If Boro play a 5 man midfield how does 4-4-2 counteract this?

[Machiavelli]

I definitely think we should stick to 4-4-2, but not over-commit in the first half or first 60 minutes. As has been indicated especially on the Roar, it's not just a question of systems but how they're deployed, and how the players interpret them -- think, for instance, of how Atletico play that system, and this might be our opening gambit.
Playing it over, or playing it out wide swiftly, is the way to counteract the midfield overload, as many have commented. I suspect it will be playing out wide that will be our most effective way of countering them, which raises the question of who will play out wide. As much as I can see the importance of Skalak's set pieces in general, and even more specifically to this game, I think that does point towards Murphy, as he's able to carry the ball long distances, and start opening up spaces which will hopefully be exacerbated by Baldock's movement.

 

[BoroBadger]

What other games have we lost then? Enlighten me?

We havent conceded 2 at the Riverside in a league game since 2014- that isnt going to change on saturday either!

Nor have we lost a game when we have scored the first goal.

I appreciate your cacking it at the prospect of the long trek to Sheffield but the facts doth speak!

 

[Mellotron]

We havent conceded 2 at the Riverside in a league game since 2014- that isnt going to change on saturday either!

Why isn't it? When did you last play a team as free-scoring as ours currently is?

Who is going to stop Anthony Knockaert? Is it someone just coming back from an injury? Good luck with stopping him.

There is no pressure on us and SHITLOADS on your lot - how will you cope with that?

Karanka already walked out once - and there's clearly huge issues there, he's nowhere near as level-headed a manager as Chris Hughton, who has been here and done this before. Twice. Karanka hasn't.

I've watched your last 2-3 games closely. You don't look very good. Derby were FAR better against us than you have been in weeks and we still drew and had double the shots on target they did. Have seen your goalie as well, it's going to be "shoot as soon as you're in their half"!

Good luck mate! No pressure...

 

[Bozza]

What other games have we lost then?

You lost at Wembley to Norwich. Painful I appreciate, and you've tried to forget it, but it did happen. I was merely responding to that one point about your central defenders only having lost one game and that was Fulham away. It's wrong.

You are the favourites. You should have been up weeks ago.

We've over-achieved and have nothing to lose.

Perhaps you can help us on a question one of your peers kept ignoring. Where did the 11 point lead and game in hand disappear to?

 

[Bigtomfu]

This is exactly what Hemed/Baldock do. Suprisingly against Derby it was Hemed more than Baldock. Presumably to add some physicality before playing it to Baldock. Who then kept the ball until Bruno/Rosenior/Skalak/Knockeart gave him an option.

We tried this but Baldock was muscled out of it and nearly always resulted in the ball being lost and recycled by Derby.

If Boro play a five man midfield (they won't) then this is how we'll counter it.

Boro play one way. It's incredibly effective but there's is not a happy camp and we have spirit and an ability to mix up our game. I'm not saying we'll do it, but we do stand a chance. If we go one up, I expect a lot of finger pointing and anger between the Boro squad. If Boro go one up I expect us to dust ourselves off and keep going - will that be enough? Anyone's guess. Too close to call. Realists will say Boro have the edge, but football has thrown up bigger surprises and for what it's worth I think we'll win.

I'm in the minority here but I just worry that with the fervent northern home support we might get steamrollered like Derby away in the Play Offs.

Not normally this pessimistic and the hope I have is that CH is both more committed and organised than Oscar was.

Frankly it would just be nice if we end up in the play offs not to have a manager resign if we fail.

 

[Biscuit]

We tried this but Baldock was muscled out of it and nearly always resulted in the ball being lost and recycled by Derby.

We've done this plenty all season, and it's worked very well for us. Probably the reason Baldock/Hemed is CH's first choice pair upfront. That and Baldock's incredible movement off the ball.

I'm in the minority here but I just worry that with the fervent northern home support we might get steamrollered like Derby away in the Play Offs.

Not normally this pessimistic and the hope I have is that CH is both more committed and organised than Oscar was.

