[Finance] I'm never going to buy my own house am I?

[Wrong-Direction]

The issue relates to the Thatcher Government and the reasons I have set out below

Between the 1960 and the early 1980s there was three types of housing available to the masses purchasing, rental on the private market or renting from the state all three were available as one person working would expect to earn enough to fund this and bring up a family Today Millions of full time working people can no longer support a family pay rent or mortgage and feed and cloth a family on one persons wages and making the social welfare system under greater pressure than ever

The reasons for this relates to lending rates Since the 1980s wages rose much slower partly due to the fall in influence of trade unions, partly because of a series of very deep recessions, partly because of the Thatcher Governments dramatic move to reduce public spending on state ownership away from a manufacturing base to one built upon finances externally and home ownership internally, selling of the state owner housing stock at knock down rates with no reinvestment into new homes, people looking for somewhere to live only had two options buy or private rental, the U.K. Economic model was now largely driven by financial sector this led to a stable economy for the next 20 years and governments of all political persuasions continued to develop the economy along these lines creating stable low interest rates which in turn suppressed the argument for high wage rises and promoted easy credit..

This fundamentally changed society with only two options for housing individuals savings gave little return unless they were invested into high risk shares, so property became a far more valuable commodity and values started to rise soon the working one person was now not earning enough alone to raise enough credit to purchase so the norm became two working people this started to effect society in other ways family structures changed became more pressured this continued higher house prices depressed wages less skilled jobs more people working full time doing several jobs and yet still unable to raise enough credit and lenders constantly increasing the lend to lone rate until the only way onto the housing market for most was to have very a substantial deposit.

The bank of mum and dad became the new normal but only for those who could afford it for millions of others that was not an option for the first since the start of the welfare state the uk had a large proportion who were two adults working full time across a number of jobs and we finding that they were not able to earn enough to support a family pay the rent or to get onto the housing market.

Then the financial crash of 2010 gave the right of British politics an opportunity to squeeze big government and the services it provided which the right was ideologically not in favour of supporting it did this under the guise of paying off the national debt within an unreasonable timeline this was compounded by Brexit and Covid19 the Government in a desperate act to kick an economy into life announces that it would introduce a freeze on stamp duty to reduce house buying creating a house purchasing boom but it has inadvertently increased house prices by 6% making hosing even more unattainable

Good post

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[bravohotelalpha]

I'm 42 sodding years old.

I've come to the conclusion that I should just ****ing give up on the whole dream.

As some of you know I've been saving for the best part of 10 years for a deposit for a house and have a sizeable deposit so it was time to start looking and applying for mortgages.

This was back in March just before the world decided to shit itself to death with Covid19.

Ever since then its just been let down after let down or problem after problem.

The Mrs was due to go back to work part time on April 1st 2020 after her maternity leave had finished so I was desperate to get one before that happened as in doing so her income dropped by £8k a year severely affecting our LTV figures.

Over the next few months all my overtime disappeared as the company I worked for began to struggle costing me over £8k in yearly o/t earnings. Basically the £16k a year we are down has hit us really hard and put paid to any chance of being able to borrow enough to buy anywhere.

So I got a new job in December that involved a big rise in my basic pay and we thought we could be back in the game and be looking at houses now.

I went back to work after Christmas feeling positive and hopeful for the future on the 4th Jan.

On the morning of 5th Jan my car broke down driving to work (£450 for a new alternator). At 10am the MD of the company called me into his office to say they were shutting down due to Lockdown 3 being announced the previous evening and furloughing all staff.

Because I only started in December I couldn't be furloughed so they terminated my employment (I was on 3 month probationary period) so there was **** all I could do but go home and tell the wife.

That afternoon I had an emotional call from my mum to say that Dad (who had been in hospital over christmas) wasn't doing well as they'd had a meeting with Oncology at RSCH and that there was nothing more they could do about his brain tumours and that The Martletts would be taking over palliative care moving forward.

I say luckily in a very ironic way that I've worked quick despite this year being worse than 2020 already that I've managed to find another job so am back into work but its a 30 mile round trip in the car compared to a short bike ride or 3 mile round trip to the last job.

Because of my increased commuting costs I'm actually in a worse off place than I was before I left my other job to take a chance to buy my own place. Now I'm having to use the deposit money to live temporarily and top up our earnings just to keep this rented place over my familys head and pay to get to work.

I've been renting for 10 years and spent over £120,000 paying off other peoples ****ing mortgages instead of my own and its really dragging me down to the depths of despair and depression.

Just how do you do it?

I have a deposit, no loans, credit cards, HP or PCP on cars, we are debt free, we both have good credit ratings and still can't get someone to lend us enough to buy a house as we just don't earn enough money.

