[Politics] If there was a general election tomorrow

[Notters]

Because they are the best of bad bunch.

The Greens are nutjobs
Lib Dems completely useless
Labour the party of tax rises and morons like Diane Abbott, Emily Thornberry and Rebecca Wrong Daily.

No thank you.

This is the best answer to my poorly phrased question so far. Unfortunately tax rises are inevitable whoever is in charge now.
Not that I see tax rises as a bad thing but I get that view.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

I'm not avoiding anything and I don't need to justify myself to you!
I explained in the other post why Corbyn is relevant to this conversation but funnily enough you're avoiding that angle.

This is why people keep quiet, there's no point in wasting my time debating with someone who won't listen.

I’m ‘avoiding’ indulging in your whataboutery because it is utterly irrelevant what would or wouldn’t have happened if Corbyn was PM. Johnson is PM and his handling of this crisis has been appalling. I’m sorry I don’t see the need to take a trip in yours, or anyone else’s, fantasy land in order to avoid these hard truths.

 

[Theatre of Trees]

Be honest , if a foreigner told you how to run your business , you`d tell him , i run it my way by my rules not yours .

Except markets don't work that way. If you want to sell or operate in them then you have to follow the rules of that market. That is what all those new trade deals will be about.

 

[TugWilson]

We're not negotiating to get our fishing grounds back, they're ours as we aren't part of Europe. What I assume we are trying to negotiate is how we sell the fish we catch bearing in mind a lot of it goes to Europe anyway and whether we will licence EU fishing boats to enter our waters to catch fish just like some of our fishing fleet will want to enter French waters to catch fish.

But as someone else has said, what have we not be able to do? As a sovereign nation, think we went to war with Argentina with seeking permission from the EU and the same, more controversially, in Iraq.

Thanks , i appreciate a little heads up , i wasn`t aware of that . The Falklands are a part of the UK , we shouldn`t need permission to defend them . As for what we have not been able to do , kick out known EU criminals because the European Court ruled it`s against their human rights . Kick out illegal immigrants , whilst being shepherded toward the UK by France .

" The EU has been in default of it`s obligation`s under the withdrawal treaty since it was signed and has in effect broken international law " .

 

[GT49er]

You’ve taken it to extreme in the first para for effect, i am not in that camp but in relative terms not absolute we have done extremely poorly. Actually diabolically and its costs more our compatriots their lives than it should have.

On Nz, they may have some inherent advantages like population dispersion but they are an island like us. We are miles behind Ireland, what is their inherent advantage? Further behind Germany, whats theirs? Austria, Netherlands, Canada, Sweden etc. Basically all bar 6 or 7.

I think your argument is that we guessed poorly relative to others to be in the bottom 5% of deaths per capita and gdp. I don't agree it boils down to guesses

Distance makes a huge difference (NZ, Australia) as does population density (Poland, Canada, Sweden) - and the population's propensity to comply with the rules (we're well down on that score!)
By and large though, I absolutely stand by my opinion that some leaders have guessed better than others (on the strength of varied and conflicting scientific advice, of course) and that that is a major factor.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Distance makes a huge difference (NZ, Australia) as does population density (Poland, Canada, Sweden) - and the population's propensity to comply with the rules (we're well down on that score!)
By and large though, I absolutely stand by my opinion that some leaders have guessed better than others (on the strength of varied and conflicting scientific advice, of course) and that that is a major factor.

Fair enough. I don't agree on distance to others for an island country, its a choice on wether to block inward flow, the handful that would get in by boat can be managed. Agree density must have an impact and compliance. Even then though we lag. But i disagree on guessing. We knew about pandemics, we ran exercises on them only a few years ago, said we were one of the most prepared countries etc. We weren't and that coupled with erratic and slow leadership that was always behind the curve has cost more lives than would otherwise have been lost

 

[Notters]

Posts like this are massively unhelpful.

You may say you’ve not directly called people who voted for this government ‘evil’, but you may as well have done.

Yes, I appreciate that now. Though I do see the apparent overt racism displayed by some of them as justification enough, don't you?

