[Football] "I don't like VAR any more"

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I appreciate the mention and the essay, but the point is, it's a f**king lottery with key decisions WITH the VAR. And we're (those of us who go to games and made this sport sellable in the first place) just waiting around for the additional wrongness.

VAR should f**k off and, when it gets there, f**k off some more and keep f**king off until it can f**k off no more. And then get buried in a 300 ft hole. In Syria.

The alternative is to rewrite the laws of the game to be less subjective. While that would make the game more 'correct' it would change it from an art to a science and I can't actually think of a greater crime.

Hard to give you a thumbs up and a laugh emoji at the same time. I suspect we may be (after some flirting, flouncing and fluffing) violently agreeing again.

That that would happen? Who knew?

 

[essbee1]

'fluffing'? That's in the compendium Harry!! Love it!!

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

The furore this weekend seems to be from the Arsenal loving media and pundits, that they were robbed of two pens and a win. Pardew was at it tonight on TS.

But the ref/VAR got it spot on. Jesus was involved in a nothing incident 50:50, both players feet/legs touched 4’ off the ground, no foul by anyone. Predictably Jesus collapsed to the ground. Later Cash didn’t commit the offence of handball.

Well done the system on this occasion.

They all seem to be missing the point, it was given as a goal on the pitch so it was up to the VAR to prove it wasn't handball by Havertz.

If they don't even understand the simple processes, I don't know why we should take them seriously.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

No, no, no.

It might not be going away in big tournaments and top leagues but it cannot be implemented lower down the pyramid and at grass roots level. Those are the levels where referees start out. The idea that we should end up with National League South and kids' games refereed naturally by refs still learning their trade, but then, when they become 'good enough' for the PL / internationals they rely on AI and tv cameras. and some halfwit in Heathrow talking over the salient points is absolute lunacy.

Surely it should be the other way around? Refs as they start to qualify are supported by replays and older, more experienced refs. Crowds of less than 200 just watching their relatives develop accept the delays. Referees develop from the experience and can then handle big games by themselves like big boys.

The idea that it should be the other way round is f**king mental.

EPL fans need to unite against this shite. Weeks of protest at every game, every ground, loud and proud on Sky.

It will take managers who have benefitted to start talking out when it happens, can't see Klopp/Arteta "/Howe doing it, can you ?

 

[GT49er]

No, no, no.

It might not be going away in big tournaments and top leagues but it cannot be implemented lower down the pyramid and at grass roots level. Those are the levels where referees start out. The idea that we should end up with National League South and kids' games refereed naturally by refs still learning their trade, but then, when they become 'good enough' for the PL / internationals they rely on AI and tv cameras. and some halfwit in Heathrow talking over the salient points is absolute lunacy.

Surely it should be the other way around? Refs as they start to qualify are supported by replays and older, more experienced refs. Crowds of less than 200 just watching their relatives develop accept the delays. Referees develop from the experience and can then handle big games by themselves like big boys.

The idea that it should be the other way round is f**king mental.

EPL fans need to unite against this shite. Weeks of protest at every game, every ground, loud and proud on Sky.

The whole point that everybody seems to have missed is that football is a game which should be subject to the same rules whether at PL level, Sunday league or U12s school football. One referee, one set of rules, one game.
If the EPL needs to have four officials, plus two earning some easy money in a nice warm room doing VAR, then so should the U12s. Not practical? OK then - no VAR - or 4th. officials - at any level.

 

[Eeyore]

I watched the championship games on TV last night. Given that some of the clips were short, goals only....

Rotherham Swansea: two goals awarded with handballs that would have rightly resulted in 'no goal; handball' decisions.
Sunderland WBA: A goal ruled out for an offside that VAR would have ruled onside
Leicester Plymouth: penalty warded for a decision VAR would have calld 'not a penalty'
Blackburn Leeds: offside goal given as a goal
Shrewsbury Stoke: Penalty given that VAR would have ruled no penalty
Huddersfield Birmingham: handball penalty missed and not given that VAR would have given
Coventry Birmingham: handball pen missed; goal given with 2 offside players blocking GP view

It was a f***ing lottery over key decisions, all of the abover being wrong and all of them correctable by VAR (assuming not managed by the WANKERS who look after it for the EPL.

Nobody complained much about the false decisions however. So provided we accept that 'what happens during the match stays during the match' and not bleat and bitch after 'we wuz robbed' the, yes, I agree with @Guinness Boy, bin VAR.

But....it could be almost perfect with (as we have said so many times), 20 second decision window, unsure then stick with the onfield ref's whimsy, clear blue daylight, and a few other small tweaks (such as VAR ref specialist training then do your f***ing job as the final arbiter).

And....exhale

Oh, and yes, it is here to stay. Like condoms, speed cameras and "it isn't bantz, it's racist".