It makes me feel physically sick to the pit of my stomach knowing I'm doing a shit job of providing my family with a stable life.

Now things are seriously deteoriating with Dad I just don't know what to ****ing do any more.

Only I could take a shot at doing the best for my family and ending up in a ****ing worse position than when I started.

I've started going down a very dark hole in my mind lately that I can't seem to find a way out of yet and I'm starting to have some intrusive thoughts creep in.

Don't give up - just had a quick look on Rightmove, there are some houses available for £230k. Some aren't in the most desirable areas but there are some in Eastbourne and Eastbourne is OK - worth a look. Best wishes

 

[Falmer Wizard]

I dont think I want to go back the way I've been treated. If they're that quick to just **** me over then who's to say they won't do it again? I need security first.

I spent 5 years as a mature student working up to HNC on day release gaining top marks throughout from work whilst working 12hr days and raising my daughter from birth (she's now 6 and another 18 month is here as well) to create an opportunity for myself and move up in the world.

All Ive done is go ****ing backwards. Just seems like a complete waste of my time and money getting ****ing nowhere.

If I had life insurance I'd ****ing drive off Ditchling Beacon at full speed if the wife and kids got a decent payout from it. Because I don't seem to be able to find the ****ing answers.

Do you really think your family would be better off,without you ?
I speak from having a member of my family taking his life because he thought his family would be better off without him, stop and think,your wife would not have your earnings and backing. dont desert them when they need you so much

 

[Knocky's Nose]

You will get there. You will. 100%.

For now, it's not meant to happen as you have other priorities - but in the future there will be a time when it's right, and you'll own your own home.

Batten down the hatches for now, accept that it's all a bit shit, and be assured that over that hill there'll be a mortgage and your own home*

*and all the bloody expense which goes with 'putting your stamp on it'

Don't go down a dark hole mate. I've been in your position and know how frustrating it can be. When I was down I just used to think "renting is bollocks, but at least I'm putting a roof over my families heads. We could be homeless, so I'm at least doing what I'm supposed to do as a husband and a father.."

You're not letting anyone down. You're just falling victim to the external pressure of 'being a home owner' which has been spoon fed to us since the 80's - and if you're not, you must be inferior. That's utter bollocks. You're providing, and you're doing a good job.

Sh*t will change. Be patient. You have other priorities right now.

 

[Falmer Wizard]

In your situation things are very difficult, the last thing you need is an addition to the family

 

[carlzeiss]

I'm hoping for a huge crash in a couple of years

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I am with you there , my mortgage was paid back several years ago so it matters not a jot to me whether house prices rise or fall , however for the sake young people starting out a drastic drop can only be a good thing .

 

[zefarelly]

Spongy . . .THats a shit about the job, lucky to have found something else at the moment, its harsh out there.

Do not beat yourself up, easy to say, but think about it, you've done nothing wrong. Nothing you can do about your dad, I lost mine in similar circumstances 16 years ago, he never saw my lad. Its harsh, it hurts, but its no ones fault.

This year is going to be tough, but you're in a good position in many respects. If you can get a deal in principal you need to be on the case of all the local EA's and ready to pounce. . . . A wreck anything, just your own roof.

As for property, you should be able to get on the ladder with a few compromises, look at Henfield maybe, close enough, good school catchment, away from the London train line so better value, have a few friends from Steyning who moved there, they love it, as did the kids.

If you do that you only have to Sit tight for a few years maybe add value, then look at options again. . . . . I was brought up in building sites, kids are remarkably resilient and a lot of renovation is pretty straight forward.

I won't ask how Dry January is going ;-)

 

[jakarta]

Elephant in Room is of course massive increase in UK population over past 20 or so years, most of whom wish to live in the South East of England, hence immense pressure on housing.

I do love Sussex but not as much as I used to and could well think of us retiring to Hereford/Worcester or maybe Norfolk/Suffolk once Mrs Jakarta's health issues are sorted. We would get a massive amount more bang for our buck but it obviously makes getting to Home games a pain in the arse!

 

[Weststander]

I dont think I want to go back the way I've been treated. If they're that quick to just **** me over then who's to say they won't do it again? I need security first.

I spent 5 years as a mature student working up to HNC on day release gaining top marks throughout from work whilst working 12hr days and raising my daughter from birth (she's now 6 and another 18 month is here as well) to create an opportunity for myself and move up in the world.

All Ive done is go ****ing backwards. Just seems like a complete waste of my time and money getting ****ing nowhere.

