaphobes that what it is really about.

The top earners already pay more. I'm sure everyone could find a fiver a month extra? We can afford mobile phones, internet and other things, so I'm sure we could find a bit extra for our NHS. That is the truth of the matter.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

An argument that doesn't really stand up if you consider that Clinton won the popular vote by a million.

And yet she lost the state count by 8-10 states. Just because New York and California have large populations doesn't mean every other state has to put up with whatever they vote for.

 

[Paul Reids Sock]

It's the same thing. Please tell me how I'm wrong?

Also Farage is a vile man. If he ever was in power all he would do his privatise the NHS and fleece this countries resources for his mates in high places.

I don't think it is the same thing. 'Autistic People' labels them as a group. the way I see it people that happen to have autism are people just like anyone. As such they are perfectly entitled to their own opinions. My view is based on the 'autistic people' that I work with that hate being labelled as 'Autistic People'.

Again with Farage, you are saying he is a vile man. Don't get me wrong I am not a massive fan, but people would claim the majority of the vile persona has been set by the media to discredit him and ensure that he doesn't challenge the mainstream too much and I wouldn't necessarily disagree. This is the same media that 'spouts out' rubbish that it breaks your heart to see. Despite the fact that I don't agree with his policies he is perfectly within his right to have his, a view shared by a number of people around the country. In an ideal world the media would report the news not sound clips that support their agenda.

I am not sure why you, I or anyone for that matter should question anybodies political views based on assuming their religion/ethnicity/medical history/condition should put them in a certain bracket. Everyone is entitled to view the media that they do and come to their own conclusions.

 

[1066gull]

No he wouldn't he's not a Tory!

They're worse than Tories. Basically New Labour was Tories in red ties. We've not had a proper left government since Wilson.

I'm not stubborn enough to think we should always vote a left government, just after 40 years since the last one, we need it for a term or two.

People do change over time. I feel I've changed politically over the last ten years but young people like me nearing their thirties are likely to never own a home. We got to have a change to fix that and I don't see the rise in the right as being able to fix that. I liken the rise of Trump and voting got Brexit as a very comparable time to the early 1930s. I fear that we are heading to a time where Muslims are persecuted just like the Jews were in WWII.

I also fear people won't vote for a left government until it's too late, until we've had a devastating global war which millions have people have had to suffer. I don't blame people wanting change, I empathise with them on that. I just really do believe we need a socialist government for the next 10 years. After that? Maybe it will have to go back to conservative.

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

Phew, it had been 5 whole minutes since we had a good Left/Right binfest!

Congrats [MENTION=4370]1066gull[/MENTION] you've got so many outrage inducing words in that opening post that this will EASILY go to 40 pages. Bravo.

 

[Stato]

And yet she lost the state count by 8-10 states. Just because New York and California have large populations doesn't mean every other state has to put up with whatever they vote for.

Nobody said they should. I merely suggested that your argument that no regular person would want to be associated with those views, inadvertently defines more than half of the active electorate as being not regular people. Given that the most likely definition for a 'regular' person would probably be something like 'being like the majority of other people,' your statement seems a mathematical, if not a logical fallacy.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Farrage is an odious character.

However McDonnell and Corbain are fairly anti Israel, bordering on anti semitic at times. Oh and can be seen as pro IRA, so no better than Farage in many ways.

Oh and this thread is like being back in 2005...