[Albion] Hughton supporters

[NooBHA]

What has that got to do with our current situation? As a club we bare no resemblance to previous eras, we are in the top 30 richest clubs in the world, but does our quality of play reflect that?

If we stay up, Chris has done his job. But if he remains, things must change, a shake up is needed both in the playing and the coaching staff.

I don't think Tony will get rid, he proved with Hyypia that he will stay loyal to his managers. So I hope we add a dedicated attacking coach to give balance to our defensive coaching team.

Please don't let the truth get in the way of your argument. That is an absolutely nonsensical statement

 

[Steve in Japan]

There are a large number of posters on this tread for whom we have not yet reached rock bottom in terms of performances. I am left wondering quite how poor we need to be to convince them that some sort of change is required? If the matches against Cardiff and Bournemouth didn't do it, I am not sure anything will. Not even the horrific first half against NUFC.

Lovely bloke, very grateful for what he's done, but claiming he is the best possible, indeed our only, option is a bit odd.

 

[Bold Seagull]

The truth that a lot of people don't seem to like is that the Premier League is NOT the "greatest league in the World" it's actually shit. The top teams are far too good for most of us to compete with, far too many games have one team with 70%+ possession while the other teams clings on for their life behind a parked bus, and the greatest possible achievement for most is to become a team that lives out a life in mid-table obscurity. This is the promised land, apparently. Blame CH for this all you want, but sadly it;s the reality of the Premier League.

I do agree with you, but it's not really all that different to how it was really in a lot of ways. Since 1992 there have been 6 different winners of the PL. The preceding 30 years of the football league there were 8 different winners. No one has retained the trophy for nearly a decade.
Our top flight record previously:
79/80 P42 W11 D15 L16
80/81 P42 W14 D7 L21
81/82 P42 W13 D13 L16
82/83 P42 W9 D13 L20

So our win percentage was 28%.
Our current PL win percentage = 24%. Had we had 3 more wins of our 74 PL games and we'd have the same win percentage as our last spell in the top flight. Fine margins by comparison really.

Top flight has always been a struggle for smaller clubs. That is what playing at the highest possible level is like. It is what the Plymouth's and Burton's experience when they hit the Championship etc. It's not just the reality of the PL, its the reality of any club reaching a level that is above its traditional means.

 

[chaileyjem]

Please don't let the truth get in the way of your argument. That is an absolutely nonsensical statement

the Deloitte Football Money League compiles this list based on revenue only.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deloitte_Football_Money_League#2019

Brighton were 29th in 2017/18. Not sure one years income is the only factor to determine "richness" given our outgoings, wages, amortisation, debts but its one way of looking it and illustrates the staggering TV income of the EFL.

 

[chaileyjem]

I loved the Championship, it's probably the most competitive football there is. No one parks the bus.
.

sometimes.

 

[Gritt23]

I do agree with you, but it's not really all that different to how it was really in a lot of ways. Since 1992 there have been 6 different winners of the PL. The preceding 30 years of the football league there were 8 different winners. No one has retained the trophy for nearly a decade.
Our top flight record previously:
79/80 P42 W11 D15 L16
80/81 P42 W14 D7 L21
81/82 P42 W13 D13 L16
82/83 P42 W9 D13 L20

So our win percentage was 28%.
Our current PL win percentage = 24%. Had we had 3 more wins of our 74 PL games and we'd have the same win percentage as our last spell in the top flight. Fine margins by comparison really.

Top flight has always been a struggle for smaller clubs. That is what playing at the highest possible level is like. It is what the Plymouth's and Burton's experience when they hit the Championship etc. It's not just the reality of the PL, its the reality of any club reaching a level that is above its traditional means.

If you want stats, how about this one:

Games where one team has 70% or more possession in a game.
Last 2 seasons we've seen 60+ games each season dominated to that degree. That's 1 game in 6.
In the first 3 years of OPTA stats (about 15 years ago) there were just 3 games, 1 per season rather than one game in 6.