Frankly it would just be nice if we end up in the play offs not to have a manager resign if we fail.

That game against Derby isn't comparable at all. From memory we had loads of first team injuries, didn't Calderon have to start? And then after twenty minutes Greer got crocked so we had to put Chicksen on. A left-back so poor, we wouldn't play him when we had a massive injury crisis at left back. It meant we were forced to field four or five players under 21. It was men against boys.

OK Dunk's out, but we have Greer to slot in and Hünemeier on the bench. It's not comparable.

 

[BoroBadger]

We blew it! We all thought we should have been up weeks ago too!

We had a dip in form, coupled with Karanka fannying about too much and losing it with the players- we never ever vary from 4-2-3-1, which is infuriating! Then we had him walk out and we blew our lead by losing to Charlton. Karanka is a very marmite character on Teesside...

 

[sparkie]

We blew it! We all thought we should have been up weeks ago too!

We had a dip in form, coupled with Karanka fannying about too much and losing it with the players- we never ever vary from 4-2-3-1, which is infuriating! Then we had him walk out and we blew our lead by losing to Charlton. Karanka is a very marmite character on Teesside...

Someone posted that he appears to auditioning for a part in Poyet : The Movie. Has he talked about ceilings yet ?

 

[Bozza]

We blew it! We all thought we should have been up weeks ago too!

We had a dip in form, coupled with Karanka fannying about too much and losing it with the players- we never ever vary from 4-2-3-1, which is infuriating! Then we had him walk out and we blew our lead by losing to Charlton. Karanka is a very marmite character on Teesside...

Blimey - a Boro fan hinting at some element of weakness. I knew there would be one out there somewhere...

 

[bn1&bn3 Albion]

There is no question whatsoever in my mind that if this game was played about 1/2 months earlier, Hughton would be starting Sidwell in a 5 with Kayal and Stephens. And we'd think "fair enough, a draw at Boro would be a decent result". And I think we'd probably get it.

Now that it's a straight shootout, I think this is Hughton's biggest dilemma.

Really not sure which way he'll go, but I trust that there will be plenty of logic and rationale behind his decision. I can actually see the logic in almost trying to keep the game at 0-0 til about 65-70mins, hoping that Boro will get nervy, and then suddenly ATTACK.

Please no, my nerves couldn't deal with keeping it at 0-0 for that long...

 

[LlcoolJ]

Please no, my nerves couldn't deal with keeping it at 0-0 for that long...

I'd be well happy with nil nil at that stage.

 

[perseus]

Only Derby play 4-3-3 (not the classic system though). A few teams play 4-2-3-1: Boro, QPR.

Burnley play 4-4-2 like most teams. Ours is more like 4-2-4 though.

Wednesday play 4-4-2/ 4-4-1-1.

I think Bruno pushed up too far against Boro at home and this was a tactical mistake. We did the same thing v Charlton in the home match before and we repeated the mistake. https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/959387/Live/England-Championship-2015-2016-Brighton-Middlesbrough We were at least five players missing v Boro at home.

Boro are 1/3 on to win or draw and 1/4 on to win promotion.

 

[bn1&bn3 Albion]

I'd be well happy with nil nil at that stage.

I think 5-0 up with Boro down to 9 will help my nerves..

 

[Borojack]

You lost at Wembley to Norwich. Painful I appreciate, and you've tried to forget it, but it did happen. I was merely responding to that one point about your central defenders only having lost one game and that was Fulham away. It's wrong.

You are the favourites. You should have been up weeks ago.

We've over-achieved and have nothing to lose.

Perhaps you can help us on a question one of your peers kept ignoring. Where did the 11 point lead and game in hand disappear to?