If it was binned I would like it kept for events that scored a goal. Maybe not offside, but if a player handled the ball into the net (e.g Henry v Ireland)

Obviously, we keep goal line technology. That's universally approved of.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

VAR has a place. I always think of when Ireland were knocked out the World Cup by a clearly handled goal.

I think the offside rule needs a clear margin of error added and the handball rule sorted out.

But the reason we can all remember the Henry handball goal is that it was so rare. I remember saying this when VAR was first brought in - we all want it for the complete howlers but they're relatively rare. What is far more common is 1 inch offsides, debatable fouls and questionable handballs. We might overturn the howler once every five or ten games, but we've ended up with VAR examining marginal decisions five times a match.

And of course marginal decisions are in the eye of the beholder, our penalty against Forest was universally a foul in our eyes, universally not in their eyes. Same with the Fulham elbow, largely the same for Milner's foul against Chelsea.

There is no cut off for what is clear and obvious and what isn't.

I would keep automated offsides with a degree of error built in, so that a shoulder or toe offside is considered level. And would keep goal-line technology. Both those things are at least objective and not subjective. And the rest? Probably bin it, or come up with some scheme that reduces the interference of VAR - maybe (i) a challenge system where the managers can ask the ref to look again (so no interference from the VAR room) - maybe (ii) a protocol where the ref independently reviews every goal and every penalty or red card he gives, just to be sure (and possibly also every major call he isn't sure about) - again its his review with no outside influence - or maybe (iii) a panel of VAR refs who each vote independently of each other whether a decision should be overturned, requiring a unanimous decision and with at least one ordered to give benefit of doubt to the on field decision.

At the least (i) and (ii) would definitely have overturned the Henry goal for France.

 

[BN41Albion]

It’s not. It works well on the continent

No it doesn't

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Exactly - PGMOL have made a completely perverse interpretation of 'clear and obvious'. If a toenail (or any other irrelevant body part of your choice) appears to be a clearly and obviously a couple of millimetres off side after a minute or two looking at stills and slow-mos, and drawing imaginary lines (not very well) it might be, to the prats at PGMOL, clearly and obviously off-side - but if it wasn't given, it is never, never, ever, a clear and obvious MISTAKE.

Offside has nothing to do with clear and obvious, it’s been clarified so many times it’s factul and not subjective.

Saying that, it’s still shit.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Hard to give you a thumbs up and a laugh emoji at the same time. I suspect we may be (after some flirting, flouncing and fluffing) violently agreeing again.

That that would happen? Who knew?

AGAIN?

 

[TomandJerry]

A question to everyone saying VAR is here to stay..

Surely if 14 PL clubs vote to remove it, then it's gone?

 

[GT49er]

Offside has nothing to do with clear and obvious, it’s been clarified so many times it’s factul and not subjective.

Saying that, it’s still shit.

Yes, but if it takes three minutes to decide whether that toenail is off-side, then it's not a clear and obvious ERROR. VAR should be for howlers, not millimetres.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Yes, but if it takes three minutes to decide whether that toenail is off-side, then it's not a clear and obvious ERROR. VAR should be for howlers, not millimetres.

Off side was brought in to stop goal hanging, not for a toe nail being off side 3 phases of play earlier.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

This is basically the same VAR thread which has popped up with the same arguments after every weekend of action over the last few weeks.

The difference which needs to be discussed is that senior people with clout, and I believe Lineker has clout, are now breaking the what once seemed like some sort of omerta and coming out and saying it.

This could be just the utterings of one wacky, lefty football celeb, or it could empower a tsunami of those within the game to call for it's abolition

 

[Si Gull]

This is basically the same VAR thread which has popped up with the same arguments after every weekend of action over the last few weeks.

The difference which needs to be discussed is that senior people with clout, and I believe Lineker has clout, are now breaking the what once seemed like some sort of omerta and coming out and saying it.

This could be just the utterings of one wacky, lefty football celeb, or it could empower a tsunami of those within the game to call for it's abolition

Let's hope it's the latter but I won't be holding my breath just yet.

 

[Sirnormangall]

Offside has nothing to do with clear and obvious, it’s been clarified so many times it’s factul and not subjective.

Saying that, it’s still shit.

That’s true, but we still experience them getting that wrong by eg. Drawing the line incorrectly

 

[Questions]

Var may be right even 95% of the time and it will still be disliked.

 

[Questions]

I think clear and obvious also lends itself to quick decision ....

Never does that phrase sound more ambiguous than when applied to VAR

 

[HeaviestTed]

I want var to stay where decisions go in our favour.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Never does that phrase sound more ambiguous than when applied to VAR

agreed but its not VAR its the officials and the officials just seem to want it not to work...