That's how it has changed in 15 years.

 

[Bold Seagull]

If you want stats, how about this one:

Games where one team has 70% or more possession in a game.
Last 2 seasons we've seen 60+ games each season dominated to that degree. That's 1 game in 6.
In the first 3 years of OPTA stats (about 15 years ago) there were just 3 games, 1 per season rather than one game in 6.

That's how it has changed in 15 years.

Wow, interesting stats. I wonder how big a factor to that is the quality of the pitches throughout the season. 24hr infra-lighting, hybrid grass weaves and mixes have made playing football far easier for top quality players.

 

[Bold Seagull]

sometimes.

I keep going back to that season when people harp on this being the worse they remember. Perhaps they were asleep through 14/15!?

 

[LamieRobertson]

I loved the Championship, it's probably the most competitive football there is. No one parks the bus.

The Premier league was a nice novelty, but it's dull as hell when the team I love refuses to play football.

Let’s not pretend that there is a guarantee that life in the championship is a bed of roses....and lets remember that Tony Bloom subsidised a lot of our enjoyment an d that couldn’t continue for ever....lets also remember that this is only our second season and perhaps a little more patience is required...lets also remember that other clubs also resort to your statement of not playing football....well it is football just not what you like

 

[Justice]

It’s only our second season in the PL if we survive mission accomplished, to add WTF is the point of going back to the Championship after years of hard work trying to get out of it Some of you are nuts.

 

[LamieRobertson]

There are a large number of posters on this tread for whom we have not yet reached rock bottom in terms of performances. I am left wondering quite how poor we need to be to convince them that some sort of change is required? If the matches against Cardiff and Bournemouth didn't do it, I am not sure anything will. Not even the horrific first half against NUFC.

Lovely bloke, very grateful for what he's done, but claiming he is the best possible, indeed our only, option is a bit odd.

Perhaps we understand a little more that change doesn’t always produce what you desire ...and that football is not always an upward curve

 

[Gritt23]

Wow, interesting stats. I wonder how big a factor to that is the quality of the pitches throughout the season. 24hr infra-lighting, hybrid grass weaves and mixes have made playing football far easier for top quality players.

Yeah, that probably has been a factor, as has the demise of tackling. A team knocks the ball around now, and generally you get it back if you intercept, but watch a game from 15 years a go and tackles are flying in, so the ball is bouncing around more.

But the over-riding difference is the sheer dominance of the top teams, the rest of us just can't get close.

 

[Steve in Japan]

Perhaps we understand a little more that change doesn’t always produce what you desire ...and that football is not always an upward curve

Very zen-like. Although a bit unambitious, if I'm being honest.

 

[Gritt23]

Wow, interesting stats. I wonder how big a factor to that is the quality of the pitches throughout the season. 24hr infra-lighting, hybrid grass weaves and mixes have made playing football far easier for top quality players.

Another stat for you is that if Liverpool win their last two games this season, that will take them to 30 wins, which is the most (joint with 1978-79 season) wins they've ever had in a single season, and Man City will almost certainly pip them!

More than in the dominant years of the 70/80's when (for those of my generation) it felt like no-one got anywhere near them. Exclude the bizarre 1980-81 season when they fell to 5th, and between 1972-73 and 1990-91 they finished 1st or 2nd EVERY year, that was a dominant team! But in a 42 game season (not 38!) they won on average, just under 24 games a season. 30 in 78-79, but otherwise 26 wins in 42 games was as dominant as they ever were.

This year they win 30 in 38, and finish 2nd! What used to be dominance, winning 25 games in 42 (just under 60% of your games, would now be (22-23 wins) scrapping into top 4 for a CL spot.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Many people were very happy with the team before kick off.
Clearly the idea was to have pace on the left and creativity on the right with 2 strikers providing an attacking threat.
Beckham was slow as anything but I'm pretty sure playing him on the right didn't nullify an attacking threat.
Given the amount of chances that Gross created from that position in Germany I don't think it was a bad idea.
To be honest I also don't think playing Gross there was why we were so poor. I think it more to do with the fact that the whole team simply played awful and were backing off for the whole 45 minutes.

