[Football] I don't like football any more.

[Mellotron]

I thought that with jesse’s goal in the nations thing. He was given offside by var by the width of a bootlace. So what is the plus or minus range of where the technology is calibrated to? Even speed limit cameras are calibrated to plus or minus 2.

Are they that confident that they don’t need to put a range on it?

Perfect example. That was NOT a clear and obvious error by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Perfect example. That was NOT a clear and obvious error by any stretch of the imagination.

Exactly.

Close enough that it should never have been referred in the first place. The logical conclusion to goals like that getting referred is that every goal gets looked at and that would absolutely rip the joy out of the game.


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[BLOCK F]

Funnily enough I was recently thinking about football having a 'Glastonbury style' year/whole season off every once in a while. I honestly believe it'd be less missed than you'd think, passions rekindled and all that when it returned. Obviously it wouldn't work for many reasons, but...

A sort of 'very muddy pitch' stopped play for a year!

 

[southstandandy]

Copied from my other post on the changes coming next season due to VAR :

Having seen the Argentina womens VAR penalty re-take last night against Scotland (correct by the letter of the law) I've done a bit of digging regarding last year's Premier League penalties awarded.

Apparently of the 103 given in the Premier League last season, under the new VAR rules (keeper not having 1 foot on or above the line, or encroachment by an attacking player at the point of the kick being taken), 93 of them would have to have been re-taken! Only 10 were legitimate if the rules imposed this coming season were to be have been used last season!

I suspect we are going to see large numbers retaken this season due to either the keeper moving and/or player encroachment (which has rarely ever been punished before, and apparently is going to be looked at by VAR upon each penalty given).

It's going to be a whole new ball game next season methinks.

 

[Easy 10]

We're going to get a whole load of goals ruled out for minor, marginal infringements and someones pubes being offside.

We're going to get a shedload more penalties awarded for completely inadvertent handballs.

Now more than ever, the officials will dictate the final scoreline of the game.

Welcome to VAR, folks.

 

[portlock seagull]

Football. The sport that ate itself.

 

[Albion my Albion]

I would if it was an option.

I knew that there was a bug getting in-----the ear about you.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Well, that might be an exaggeration but it's getting a bit like that.

I've just been watching a fairly mediocre game between Argentina and Paraguay. Not a great game but that isn't what got to me. I just don't like the way the game is being messed about with.

With Paraguay winning 1-0 five minutes after half-time, Aguerro pulls the ball back to Martinez and the Argie gets off a shot which hits the bar. The rebound comes to Messi, whose shot is well saved by the goalie, who pushes it round the post for a corner.

I timed what happened next. We have 58 seconds of Messi lining up to take the corner and the ref sorting out the players pushing in the box as per usual at a corner. After the 58 seconds, the ref sticks his finger in his ear and indicates to Messi to wait on the corner. No-one seems to have a clue what is going on, certainly not the commentator or the crowd, who are whistling. But the ref is clearly talking to the VAR folks.

Then, 2 minutes and 7 seconds after the shot, the ref indicates he's going to look at the VAR screen.

A minute later, he comes back and signals penalty to the Argies and gives a yellow card to a defender for handball. Slow motion replays are highly inconclusive in my view. If the shot from Martinez did brush his arm it caused no spin on the ball as far as I could see,so must have been the tiniest of touches.

Then, more than five minutes after the incident, Messi steps up and scores the penalty he never even appealed for.

To add to my discontent, a few minutes later, a Paraguay forward was chopped down in the box and a penalty was given without need for VAR. Yet there was no yellow card to the offender. So you get a yellow card for a handball no-one saw and which certainly was in no way deliberate, but no card for a deliberate foul in the penalty area. Makes no sense to me.

The Paraguay penalty is then well-saved by the Argie goalie, but I half expected VAR to announce a few minutes later that the goalie's heel was 2mm off the line when the ball was kicked - didn't happen.

What has happened to football? It used to be common sense and it was clear to everyone what was going on. Not any more. This season is going to be horrible, thanks to VAR.

Calm down, dear. This is always what happens when new rules bed in.

I was a bit surprised when the Scottish women had a penalty save recalled yesterday, but tell me if you haven't been moaning for 40 years about keepers coming off their line when a pen is taken? Progress, innit.

There is of course the possibility that, as with so many things as one grows older (going for a spin on the mountain bike, holiday travel, the provocative swish of a pleated skirt) you are simply getting a bit too old for all this malarkey

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

We're going to get a whole load of goals ruled out for minor, marginal infringements and someones pubes being offside.