View attachment 74297

Just been reading through the forum as it has been linked on our forum today. Just to add the point previous poster was getting at. He was close but not quite there. We (boro) have lost 1 LEAGUE game in over 2 seasons when Ayala/Gibson start together. That loss as half pointed out above was the crazy game at Fulham when tactics went out the window. As you have rightly pointed out though they have been beaten together in the play off final last year, I think stats go out the window in a game like this it's almost a play off final itself

 

[Exile]

That game against Derby isn't comparable at all. From memory we had loads of first team injuries, didn't Calderon have to start? And then after twenty minutes Greer got crocked so we had to put Chicksen on. A left-back so poor, we wouldn't play him when we had a massive injury crisis at left back. It meant we were forced to field four or five players under 21. It was men against boys.
.

........................Kuszczak
Calderon Greer (Chicksen 24) Dunk Ward
Buckley ...... Ince Andrews........ Orlandi
.....................Ulloa ..Lingard

Ward to CB after 24 minutes, Chicksen at LB. Defence was a shambles. The rest of the team actually doesn't look bad on paper!

OK Dunk's out, but we have Greer to slot in and Hünemeier on the bench. It's not comparable.

Are you guessing at that? I've not seen anything, anywhere to suggest that Uwe is fit to play?

 

[Bigtomfu]

We've done this plenty all season, and it's worked very well for us. Probably the reason Baldock/Hemed is CH's first choice pair upfront. That and Baldock's incredible movement off the ball.



That game against Derby isn't comparable at all. From memory we had loads of first team injuries, didn't Calderon have to start? And then after twenty minutes Greer got crocked so we had to put Chicksen on. A left-back so poor, we wouldn't play him when we had a massive injury crisis at left back. It meant we were forced to field four or five players under 21. It was men against boys.

OK Dunk's out, but we have Greer to slot in and Hünemeier on the bench. It's not comparable.

It was more a gut feeling of how I think it might go more than a direct comparison tbf but I take your points.

Either way I'll be cheering my head off!

 

[Rugrat]

With a 4-4-2 against a 4-5-1 you are going to have to accept that you will have a smaller share of possession and your front pair will have to drop in, "defend from the front" etc and you will be reliant on hitting your wide men quickly when you win the ball. I think this suits us best anyway so the decision for me would be not whether to match them up but to choose between Jiri Skalak's delivery and Jamie Murphy's ability to run with the ball (with Knockaert being a no-brainer to start on the right.) I think I'd be inclined to opt for Murphy on this occasion and put Knockaert on the set-pieces so you are only losing Jiri's delivery in open play. I'm not really sure why Kaz came on for Jiri rather than JM against Derby, I hope CH just felt he was the right choice for the situation rather than JM being out of favour for whatever reason.

Without reading further down I think exactly the same but I'm not sure if that's my naivety or it is the way to go.

One thing's for sure, I enjoy playing at Manager throughout the season, but in this case I am a quivering wreck and very happy that I am nothing to do with anything!

 

[Biscuit]

........................Kuszczak
Calderon Greer (Chicksen 24) Dunk Ward
Buckley ...... Ince Andrews........ Orlandi
.....................Ulloa ..Lingard

Ward to CB after 24 minutes, Chicksen at LB. Defence was a shambles. The rest of the team actually doesn't look bad on paper!



Are you guessing at that? I've not seen anything, anywhere to suggest that Uwe is fit to play?

I heard he was back in training and available from someone I chat to at the match and generally knows about these things,

It was December he did his adductor, so makes sense he would be back by now.

 

[neilbard]

Starting 4-5-1 with Sidwell is very tempting..... for an hour and see where we are at.

If we play 4-5-1 it will suit Boro they are better at it than us and chances are we will find ourselves adrift after an hour! Play our own game and let Boro worry about us!

 

[Bozza]

Just been reading through the forum as it has been linked on our forum today. Just to add the point previous poster was getting at. He was close but not quite there. We (boro) have lost 1 LEAGUE game in over 2 seasons when Ayala/Gibson start together. That loss as half pointed out above was the crazy game at Fulham when tactics went out the window. As you have rightly pointed out though they have been beaten together in the play off final last year, I think stats go out the window in a game like this it's almost a play off final itself

Fair enough. I think we can all work these stats to suit ourselves by excluding various bits and bobs.

In other news, we have gone undefeated against Manchester United at home for 34 years and counting.