Beckham played in a team that played much higher up the pitch than us. You can be a wide player and be slow if you're in a team that dominates games. We aren't that team. It's a suicidal move that makes us even more predictable.

I think it was a large part of the issue. If you hamstring one side of the pitch at this level, you're asking for trouble. But we'll agree to disagree.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Very zen-like. Although a bit unambitious, if I'm being honest.

Well...lets always be honest....if you like lets put it in terms you might see unzen like at Southampton and their history of chop and change over the last three years.
And the rock bottom you mention..no where near it in all honesty

 

[Seasidesage]

I don't think anyone with half a brain doubts Hughton as a manager? I think where we disagree is over what we do now? What we cannot do for me at least is assume we will keep getting away with surviving with him as manager and with this budget because performances and results are in decline that is clear. So the question is do we make a change if and obviously only if we can recruit someone with a different philosophy a decent track record who might offer a way forward?

Alternatively, does TB choose to loosen the purse strings? If so Hughton should possibly get the chance to see what he can do with the new budget but even then I would like to see changes to the backroom staff. It's become a bit stale and the level of results and performances must be concerning the board as much as the fans?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Another stat for you is that if Liverpool win their last two games this season, that will take them to 30 wins, which is the most (joint with 1978-79 season) wins they've ever had in a single season, and Man City will almost certainly pip them!

More than in the dominant years of the 70/80's when (for those of my generation) it felt like no-one got anywhere near them. Exclude the bizarre 1980-81 season when they fell to 5th, and between 1972-73 and 1990-91 they finished 1st or 2nd EVERY year, that was a dominant team! But in a 42 game season (not 38!) they won on average, just under 24 games a season. 30 in 78-79, but otherwise 26 wins in 42 games was as dominant as they ever were.

This year they win 30 in 38, and finish 2nd! What used to be dominance, winning 25 games in 42 (just under 60% of your games, would now be (22-23 wins) scrapping into top 4 for a CL spot.

When you look at it like that it is astounding, and to think Leicester only won it 3 years ago with 23 wins.

Interesting to know how the possession stats relate to say La Liga or the Bundesliga (not expecting you to hunt these out). Whether the game as a whole is evolving in similar ways, or whether specifically the PL.

You almost have to feel sorry for Liverpool this season.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

The Man Utd reference explains that just because we can attract a better calibre of manager, doesn't mean we get one. I think we have much further to fall with a bad appointment than we have the ability to rise with a better appointment, and the odds are that we will appoint worse.

It's been a day since I asked the question and no-one has even attempted to answer my question .... name 3 better managers we've EVER had?

That's because your question is stupid, nonsensical and has absolutely no reference to the future. Hughton has done an excellent job, but that doesn't mean he is now.

You think we have further to fall and you have every right to that opinion. Like I said with @El_Presidente, none of us have any idea what the impact of a manager change is. It's 50/50 ultimately. But I like to think that a sensible managerial change would lead to better football, more improvement in our players etc.

 

[Gritt23]

That's because your question is stupid, nonsensical and has absolutely no reference to the future. Hughton has done an excellent job, but that doesn't mean he is now.

You think we have further to fall and you have every right to that opinion. Like I said with @El_Presidente, none of us have any idea what the impact of a manager change is. It's 50/50 ultimately. But I like to think that a sensible managerial change would lead to better football, more improvement in our players etc.

Past experience is the only basis we have for predicting the future, and the past experiences tell me that we have rarely seen managers come our way that are better than the one we have now. My "stupid" (don't appreciate that) question merely demonstrates that fact, as does everyone's inability to answer it.

I'd love to know where you "50/50" comes from in terms of whether the impact of a managerial change is positive or negative. Or did I misread what you were saying there? I may have done, as I am of course liable to ask stupid questions and presumable be equally stupid at understanding others.