We're going to get a shedload more penalties awarded for completely inadvertent handballs.

Now more than ever, the officials will dictate the final scoreline of the game.

Welcome to VAR, folks.

Teams that park the bus will have two or three times the amount of penalties given against them, that accidental bounce up on a defenders arm? Stonewall pen now.

 

[Dave the OAP]

It’s really interesting for those of us who watch a lot of cricket on the box too.

I don’t know if anyone notices but every wicket is actually reviewed, even the obvious ones. The first thing they check for ( and if it is a bowled or caught, that is it) is that the bowler has not bowled a no ball. There has been players called back where a bowler has overstepped, or stepped outside the crease. Yes we are all used to Hawkeye in all sorts of sports and this is now the norm.

The really crazy one is in athletics, where the sensors in the blocks are calibrated to a thousandth of a second and remember Ussain bolt being disqualified in the world championships when he was seen to react a tiny fraction of a second before the gun....the “ go on the B of bang! “

I think all sport is being taken over by technology...also remember in the open golf some armchair sneak spotted someone touching the ball whilst setting up for a putt...which when played back was by a millionth of a millimetre and the ball moved microscopically. I can’t remember if he was disqualified but I know he was charged with signing for an incorrect score!

The thing was as people has said, they had to do stuff like stop wrestling in the box, correct penalties where the player actually touches the ball in a challenge, or fouls outside the box where they fall in the box...that sort of thing....trouble is now as with lots of things they have taken it to the extremes and again this is really for the armchair fans, not the fans in the stadiums!

 

[Justice]

We will all find out first-hand next season how VAR is going to affect the state of top flight football in this country.
Whilst I think it's works well in many situations, I also feel it's taken a lot of the drama from the moment to moment goings on during a match. Every time a goal is scored will now be tinged with a sense of 'will it' 'wont it' be given as we wait for VAR decisions to be verified......
It's' going to be interesting and I'm sure they'll be some pure moments of elation which are then overruled by officials. I'm not a fan of this but how else can it be done? They need to speed up the checking process that's for sure.

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In our case if the semi final was anything to go by the refs will ignore the playback option they have against the top six and keep with their original decision.

 

[brightn'ove]

Exactly.

Close enough that it should never have been referred in the first place. The logical conclusion to goals like that getting referred is that every goal gets looked at and that would absolutely rip the joy out of the game.


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All goals are reviewed for offside under VAR, that was under its original remit a few years ago.

 

[Gritt23]

Jesus wept.

VAR just reinforces the rules.

You bunch of luddites!


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There is a lot of truth in this, and a lot of the problems are around the woolly rule making or enforcement we've seen and accepted in football.

How many times have we all complained about a non-penalty that "anywhere else on the pitch, THAT is a foul, and a free-kick." Or complaints about what is and isn't handball, with the "law" differing from one analysts to another about "ball to hand" or "intent" or "gaining an advantage". the changes to the offside law have left us all guessing at what is and isn't "interfering". The same with encroachment at penalties, and how much leeway a keeper is sometimes given to come off his/her line before the penalty is struck. Pre-VAR everyone could hide behind the view the ref had of an incident, and just ended up with the old Wenger "he didn't see it clearly" but now you do see it clearly, and we are left with the fact that the rule-makers have not actually done a very good job. Now we have a clear view, the laws aren't actually standing up very well to scrutiny.

 

[Easy 10]

Teams that park the bus will have two or three times the amount of penalties given against them, that accidental bounce up on a defenders arm? Stonewall pen now.

Under the current rules, smart players will actively be looking to scoop the ball onto an arm. Instant appeal, more likely than not a pen awarded. Its happening time and time again in this womens World Cup. The precedent is well and truly set now. Inadvertent handballs will account for a LOT of goals.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Under the current rules, smart players will actively be looking to scoop the ball onto an arm. Instant appeal, more likely than not a pen awarded. Its happening time and time again in this womens World Cup. The precedent is well and truly set now. Inadvertent handballs will account for a LOT of goals.

Tis a joke, the handball rule was fine before, everything looks like a pen once you slow it down.

Well they will, unless VAR spots the shoe lace of an attacker in the box.

 

[southstandandy]

It’s really interesting for those of us who watch a lot of cricket on the box too.

I don’t know if anyone notices but every wicket is actually reviewed, even the obvious ones. The first thing they check for ( and if it is a bowled or caught, that is it) is that the bowler has not bowled a no ball. There has been players called back where a bowler has overstepped, or stepped outside the crease. Yes we are all used to Hawkeye in all sorts of sports and this is now the norm.

