[Football] I don't like football any more.

[Brovion]

With cricket though, as the game is spread out over at least a whole day, reviews don't really delay the game that much. I accept VAR is coming in to football and we'll all eventually get used to it, but I think the days when the game finishes at 4.50pm (assuming a 3pm kick off) will be a thing of the past.

Also when a goal is scored how far back will VAR go in the build up to that goal to check for a possible foul or infringement in the build up, 10 seconds, 30 seconds, up to the point the ball last went dead?

Good question. In the Scotland game, as well as reviewing the Argentinian penalty they were apparently also going to see if there had been an offside in the build-up, thus negating the penalty claim. How far back should the review go?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The really crazy one is in athletics, where the sensors in the blocks are calibrated to a thousandth of a second and remember Ussain bolt being disqualified in the world championships when he was seen to react a tiny fraction of a second before the gun....the “ go on the B of bang! “

The ASC system we use, is pretty foolproof. It measures the force / thrust, imparted by the athlete into the starting block, (during a window, from 0.3sec before the start signal, to 0.7sec after the start signal) and checks that against the precise moment of the start. If it is (even 0.001 secs) before the start, they are rightly disqualified. The rules of the sport don't allow you to anticipate / guess the start - you are supposed to react TO it.

The system displays a graph for each lane, with the forces exerted, against the timebase - any false start is very clear.

 

[LamieRobertson]

With cricket though, as the game is spread out over at least a whole day, reviews don't really delay the game that much. I accept VAR is coming in to football and we'll all eventually get used to it, but I think the days when the game finishes at 4.50pm (assuming a 3pm kick off) will be a thing of the past.

Also when a goal is scored how far back will VAR go in the build up to that goal to check for a possible foul or infringement in the build up, 10 seconds, 30 seconds, up to the point the ball last went dead?

Getting that train or buss for a midweek game could get tricker

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I've not seen any of the Copa. But from what you say, it would seem the VAR interpretation of handball in the Copa is completely different to how its being interpreted in the womens World Cup.

That wasn't my point. It was that the 'VAR interpretation of handball' was completely different in each of two Copa matches on the same night...!

 

[Brovion]

I've not seen any of the Copa. But from what you say, it would seem the VAR interpretation of handball in the Copa is completely different to how its being interpreted in the womens World Cup.

I wonder which version of the rule they'll be using in the Premier League next season.

As we suspected it's not being applied consistently. Also, whenever they show the VAR officials there's about five of them all staring at the TV screens. Apart from 'clear and obvious' (which is all it should be used for) they're NEVER going to agree, like the pundits never agree in the studio. (Former forwards always say it's a pen, defenders disagree). I bet half the VAR delays are whilst the VAR officials argue amongst themselves. If there's any disagreement they should let it pass and let the decision on the field of play stand.

 

[amexer]

Have just seen Argentina penalty. A joke. It never crossed any player or spectators mind that it was a penalty. Just about to take corner and somebody looking at a TV monitor makes a decision. Does anybody think that was spotting a clear and obvious error.

 

[Easy 10]

That wasn't my point. It was that the 'VAR interpretation of handball' was completely different in each of two Copa matches on the same night...!

Well, at least with VAR we'll finally get that consistency we all wanted...

 

[jabba]

Wait until a 10-10 penalty shoot-out. It will take as long as the game.

 

[Brovion]

No. The ref will then start using VAR as a crutch, instead of trusting his own judgement. In big, high-pressure games it would be human nature to check every big call - we'd end up with even MORE time-consuming delays.

The theory of VAR is sound. The referee never calls for a review. He just referees the game as he normally would, makes all the decisions as usual, but VAR only gets involved if (in the opinion of the VAR) the ref has made a "clear and obvious error". I don't have a problem with that per-sé.

Where its falling down is that its not being used to correct clear and obvious errors - its being used for almost every minor infringement if its led to a goal or a potential penalty. We're getting very marginal and debatable incidents being reviewed, in a quest for "perfection". This was not what it was supposed to have been brought in for, but it was absolutely inevitable and was predicted by many.