 

[TugWilson]

Except markets don't work that way. If you want to sell or operate in them then you have to follow the rules of that market. That is what all those new trade deals will be about.

Absolutely , but your aim is to sell your product , not to make it so difficult to buy that your customer goes elsewhere . The EU want you to sell your product so that it benefits multiple partners , that can only mean your share is reduced . However sell the product on your own directly to your customer and , no third , fourth or fifth party . You get your asking price and your customer will pay less , because he is only paying you .
The new trade deals will be between us and the relevant country , not between us and a conglomerate .

 

[Billy the Fish]

I’m ‘avoiding’ indulging in your whataboutery because it is utterly irrelevant what would or wouldn’t have happened if Corbyn was PM. Johnson is PM and his handling of this crisis has been appalling. I’m sorry I don’t see the need to take a trip in yours, or anyone else’s, fantasy land in order to avoid these hard truths.

I'll keep voting, you can keep bleating about it on the internet.

 

[Theatre of Trees]

Absolutely , but your aim is to sell your product , not to make it so difficult to buy that your customer goes elsewhere . The EU want you to sell your product so that it benefits multiple partners , that can only mean your share is reduced . However sell the product on your own directly to your customer and , no third , fourth or fifth party . You get your asking price and your customer will pay less , because he is only paying you .
The new trade deals will be between us and the relevant country , not between us and a conglomerate .

No it isn't, goods cannot travel from one country to another without an agreement of some form, whether that is through a trading bloc, a single trade treaty or by a set of rules followed by the WTO - there is no international trade equivalent of the bloke who sets up a suitcase on the High Street then runs off when the authorities appear.

The EU want you to sell the product in competition with others within that market whilst abiding by the same rules that other competitors operate by. All trade deals from those outside the EU also follow the same rules of that market. Likewise all trade deals with other countries will require our goods to follow local market conditions - as an example after the outbreak of Mad Cow Disease in the 1990s the US banned all imports of beef from the UK which was only lifted in 2019 after a number of inspections by US officials.

Local internal markets also have rules which prevents cowboys from sticking sawdust into bread or widdling into bottles and passing it off as Heineken.

 

[TugWilson]

I do have a good knowledge of economics and politics but you don't need that just open your eyes and ears to understand effects of globalisation. Our high street is being wiped out by an American company (Amazon) , our key utilities companies are owned by foreign firms , just recently France and the rest of the EU closed their borders to us , we had no control over them.

You didn't comment on Suez.

You also infer we have been spending less on the military because we are in the EU , we are spending less money because we have less overseas assets to protect, absolutely nothing to do with the EU infact possibly more to a lot of big organisations getting away without paying the correct levels of tax.

Japanese deal is projected to be better, time will tell though BUT we trade significantly less with Japan than we do the rest of the EU. More importantly when looking at the worlds ecology wouldn't it be better to trade with countries nearest you.

I didn`t comment on Suez because i don`t have the knowledge . As for your comments above , it is very obvious that i need to read more . You seem to have more than a passing interest in all this , the only thing i really care about is the environment . As i said what i know of politics and economics you could write on the back of a postage stamp with a highlighter . But i enjoy the banter , and if i learn something by mistake well that`ll do . Thanks for the heads up , i will get back to you when i have something worth saying .

 

[JC Footy Genius]

You're saying a Corbyn lead Labour government would've done better, I'm giving you reasons why I think it wouldn't.

Everything else you've written is just emotive claptrap

Unfortunately, there are some on the left who can be rather sanctimonious and hypocritical not that they would ever admit it obviously. Just to add we have an example within the Uk of how a Labour-led administration would tackle the pandemic ...

Wales now has the second worst coronavirus infection rate in the world

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/wales-second-worst-covid-coronavirus-19506904

Strangely, Starmer who is supposedly appalled by failings in the UK Tory government (fair enough there have been many) has nothing to say about the one part of the UK where his party takes most of the decisions.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

I'll keep voting, you can keep bleating about it on the internet.

