[Misc] IF there's a Christmas lockdown - would you comply?

[The Clamp]

It's completely irrelevant what your opinion of my opinion is.

I was just explaining that your understanding of the purpose of a lockdown is clearly incorrect.

A lockdown is to keep case numbers manageable. Having only vulnerable & unvaccinated people self isolate would not achieve that goal, if numbers became so high that lockdown was necessary.

Incorrect. Vaccinated people don’t infect vaccinated people. You and others that have refused the vaccine have extended this lockdown and cost lives. That’s not opinion, that’s fact.

We’ll see how long you hold out if you can’t go anywhere.

Good day.

 

[Brighthelmstone]

Means avoiding time with the Mother In Law, of course I'm complying!!

 

[The Clamp]

You either have an extremely poor understanding of the virus, or you're spreading a dangerous lie here.

It is well understood by, well at least I thought until now, everyone that vaccinated people are spreaders of the virus, including to other vaccinated people.

If vaccinated people believe that they can no longer spread the virus, then they are likely to change their behaviours, including if they knowingly have the virus... and that genuinely is very dangerous.

The point is they are very unlikely to end up in hospital. I should have said vaccinated people are not likely to make other vaccinated people ill.
Lockdowns are to stop the NHS getting overwhelmed.
Unvaccinated people walking around and transmitting Covid to other unvaccinated people are what is filling up hospitals, costing lives and extending the pandemic for all of us.
If this government had any sense they’d get the unvaccinated locked down tomorrow. like other countries have done. Sensible and will save lives.

Covid passes are the first step, then I would t be surprised if we went full lockdown for the unvaccinated. As other places have done.

Do the right thing. Get vaccinated. Save lives. Doctors, the scientific community, my two doctor friends, my pharmacist friend and my GP are of the opinion that people need to get vaccinated, assuming immunity is making people ill. That’s good enough for me.

Churchill Sq is still open. If it makes no odds to you as you claim, then just get it done. Unless you’re an anti-vaxxer.

Have a great weekend, genuinely. And please do consider the vaccine. It really does save lives.

 

[e77]

I don't think there will be any lockdown restrictions in place by Christmas but if there was I would follow them. Problem is we could go a long way if people would view their Christmas plans through the Covid lens and review them and instead of having a dozen extended family meet on Christmas Day have several smaller gatherings.

I live in Worthing which apparently has a population of about 110,000 people and I am having to go to Brighton to get a booster jab (as I did with both my previous ones). If you try and book an appointment the nearest is Brighton (with some pop up ones round Hove) or Chichester. It isn't the end of the world for me as I will jump on a train and combine it with a visit to Resident Records but it isn't the way to encourage people to do it. I have just turned 48 so next Wednesday was the earliest I could get it done under the old six month rule and there wasn't much better available when the rule changed so I am still unbolted.

I am against mandatory vaccines as I think them unworkable, however if Boris Johnson - a man who will do just about anything to avoid a decision - is saying there needs to be a national conversation about the unvaccinated then that suggests the direction of travel with restrictions will be a difference between the vaccinated and unvaccinated.

 

[TheJasperCo]

Ignoring the advice of experts would make us just as stupid as the Government, which they have clearly demonstrated, and I'm above that.

..So, yes - If there was a lockdown I'd comply because I'm not a twunt.

You may ride that impeccably high horse, safe in the knowledge that others will choose not to forego a second Christmas season without jeopardising our mental health or worrying if we will stand to see our loved ones face-to-face again.

Experts in epidemiology and immunology...aren't always experts in compassion and human relationships.

So while my family and I may be twunts in your eyes, I can rest happy knowing that I don't think anything of you at all.

Triple vaccinated, mask-wearing, hand-washing, LFT-testing twunts.

 

[smudge]

Yes, because I believe the scientists, and I'd do it to support the NHS, and most obviously for the safety of my family & others.
Nothing to do about political opinion, but I feel for the vast majority, they make it political. Selfishness seems to be winning in this country.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I don't think there will be any lockdown restrictions in place by Christmas but if there was I would follow them. Problem is we could go a long way if people would view their Christmas plans through the Covid lens and review them and instead of having a dozen extended family meet on Christmas Day have several smaller gatherings.

I live in Worthing which apparently has a population of about 110,000 people and I am having to go to Brighton to get a booster jab (as I did with both my previous ones). If you try and book an appointment the nearest is Brighton (with some pop up ones round Hove) or Chichester. It isn't the end of the world for me as I will jump on a train and combine it with a visit to Resident Records but it isn't the way to encourage people to do it. I have just turned 48 so next Wednesday was the earliest I could get it done under the old six month rule and there wasn't much better available when the rule changed so I am still unbolted.

I am against mandatory vaccines as I think them unworkable, however if Boris Johnson - a man who will do just about anything to avoid a decision - is saying there needs to be a national conversation about the unvaccinated then that suggests the direction of travel with restrictions will be a difference between the vaccinated and unvaccinated.