VAR has and will fundamentally change the game we know, and not for the better IMO.

Agreed. Criticising VAR is nothing to do with being a Luddite (we've embraced goalline technology because the application is simple and 100% consistent), it's because in its current implementation it's a ****ing shambles and is ruining the game.

No doubt it will eventually settle down, at least I bloody hope so.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The part about the goalkeeping at penalties thing that has the biggest potential, for it all to descend into VARCE, is that when the keeper moves a foot off the line, the retake is accompanied by an unnecessary yellow card. If the Scotland keeper had saved the retake, and replays showed again that she's 6 inches forward, they've got to be consistent - that's a red, and another retake with an outfield player (or sub keeper) in goal.

In a shoot-out it could be utter madness. Two saves - two tiny encroachments - two yellows = outfield player in goal for the rest of it.

They will absolutely need to ditch the yellow. A retake is definitely a significant enough punishment for the offence.

 

[Easy 10]

Agreed. Criticising VAR is nothing to do with being a Luddite (we've embraced goalline technology because the application is simple and 100% consistent), it's because in its current implementation it's a ****ing shambles and is ruining the game.

No doubt it will eventually settle down, at least I bloody hope so.

The nature of VAR means there will always be controversy and duff calls, because its still simply down to human interpretation.

Which is what we had in the first place before it was ever brought in, so I don't really see the point. You're just swapping one controversy for another, with the caveat that when they f**k it up now, its even MORE unbelievable, because they've had the benefit of multiple replays from all angles and still made a questionable call. The leeway we (sometimes) gave officials if they called it wrong was always understandable to an extent, because they had one look at in, in real time. But that has now disappeared. Now they can review it, we expect them to get it spot on.

But in so many incidents, spot on simply doesn't exist. It'll get a lot of things right of course, and some miscarriages of justice will be corrected. But we are paying a high price for it, particularly when we score. All eyes will be on the ref. Its what I'm looking for already.

 

[Simster]

I've been pro VAR but unless the authorities sort out the shambles we saw in both mentioned high profile games in the last few hours, I won't no part of it either. They need to be VERY clear about it's use, it is getting ridiculous.

 

[Triggaaar]

I don't like football any more.

It sounds as though this all boils down to one poor VAR decision, which took too long to make.

 

[jamie (not that one)]

I don't really understand why people get put off football by player wages. As long as they're putting the effort in on the pitch, why does it matter?

VAR, on the other hand, is a threat to the game. There should be rules on it, such as the captain of each team is the only person allowed to ask for VAR, and they lose the option if they are wrong once or twice

I really don't have a problem with wages in the game. Like in any industry, those who are near the top of their sector earn the most except these guys do it while sacrificing a lot.

My main beef with football and money at the moment is the incredible amounts being dished out to agents which could be passed on as savings to the fans. If I were a player and I found out I could've gone to Atletico Madrid but ended up at Everton because they paid my agent more, I'd batter the guy representing me. The fact that clubs have to pay our millions upon millions to a guy who negotiates deals for players is nothing short of extortion and the fans could be paying 20 quid to see a game rather than 50+ if clubs weren't shelling out millions needlessly per season.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Hate it.

Hate it hate it hate it.

Football SIMPLY isn't structured for it. Football is not a game of natural phases. It is too free flowing.

The sports where it works are BRILLIANT. Rugby, Cricket, Tennis. The games have natural stopping points and CLEAR yes, no decisions.

Did it hit the bat, was the ball grounded, was it passed forward. These are all simple questions and are asked after a natural stoppage in play.

In football we are having the ball WHACKED at someone from 5 yards away, game carrying on and then the ref stopping it mid-flow....looking at a screen and watching SO MANY slowed down replays of something which happened in a split second. You can make anything look deliberate if you do that. And THEN because they had to stop play, I genuinely feel it is biased into awarding the pen, otherwise you've stopped it for nothing.