Sorry, remind me, out of the two of us, who brought JC into the mix to avoid the reality of the situation? And don’t you worry, I’ll keep voting too. But you can be rest assured it won’t be for MPs who vote against feeding hungry kids

 

[Wardy's twin]

I didn`t comment on Suez because i don`t have the knowledge . As for your comments above , it is very obvious that i need to read more . You seem to have more than a passing interest in all this , the only thing i really care about is the environment . As i said what i know of politics and economics you could write on the back of a postage stamp with a highlighter . But i enjoy the banter , and if i learn something by mistake well that`ll do . Thanks for the heads up , i will get back to you when i have something worth saying .

Well we do have something in common if we both care about the environment. Sorry if you thought i was being patronising.

Suez in a nutshell - Egypt had been under the British 'influence' for 100 years mainly due to our need to control the Suez Canal There was a change of government in Egypt when the monarchy was kicked out and replaced by a military/nationalist government led by Nasser. Britain & France didn't like what they were seeing develop especially Nasser's ideas to take control of the canal from Britain. Britain and France did a deal with Israel, the latter would attack Egypt but would then pull back when Britain intervened militarily to stop the war ( but our real aim was to get rid off Nasser). It was all going well until the USA told us to get out (they now saw it as their territory) and to prove the point started to manipulate finance matters in Britain. We left tails between our legs and Sir Anthony Eden resigned.

 

[rogersix]

Absolutely , but your aim is to sell your product , not to make it so difficult to buy that your customer goes elsewhere . The EU want you to sell your product so that it benefits multiple partners , that can only mean your share is reduced . However sell the product on your own directly to your customer and , no third , fourth or fifth party . You get your asking price and your customer will pay less , because he is only paying you .
The new trade deals will be between us and the relevant country , not between us and a conglomerate .

you don't get this

 

[TugWilson]

No it isn't, goods cannot travel from one country to another without an agreement of some form, whether that is through a trading bloc, a single trade treaty or by a set of rules followed by the WTO - there is no international trade equivalent of the bloke who sets up a suitcase on the High Street then runs off when the authorities appear.

The EU want you to sell the product in competition with others within that market whilst abiding by the same rules that other competitors operate by. All trade deals from those outside the EU also follow the same rules of that market. Likewise all trade deals with other countries will require our goods to follow local market conditions - as an example after the outbreak of Mad Cow Disease in the 1990s the US banned all imports of beef from the UK which was only lifted in 2019 after a number of inspections by US officials.

Local internal markets also have rules which prevents cowboys from sticking sawdust into bread or widdling into bottles and passing it off as Heineken.

OK enough with the whoosh over the head , i`m trying to have a chat and maybe learn a thing or two . Right so no three wheeled vans , i assumed as a single entity the UK would have more choice and therefore get a better deal . I never thought everything would be easy , obviously there are trade agreements and rules to be followed , but we were the Empire where the sun never set . Surely we havn`t forgotten how to trade .

ps , thanks for the heads up on the Heineken

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

No. Worthing West is a very safe Tory seat thankfully.

and...each to his own, of course

 

[TugWilson]

you don't get this

No , but dont worry i`m a slow learner

 

[TugWilson]

Well we do have something in common if we both care about the environment. Sorry if you thought i was being patronising.

Suez in a nutshell - Egypt had been under the British 'influence' for 100 years mainly due to our need to control the Suez Canal There was a change of government in Egypt when the monarchy was kicked out and replaced by a military/nationalist government led by Nasser. Britain & France didn't like what they were seeing develop especially Nasser's ideas to take control of the canal from Britain. Britain and France did a deal with Israel, the latter would attack Egypt but would then pull back when Britain intervened militarily to stop the war ( but our real aim was to get rid off Nasser). It was all going well until the USA told us to get out (they now saw it as their territory) and to prove the point started to manipulate finance matters in Britain. We left tails between our legs and Sir Anthony Eden resigned.

Much appreciated Wardy`s twin

 

[GT49er]

Yes, I appreciate that now. Though I do see the apparent overt racism displayed by some of them as justification enough, don't you?

You mean like, some of them are racist, so therefore that justifies any abuse towards the rest? Fair enough, there has certainly been some of that on here (fortunately removed to trash bins like the bear pot and the Brexit thread).