Apart fromt the first following the restrictions bit I agree with this (OMG)

I would say I think we have already had the discussion - a year of saying you should get vaccine because XYZ and if you still choose not to thats on you now, It shouldnt be mandatory still.

 

[The Clamp]

There’s a reason we have Covid passes. If we don’t go into lockdown for the unvaccinated, it’s only because Boris Johnson is restriction adverse. Still, great that people are considering suffering a lockdown and then re-emerging, still unvaccinated to start spreading the virus again. Leading us back into another lockdown

It’s really quite the most stupid attitude I think I’ve seen on these threads.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Problem being is that we are likely to be inflicted with lockdowns to some extent almost permanently unless the vaccine becomes all-embracing, as every time there is a covid flare up the government, scientist and health service immediately panic. Two years on and they still haven't come up with anything better.

 

[e77]

I can't see them having restrictions on the unvaccinated purely because at this time we really need to protect our pubs and hospitality, especially given the hit they've taken due to the Christmas party cancellations.

For me, I don't really mind what they choose to do. Whether it's a full lockdown, or just restrictions of the unvaccinated as an act of coercion, I'll comply and get through this winter just like the previous one, having saved a lot money just like the previous one.

Hopefully though, in the next couple of weeks, there'll be evidence that omicron is indeed a weaker strain and a lockdown or further restrictions won't be necessary.

I certainly agree with you on the last part!

 

[e77]

Apart fromt the first following the restrictions bit I agree with this (OMG)

I would say I think we have already had the discussion - a year of saying you should get vaccine because XYZ and if you still choose not to thats on you now, It shouldnt be mandatory still.

We had to agree on something eventually!

There are going to be new strains appearing forever now, although hopefully after a few years it will be similar to flu strains, and a consensus needs to be formed about what we do going forward. I kind of get why people would hold off and let others try it first or why pregnant women would wait until giving birth but as you say it is a year now.

 

[Artie Fufkin]

Incorrect. Vaccinated people don’t infect vaccinated people. You and others that have refused the vaccine have extended this lockdown and cost lives. That’s not opinion, that’s fact.

We’ll see how long you hold out if you can’t go anywhere.

Good day.

The point is they are very unlikely to end up in hospital. I should have said vaccinated people are not likely to make other vaccinated people ill.
Lockdowns are to stop the NHS getting overwhelmed.
Unvaccinated people walking around and transmitting Covid to other unvaccinated people are what is filling up hospitals, costing lives and extending the pandemic for all of us.
If this government had any sense they’d get the unvaccinated locked down tomorrow. like other countries have done. Sensible and will save lives.

Covid passes are the first step, then I would t be surprised if we went full lockdown for the unvaccinated. As other places have done.

Do the right thing. Get vaccinated. Save lives. Doctors, the scientific community, my two doctor friends, my pharmacist friend and my GP are of the opinion that people need to get vaccinated, assuming immunity is making people ill. That’s good enough for me.

Churchill Sq is still open. If it makes no odds to you as you claim, then just get it done. Unless you’re an anti-vaxxer.

Have a great weekend, genuinely. And please do consider the vaccine. It really does save lives.

Speaking from first hand experience I can categorically say that this is incorrect, and worrying to see that people might think that to be true, even after all this time.

 

[The Clamp]

Speaking from first hand experience I can categorically say that this is incorrect, and worrying to see that people might think that to be true, even after all this time.

Yes, my first statement was typed on error. You’re correct.
Triple Vaccinated people are not likely to become seriously ill. If there weren’t benefits from having a vaccine, we wouldn’t have it.
And not to diminish your experience, personal experience cannot make categoric conclusions in this case.

Vaccinated people are unlikely to make other vaccinated people ill enough to need hospital treatment. Is that how you would like it phrased?

It doesn’t matter how many different ways people prefer me to say it. Unvaccinated people are costing lives. Vaccinated people are unlikely to. Vaccination prevents most patient ending up in hospitals. End of.

 

[drew]

I can't see them having restrictions on the unvaccinated purely because at this time we really need to protect our pubs and hospitality, especially given the hit they've taken due to the Christmas party cancellations.

For me, I don't really mind what they choose to do. Whether it's a full lockdown, or just restrictions of the unvaccinated as an act of coercion, I'll comply and get through this winter just like the previous one, having saved a lot money just like the previous one.

Hopefully though, in the next couple of weeks, there'll be evidence that omicron is indeed a weaker strain and a lockdown or further restrictions won't be necessary.

So you think the unvaccinated are keeping the hospitality industry afloat. Here's a thought, maybe vaccinated people might be more confident to go out if they new they wouldn't encounter the unvaccinated.

Personally, would be quite happy for unvaccinated to have restrictions placed on them.

 

[drew]

Yes, my first statement was typed on error. You’re correct.
Triple Vaccinated people are not likely to become seriously ill. If there weren’t benefits from having a vaccine, we wouldn’t have it.
And not to diminish your experience, personal experience cannot make categoric conclusions in this case.