The really crazy one is in athletics, where the sensors in the blocks are calibrated to a thousandth of a second and remember Ussain bolt being disqualified in the world championships when he was seen to react a tiny fraction of a second before the gun....the “ go on the B of bang! “

I think all sport is being taken over by technology...also remember in the open golf some armchair sneak spotted someone touching the ball whilst setting up for a putt...which when played back was by a millionth of a millimetre and the ball moved microscopically. I can’t remember if he was disqualified but I know he was charged with signing for an incorrect score!

The thing was as people has said, they had to do stuff like stop wrestling in the box, correct penalties where the player actually touches the ball in a challenge, or fouls outside the box where they fall in the box...that sort of thing....trouble is now as with lots of things they have taken it to the extremes and again this is really for the armchair fans, not the fans in the stadiums!

With cricket though, as the game is spread out over at least a whole day, reviews don't really delay the game that much. I accept VAR is coming in to football and we'll all eventually get used to it, but I think the days when the game finishes at 4.50pm (assuming a 3pm kick off) will be a thing of the past.

Also when a goal is scored how far back will VAR go in the build up to that goal to check for a possible foul or infringement in the build up, 10 seconds, 30 seconds, up to the point the ball last went dead?

 

[Perkino]

I personally think that the ref should decide if he wants VAR to review something in a case where he is in doubt of what happened or he suspected a handball and wants clarification. This nonsense that someone with a camera can dictate to the ref is madness, the ref should have to request a 2nd opinion

 

[Easy 10]

I personally think that the ref should decide if he wants VAR to review something in a case where he is in doubt of what happened or he suspected a handball and wants clarification. This nonsense that someone with a camera can dictate to the ref is madness, the ref should have to request a 2nd opinion

No. The ref will then start using VAR as a crutch, instead of trusting his own judgement. In big, high-pressure games it would be human nature to check every big call - we'd end up with even MORE time-consuming delays.

The theory of VAR is sound. The referee never calls for a review. He just referees the game as he normally would, makes all the decisions as usual, but VAR only gets involved if (in the opinion of the VAR) the ref has made a "clear and obvious error". I don't have a problem with that per-sé.

Where its falling down is that its not being used to correct clear and obvious errors - its being used for almost every minor infringement if its led to a goal or a potential penalty. We're getting very marginal and debatable incidents being reviewed, in a quest for "perfection". This was not what it was supposed to have been brought in for, but it was absolutely inevitable and was predicted by many.

VAR has and will fundamentally change the game we know, and not for the better IMO.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Well, that might be an exaggeration but it's getting a bit like that.

I've just been watching a fairly mediocre game between Argentina and Paraguay. Not a great game but that isn't what got to me. I just don't like the way the game is being messed about with.

With Paraguay winning 1-0 five minutes after half-time, Aguerro pulls the ball back to Martinez and the Argie gets off a shot which hits the bar. The rebound comes to Messi, whose shot is well saved by the goalie, who pushes it round the post for a corner.

I timed what happened next. We have 58 seconds of Messi lining up to take the corner and the ref sorting out the players pushing in the box as per usual at a corner. After the 58 seconds, the ref sticks his finger in his ear and indicates to Messi to wait on the corner. No-one seems to have a clue what is going on, certainly not the commentator or the crowd, who are whistling. But the ref is clearly talking to the VAR folks.

Then, 2 minutes and 7 seconds after the shot, the ref indicates he's going to look at the VAR screen.

A minute later, he comes back and signals penalty to the Argies and gives a yellow card to a defender for handball. Slow motion replays are highly inconclusive in my view. If the shot from Martinez did brush his arm it caused no spin on the ball as far as I could see,so must have been the tiniest of touches.
.

And yet in the earlier Copa match, there were 2 VAR checks for Qatar 'handballs' (one blocking a cross with his arm above his head, and one where a defender launched himself Duffy-style in front of a shot) and NEITHER were given

 

[Easy 10]

And yet in the earlier Copa match, there were 2 VAR checks for Qatar 'handballs' (one blocking a cross with his arm above his head, and one where a defender launched himself Duffy-style in front of a shot) and NEITHER were given

I've not seen any of the Copa. But from what you say, it would seem the VAR interpretation of handball in the Copa is completely different to how its being interpreted in the womens World Cup.

I wonder which version of the rule they'll be using in the Premier League next season.