If I had life insurance I'd ****ing drive off Ditchling Beacon at full speed if the wife and kids got a decent payout from it. Because I don't seem to be able to find the ****ing answers.

Seriously look at affordable homes, shared ownership with a registered social landlord. There are 10,000’s of newbuilds of these throughout Sussex every year, houses and flats. You’ll find that some people immediately, with zero knowledge, politicise this and sneer at the affordable bit. In reality, I’ve had first hand discussions with many families and couples who moved into decent brand new homes, after a longish wait, where they find the mortgage/rent very affordable. Genuinely really pleased with their lot. This includes teachers, nurses, single parents. An initial call to someone like non-profit making Hyde Homes should give you further information.

Please be flexible about where you choose to live, that will open up more opportunities. Burgess Hill, Haywards Heath, Horsham, Copthorne are all growing by the day, a decent proportion of the homes will be affordables.

There’s no need to envy people on the housing ladder. In effect, there are tens of millions of us a slave to SE England land prices and a mortgage paying it off for most of our lives. The equivalent of rent, the one ‘benefit’ that when we’re 65 or 70, we’ll own it outright. But going down the affordable route, you can get there too. But as someone else posted, don’t be ashamed or angry about renting, in Germany and Austria half the households rent by choice.

Health and your family are more important than ruminating about the property market and the very long term. If this is really affecting your health, please speak to your GP as soon as possible.

Good luck with it all.

 

[GT49er]

I dont think I want to go back the way I've been treated. If they're that quick to just **** me over then who's to say they won't do it again? I need security first.

I spent 5 years as a mature student working up to HNC on day release gaining top marks throughout from work whilst working 12hr days and raising my daughter from birth (she's now 6 and another 18 month is here as well) to create an opportunity for myself and move up in the world.

All Ive done is go ****ing backwards. Just seems like a complete waste of my time and money getting ****ing nowhere.

Chin up mate, and don't beat yourself up - you're doing a much better job - as a man, a husband and dad - than you're giving yourself credit for. You're a bit like the team we both support really - doing all the right things, but not quite getting the rewards that they/you deserve! I've got no great bits of advice to give you, although as some have already said, maybe moving somewhere a bit cheaper (and I'm not talking the frozen north, just to a different part of Sussex where there is less demand from commuters) might be worth considering. Anyway, all I can do is wish you all the best.

If I had life insurance I'd ****ing drive off Ditchling Beacon at full speed if the wife and kids got a decent payout from it. Because I don't seem to be able to find the ****ing answers.

Just don't even go there, please. Just think of those two lovely little girls who greet you with hugs when you get home. It might leave them richer - but is it worth breaking their hearts?

 

[DJ NOBO]

The issue relates to the Thatcher Government and the reasons I have set out below

Between the 1960 and the early 1980s there was three types of housing available to the masses purchasing, rental on the private market or renting from the state all three were available as one person working would expect to earn enough to fund this and bring up a family Today Millions of full time working people can no longer support a family pay rent or mortgage and feed and cloth a family on one persons wages and making the social welfare system under greater pressure than ever

The reasons for this relates to lending rates Since the 1980s wages rose much slower partly due to the fall in influence of trade unions, partly because of a series of very deep recessions, partly because of the Thatcher Governments dramatic move to reduce public spending on state ownership away from a manufacturing base to one built upon finances externally and home ownership internally, selling of the state owner housing stock at knock down rates with no reinvestment into new homes, people looking for somewhere to live only had two options buy or private rental, the U.K. Economic model was now largely driven by financial sector this led to a stable economy for the next 20 years and governments of all political persuasions continued to develop the economy along these lines creating stable low interest rates which in turn suppressed the argument for high wage rises and promoted easy credit..

This fundamentally changed society with only two options for housing individuals savings gave little return unless they were invested into high risk shares, so property became a far more valuable commodity and values started to rise soon the working one person was now not earning enough alone to raise enough credit to purchase so the norm became two working people this started to effect society in other ways family structures changed became more pressured this continued higher house prices depressed wages less skilled jobs more people working full time doing several jobs and yet still unable to raise enough credit and lenders constantly increasing the lend to lone rate until the only way onto the housing market for most was to have very a substantial deposit.

The bank of mum and dad became the new normal but only for those who could afford it for millions of others that was not an option for the first since the start of the welfare state the uk had a large proportion who were two adults working full time across a number of jobs and we finding that they were not able to earn enough to support a family pay the rent or to get onto the housing market.