Vaccinated people are unlikely to make other vaccinated people ill enough to need hospital treatment. Is that how you would like it phrased?

It doesn’t matter how many different ways people prefer me to say it. Unvaccinated people are costing lives. Vaccinated people are unlikely to. Vaccination prevents most patient ending up in hospitals. End of.

Whilst I'm in the same camp as you, I'm not sure the highlighted statement is correct. The virus is the virus. It's the same whether you get it from a vaccinated person or an unvaccinated one. It's not the fact that you catch it from a vaccinated person that minimises your chances of hospitalisation but the fact that you are vaccinated yourself.

I stand to be corrected but would be interested where you got that information from?

 

[Wardy's twin]

whats the end goal here though? COVID isn't going away, we can't keep going back into lockdown every time a new variant appears. that's simply unfeasible.

So if COVID is not going away , rather than say let's go back to normal i.e. before covid why don't we accept that we need to change to accommodate it a new 'normal' with mandatory masks and mandatory injections and/or use of COVID passports.

75% of hospital covid beds use is down to unvaccinated people , mainly in the young and less risk areas but occupying beds that deny all sorts of treatment to go ahead . The 25% who were vaccinated are generally suffering from side effects because they are vulnerable.

 

[The Clamp]

Whilst I'm in the same camp as you, I'm not sure the highlighted statement is correct. The virus is the virus. It's the same whether you get it from a vaccinated person or an unvaccinated one. It's not the fact that you catch it from a vaccinated person that minimises your chances of hospitalisation but the fact that you are vaccinated yourself.

I stand to be corrected but would be interested where you got that information from?

What I’m trying to write, in my clumsy way. Is that if you are vaccinated you are a lot less likely to get seriously ill. And less likely to transmit the virus.


Or this;

Vaccinated People Can Transmit the Coronavirus, but It’s Still More Likely If You’re Unvaccinated. Fully vaccinated people are also less likely to contract the coronavirus than unvaccinated people. If they don’t contract an infection, they can’t transmit the virus to others.

COVID-19 vaccines continue to protect against severe illness but do not entirely block transmission.

Fully vaccinated people are also less likely to contract the coronavirus than unvaccinated people.

Experts emphasize that wider vaccine coverage is needed to ensure that when people have an infection, they are well protected against severe COVID-19.

https://www.healthline.com/health-n...t-its-still-more-likely-if-youre-unvaccinated


https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00690-3/fulltext

As far as I know, this still stands. Happy to be convincingly corrected.

 

[goldstone]

Not a chance in hell of me complying. I have definitely had enough of this. We need to make our own decisions, not be ordered around by the government.

 

[The Clamp]

I'm on the fence. I'm unvaccinated and don't really mind what restrictions come into place this winter for me as long as it's only for the winter. I'll be furious if they mandated a vaccine for me though, would even protest and make things as difficult as possible for them.

The problem the government has in the vaccine push is that the demographic that they desperately need to get vaccinated, over 40's, aren't often the same group that spend a lot in hospitality, eg. students, young professionals.

If I was the government I would avoid any further restrictions, but mandate viruses for over 50's as there is evidence that the unvaccinated over 50's are what is causing this strain on the NHS. This sounds hypocritical, but it's not as I would have voluntarily been vaccinated at the earliest opportunity if I was that age.

Over 40’s spend the most in venues and hospitality. They might not be out three times a week but when they do go out they spend a lot. My wallet can back that up!

Young, unvaccinated people who thought they were either immune or are against vaccination full stop are the bulk of people now in hospital with Covid. So what sense does it make to wait until you’re over 50?

And no, we absolutely should not have mandatory vaccination. I agree.


As for the rest of all the rationalising you keep doing over vaccinations? Well, I think I’ve made myself clear.

Do the right thing. Get vaccinated. Save lives.

 

[drew]

I'm on the fence. I'm unvaccinated and don't really mind what restrictions come into place this winter for me as long as it's only for the winter. I'll be furious if they mandated a vaccine for me though, would even protest and make things as difficult as possible for them.

The problem the government has in the vaccine push is that the demographic that they desperately need to get vaccinated, over 40's, aren't often the same group that spend a lot in hospitality, eg. students, young professionals.

If I was the government I would avoid any further restrictions, but mandate viruses for over 50's as there is evidence that the unvaccinated over 50's are what is causing this strain on the NHS. This sounds hypocritical, but it's not as I would have voluntarily been vaccinated at the earliest opportunity if I was that age.

Not sure that last paragraph makes sense. Think the consensus was that the virus is spread more by the young than the old. The original target demographic was the most vulnerable, ie the old. This has then progressed down the through the age bands to the extent that all over 12s are now being targeted to have the vaccine. Reduce the spread by vaccinating those most likely to spread it, ie the young.

Personally think there should be more restrictions and that they need to be enforced. Unlikely with this lame government.