I saw one the other day (nations league semi) where the swiss were tackled in the box....Portugal went the other end, got a pen..........which the ref then reversed and gave a pen to Switzerland for the first foul. Absolute NONSENSE.

And now we have re-taken penalties (even if they were missed without the keeper making a save) because the keeper has EDGED forward.

I hate it. I actually DON'T CARE if it's getting the decision right (which I don't think it is), it's ruining what flow remained in the modern game. The VERY FACT that we can't even TRULY celebrate a goal now for fear that it won't count is, in itself, MADNESS.

Goal line technology is wonderful. It's a factual statement. Did it cross the line, yes or no. We know instantly and the game is only stopped if it did indeed cross the line. VAR however, is still reliant on opinion and is RUBBISH.

 

[Perkino]

No. The ref will then start using VAR as a crutch, instead of trusting his own judgement. In big, high-pressure games it would be human nature to check every big call - we'd end up with even MORE time-consuming delays.

The theory of VAR is sound. The referee never calls for a review. He just referees the game as he normally would, makes all the decisions as usual, but VAR only gets involved if (in the opinion of the VAR) the ref has made a "clear and obvious error". I don't have a problem with that per-sé.

Where its falling down is that its not being used to correct clear and obvious errors - its being used for almost every minor infringement if its led to a goal or a potential penalty. We're getting very marginal and debatable incidents being reviewed, in a quest for "perfection". This was not what it was supposed to have been brought in for, but it was absolutely inevitable and was predicted by many.

VAR has and will fundamentally change the game we know, and not for the better IMO.

It's how they use it in Rugby, to check if a try should be ruled out or if a player needs some time in the sin bin. Everything else is done by the ref on the pitch and he only uses VAR if he is uncertain. I think VAR would work better if it were a tool the ref had to take a closer look if he felt like he needed to otherwise play continues as normal. what I don't like is now a ref somewhere else is making decisions overruling the ref on the pitch and slowing up the play

 

[the right footed denilson]

Under the current rules, smart players will actively be looking to scoop the ball onto an arm. Instant appeal, more likely than not a pen awarded. Its happening time and time again in this womens World Cup. The precedent is well and truly set now. Inadvertent handballs will account for a LOT of goals.

If it's implemented how it sounds it will be, next season there is gonna be games with 3, 4, even 5 pens. And agree- it also means skilful players will be looking to hit defenders with the ball...basically the new diving. Great.

As an aside, do we know how many more/less goals we'd have scored/conceded last season if VAR was in place?

 

[Nixonator]

We're going to get a whole load of goals ruled out for minor, marginal infringements and someones pubes being offside.

We're going to get a shedload more penalties awarded for completely inadvertent handballs.

Now more than ever, the officials will dictate the final scoreline of the game.

Welcome to VAR, folks.

This. People think it's going to even things up which makes me chuckle.

Just offers more means to exploit a bunch of nameless people in a studio accountable to nobody.

I die a bit inside when the most marginal of offsides are called by VAR and it ends up being a matter of milimeters. It's just not how the game is meant to be played and certainly not the one we've come to love.

Still, some people are loving this new-found accuracy of decision making, mostly sky/bt sports fans in my experience. I've always made the case that the cost would be high. We'll see.

 

[Eric Youngs Contact Lense]

The part about the goalkeeping at penalties thing that has the biggest potential, for it all to descend into VARCE, is that when the keeper moves a foot off the line, the retake is accompanied by an unnecessary yellow card. If the Scotland keeper had saved the retake, and replays showed again that she's 6 inches forward, they've got to be consistent - that's a red, and another retake with an outfield player (or sub keeper) in goal.

In a shoot-out it could be utter madness. Two saves - two tiny encroachments - two yellows = outfield player in goal for the rest of it.

They will absolutely need to ditch the yellow. A retake is definitely a significant enough punishment for the offence.

Absolutely.

 

[the right footed denilson]

I die a bit inside when the most marginal of offsides are called by VAR and it ends up being a matter of milimeters. It's just not how the game is meant to be played and certainly not the one we've come to love.

And then they all celebrate how well it's working! Soulless.