Then the financial crash of 2010 gave the right of British politics an opportunity to squeeze big government and the services it provided which the right was ideologically not in favour of supporting it did this under the guise of paying off the national debt within an unreasonable timeline this was compounded by Brexit and Covid19 the Government in a desperate act to kick an economy into life announces that it would introduce a freeze on stamp duty to reduce house buying creating a house purchasing boom but it has inadvertently increased house prices by 6% making hosing even more unattainable

It is a sad state of affairs that the very reasonable aspiration of working hard, saving hard and then buying a house has been so undermined.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It makes me feel physically sick to the pit of my stomach knowing I'm doing a shit job of providing my family with a stable life..

You seem a sensible, fair and decent person, you clearly care for your family, you are someone who has skills which employers seem to like given you’re employment record and recent job offers, and you are comfortable communicating openly about your feelings. I appreciate you’re finding things tough at the moment and I totally get where you’re coming from but please don’t overlook the fact you have many key and very desirable father and husband qualities. You’re not “doing a shit job”.

Best wishes and look after yourself

 

[peterward]

I dont think I want to go back the way I've been treated. If they're that quick to just **** me over then who's to say they won't do it again? I need security first.

I spent 5 years as a mature student working up to HNC on day release gaining top marks throughout from work whilst working 12hr days and raising my daughter from birth (she's now 6 and another 18 month is here as well) to create an opportunity for myself and move up in the world.

All Ive done is go ****ing backwards. Just seems like a complete waste of my time and money getting ****ing nowhere.

If I had life insurance I'd ****ing drive off Ditchling Beacon at full speed if the wife and kids got a decent payout from it. Because I don't seem to be able to find the ****ing answers.

Seriously fella what kind of talk is that? get things into a more correct perspective spongy and dont be so all or nothing, life is hardly ever black and white always shades of grey. Do you really think your other half and kids would sooner have money than you? You're worth far more than a life insurance payout and certainly a lot more than a contract that enriches a bank and will give you ownership of some bricks after you've paid 3.5x the sale price.

There is nobody that will sit on the death bed with those who love them around them and wish they had more money or stuff, its all bollox. The most valuable commodity you have is time, its more precious than anything, how you fill your days, who you give your time to, these are the things those who love you will cherish most, not some carpets and walls.

I have a close friend, was an oil broker in London, drove a brand new Porsche Carrera, swanky London Penthouse, loaded financially, something like 500+k PA and i've had him crying on my shoulder saying he hates his life as its empty, his work is soul destroying and he was bitterly unhappy.......... he's got everything that money could buy but inside he wasn't happy at all.

Don't give up mate on trying to acheive that dream, but also put it into correct priority list in life which is nowhere near as high or as important as you make it, the people in your life are by far the most important and time is your most valuable resource to give to them.

 

[Machiavelli]

I'm 42 sodding years old.

I've come to the conclusion that I should just ****ing give up on the whole dream.

As some of you know I've been saving for the best part of 10 years for a deposit for a house and have a sizeable deposit so it was time to start looking and applying for mortgages.

This was back in March just before the world decided to shit itself to death with Covid19.

Ever since then its just been let down after let down or problem after problem.

The Mrs was due to go back to work part time on April 1st 2020 after her maternity leave had finished so I was desperate to get one before that happened as in doing so her income dropped by £8k a year severely affecting our LTV figures.

Over the next few months all my overtime disappeared as the company I worked for began to struggle costing me over £8k in yearly o/t earnings. Basically the £16k a year we are down has hit us really hard and put paid to any chance of being able to borrow enough to buy anywhere.

So I got a new job in December that involved a big rise in my basic pay and we thought we could be back in the game and be looking at houses now.

I went back to work after Christmas feeling positive and hopeful for the future on the 4th Jan.

On the morning of 5th Jan my car broke down driving to work (£450 for a new alternator). At 10am the MD of the company called me into his office to say they were shutting down due to Lockdown 3 being announced the previous evening and furloughing all staff.

Because I only started in December I couldn't be furloughed so they terminated my employment (I was on 3 month probationary period) so there was **** all I could do but go home and tell the wife.

That afternoon I had an emotional call from my mum to say that Dad (who had been in hospital over christmas) wasn't doing well as they'd had a meeting with Oncology at RSCH and that there was nothing more they could do about his brain tumours and that The Martletts would be taking over palliative care moving forward.

I say luckily in a very ironic way that I've worked quick despite this year being worse than 2020 already that I've managed to find another job so am back into work but its a 30 mile round trip in the car compared to a short bike ride or 3 mile round trip to the last job.

Because of my increased commuting costs I'm actually in a worse off place than I was before I left my other job to take a chance to buy my own place. Now I'm having to use the deposit money to live temporarily and top up our earnings just to keep this rented place over my familys head and pay to get to work.

I've been renting for 10 years and spent over £120,000 paying off other peoples ****ing mortgages instead of my own and its really dragging me down to the depths of despair and depression.

Just how do you do it?

I have a deposit, no loans, credit cards, HP or PCP on cars, we are debt free, we both have good credit ratings and still can't get someone to lend us enough to buy a house as we just don't earn enough money.

It makes me feel physically sick to the pit of my stomach knowing I'm doing a shit job of providing my family with a stable life.

Now things are seriously deteoriating with Dad I just don't know what to ****ing do any more.

Only I could take a shot at doing the best for my family and ending up in a ****ing worse position than when I started.

I've started going down a very dark hole in my mind lately that I can't seem to find a way out of yet and I'm starting to have some intrusive thoughts creep in.

Good luck Spongy. It'll come. Stick with it and, more importantly, you've got loving people around you. Just spend some time with your kids, watch them. They want you with them.

 

[Sirnormangall]

Sorry to hear of your dreadful year. As others have said, stick with it, draw on the love of your family and don’t give up hope of owning your own home.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I’ll always remember listening to radio 2 (I’m only 31 but old before my time) a guy in there who’s paid rent for 15 years, never missed a payment, couldn’t understand why that proof can’t go towards a mortgage, you already proved to the bank you can make all your payments
The problem is, I find, is thay especially the tories, they don’t want everyone to own their house, they want private renters to prosper, maybe the cynic in me here
Trying to but somewhere down south literally boils down to someone unfortunately passing and inheritance money.
Keep strong mate. You’re not the only 1 struggling. Sometimes posting on here is great.


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This.

This country is a predator's delight; conservative working class, love the old queen mum, know their place, don't trust lefties.

My parents went from a flat in 1953 that cost £500, to a bungalow in Rottingdean in 1956 for £1000, waited a bit to start the family, and moved to a semi detached in Portslade in 1963 for £2000. Slow and steady. Never had savings. First family holiday in a hut in New Forest in 1965. But do-able. And in the end, independence, pension and freedom (not that the old man got to enjoy a lot of it, dead at 62, my age now). The narrative is the tories have 'clawed back' all this independence from the plebs to keep us in our place. I find that I can't argue with that narrative. And the plebs sleep walked into it, loving old Maggie, and that . Let's see how Brexit brings them (because it is them, I escaped just in time) salvation.

 

[Sheebo]

A guy genuinely trying to work and not afraid of hard work who clearly holds great values and his family close to his heart - you seem a top guy mate - with a ****ing shit run of luck. I’d just try to get in the ladder now - and things will build up. I was on the ladder for 10 years and eventually ended up with next to nothing to show for it. But I took the positives and got on the ladder again! Put all I could into internal promotions and working hard to get back on - so just go for the smaller house option and build your way up would be my advice - you’ll fall on your feet and get some good luck soon - I promise!

Bud, it’s easy to say keep those dark thoughts at bay but sometimes impossible to do. All I can say is get some professional help. Counsellors and CBT work really well for some. Chin up - you’re doing great it seems!

 

[MattBackHome]

No advice to add [MENTION=20792]spongy[/MENTION] except to say that NSC is with you all the way, and that your reporting of what was said about thermodynamics really made me laugh.

You're doing a great job, keep at it mate.

 

[Worried Man Blues]

Wife and kids = important, load of bricks not so. Don't give up you'll get there one day, last year was a crap year all round, hope you get better luck this, all the best.

 

[Blue3]

It is a sad state of affairs that the very reasonable aspiration of working hard, saving hard and then buying a house has been so undermined.

It's sadly a side effect of the type of capitalism we follow in the UK, since Mrs Thatchers Government until the 2010 crash the mantras followed were "let the markets regulate themselves" " non profitable companies must be allowed to fail" " Reduce State intervention" "Make the UK a global financial economy hub" many other European nations took a very diffrent view and kept their industrial bases working with Government support creating a much more diverse economic portfolio.
The car industry is an obvious example while the uk car industry is no more, on continental Europe France Spain, Italy, Germany and Czech Republic are all fairly strong all having had state backing over the past 40 years.
How can we fix this as a start lenders need to gradually reduce their lend to loan rates ultimately fix them to local average incomes combined with a move to control private rental costs with standard rental rates fixed to state owned public housing these two actions will result in a steady drop in house prices and rental rates while increasing of income tax easing inflation up a little helping investors, savers, pensions.

We need to move the nations idea that home ownership is the ultimate aim of life and that renting is perfectly acceptable because it provides affordable housing with secure tenure, encourage new industries with some state backing on the proviso that the companies support accredited training for those they employ